Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 41775 times)

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Offline beaunehead

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #280 on: August 22, 2013, 03:18:36 PM »
Norma...

In those photos of Delorenzo's, there is one with someone "banging" out the dough..though not violently. You can see the finger marks of what he has already done with his finger tips. In the picture he is compressing the dough with his hands rather than "banging".
Stuart


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #281 on: August 22, 2013, 03:39:50 PM »
Norma...

In those photos of Delorenzo's, there is one with someone "banging" out the dough..though not violently. You can see the finger marks of what he has already done with his finger tips. In the picture he is compressing the dough with his hands rather than "banging".

Stuart,

Thanks so much for posting the photo!  I see what you mean that the finger marks can be seen.  Thanks for explaining in the photo what he is doing is compressing the dough with his hands.  Does the next two photos show what he does next and do they always drape the dough over the edge when opening the skin?

Norma
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Offline beaunehead

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #282 on: August 22, 2013, 05:09:52 PM »
Well, I think you've got photos of the whole doughball to ready-for- toppings process at Delorenzo's there. In the first picture Matt, a longtime employee (and good guy) is banging out the pie and sort of stretching it out while compressing it. In the second some is trying to stretch out the compressed pie by hanging over the edge, "lubricated" by bench flour. In the final picture, Sam, the owner (and a very nice and knowledgable  and intereseted in what he does, and modest and earnest guy) is stretching it out before putting it on the peel. That's a pretty fast part of the operation, and seems to be left mainly to the most experienced guys: Matt, Sam and Sam's father, Gary Amico, who ran Hudson St. and who occasionally works at Robbinsville.

Though Sam has said he couldn't twirl a pie without putting his hand through it....he sure seems to be close to putting his fist through it...so that dough must be decently elastic.

I'm hungry for one of their pies.

P.S. I read today that Papa's Pies has opened a quarter of mile from Delorenzo's in Robbinsville and that they are calling the town "Robbinsburg" after Chambersburg. I've only been to Papa's once...and liked it fine, but....not enough to go back, I guess in the ten years or so since I went. I might check it out, particularly if I'm in the area on a Monday when Delorenzo's is closed. (You gotta be careful while on a pizza trek up the east coast: in New Haven, Modern, my favorite, is closed on Mondays, too.)
Stuart

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #283 on: August 22, 2013, 06:29:57 PM »
Well, I think you've got photos of the whole doughball to ready-for- toppings process at Delorenzo's there. In the first picture Matt, a longtime employee (and good guy) is banging out the pie and sort of stretching it out while compressing it. In the second some is trying to stretch out the compressed pie by hanging over the edge, "lubricated" by bench flour. In the final picture, Sam, the owner (and a very nice and knowledgable  and intereseted in what he does, and modest and earnest guy) is stretching it out before putting it on the peel. That's a pretty fast part of the operation, and seems to be left mainly to the most experienced guys: Matt, Sam and Sam's father, Gary Amico, who ran Hudson St. and who occasionally works at Robbinsville.

Though Sam has said he couldn't twirl a pie without putting his hand through it....he sure seems to be close to putting his fist through it...so that dough must be decently elastic.

I'm hungry for one of their pies.

P.S. I read today that Papa's Pies has opened a quarter of mile from Delorenzo's in Robbinsville and that they are calling the town "Robbinsburg" after Chambersburg. I've only been to Papa's once...and liked it fine, but....not enough to go back, I guess in the ten years or so since I went. I might check it out, particularly if I'm in the area on a Monday when Delorenzo's is closed. (You gotta be careful while on a pizza trek up the east coast: in New Haven, Modern, my favorite, is closed on Mondays, too.)

Stuart,

Good to hear that seems like most of the process of opening a dough ball.  I agree that the dough in Sam's hands does look fairly elastic, even though he told you he couldn't twirl a pie without putting his hand though it.  When most of my dough balls are mostly opened I can not twirl a skin either (even though I am terrible with tossing and twirling skins).  I could link you to where a pieman (and video at Mack's) says the same thing that once the dough ball is opened so far it will tear if it tossed and twirled.  I had customers ask me at market if I can toss and twirl skins.  I can if the skin isn't opened too far.  I wonder really how elastic De Lorenzo's dough is.  I might be able to see that once I visit De Lorenzo's.

How far to you live from De Lorenzo's in Robbinville?  I visited Papa's Pizza with Trenton Bill and posted about that, but our pizza was burnt on the bottom crust, so I really can't judge how a Papa's pizza should taste. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #284 on: August 23, 2013, 10:30:01 AM »
Peter,

I couldn't resist  :-D and am going to Trenton Bill's this weekend and we are going to go to De Lorenzo's at the Robbinsville location.  I am going to measure the pizza and also see what size dough balls I can see and anything else that might be helpful.  Do you have any questions you might want me to ask, or any other things I should look for?

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #285 on: August 23, 2013, 11:49:23 AM »
I couldn't resist  :-D and am going to Trenton Bill's this weekend and we are going to go to De Lorenzo's at the Robbinsville location.  I am going to measure the pizza and also see what size dough balls I can see and anything else that might be helpful.  Do you have any questions you might want me to ask, or any other things I should look for?
Norma,

You have become an old pro at extracting information out of people, so you should just do what you always do. Maybe if you tell Sammy, if he is there, that you are a pizza operator, he might open up more out of professional kinship.

It would be nice to nail down the dough ball size matter but dough balls can take on various sizes depending on where they are in the fermentation/temper cycle. So you may see several different sizes.

It would also be interesting to know more about the yeast, if only to rule out certain things, and whether the oil is put in the dough or just dribbled down the side of the mixer bowl to make it easier to remove the dough mass from the mixer. You might also look for signs of semolina/cornmeal in the dough boxes and in the silver colored bowls that are kept at the workstations.

There are bound to be things that you pick up that were not in articles or videos or photos of the De Lorenzo tomato pies. Some of those things might help you with your clone.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 12:03:10 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline kramer73

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #286 on: August 23, 2013, 12:20:05 PM »
Norma! ;D

First Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):         330.56 g  |  11.66 oz | 0.73 lbs
Water (60.1%): 198.66 g  |  7.01 oz | 0.44 lbs
IDY (.25%):         0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):        5.78 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%): 6.74 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):         2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (165.03%):545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08



Yesterday I used thus formulation.  I've been working weird hours this week, so I made it and threw it in the fridge at 2 in the morning.  I took it out around 10:30 the same morning, made a quick sauce with some marzanos from the garden, and took one daughter to swimming.  Got back, opened the dough, and went to town.  I used a mozz/provolone blend and chopped red peppers.  Initially I had the oven at @ 450, but my fresh sauce proved to be too watery and I had to crank it to 500.  I think it was maybe in the given @ 20-25 minutes.  Everyone loved it, and one daughter called the crust "phenomenal".  The crust was slightly thin and crisp, which is exactly what I've been looking for!

Not sure how well I will be able to replicate this due to the change in temp!

Andy
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 12:47:15 PM by kramer73 »

Offline beaunehead

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #287 on: August 23, 2013, 12:32:09 PM »
FWIW...

a couple more pix from that post years ago....looks like flour on the peel and semolina for the balls to proof/rest before the sacrifice....
Stuart

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #288 on: August 23, 2013, 12:57:25 PM »
Stuart,

The idea of using semolina in the dough boxes came from MTPIZZA at Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg44311/topicseen.html#msg44311 . He also maintained that the semolina side of the dough balls was always down.

I have noted quite a bit of confusion on whether semolina or cornmeal is used. That confusion is quite natural and common. Both have similar color and can also be similar in grind. Using cornmeal in a deck oven can often make a mess, whereas semolina appears less prone to do this. I looked for brushes or mops in the photos but did not see any. So, at this point, I would lean toward semolina, with bench flour or semolina being used on the peel although in the photos I could not make out semolina in the bowls at the workstations.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 01:00:05 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #289 on: August 23, 2013, 01:03:12 PM »
Norma,

You have become an old pro at extracting information out of people, so you should just do what you always do. Maybe if you tell Sammy, if he is there, that you are a pizza operator, he might open up more out of professional kinship.

It would be nice to nail down the dough ball size matter but dough balls can take on various sizes depending on where they are in the fermentation/temper cycle. So you may see several different sizes.

It would also be interesting to know more about the yeast, if only to rule out certain things, and whether the oil is put in the dough or just dribbled down the side of the mixer bowl to make it easier to remove the dough mass from the mixer. You might also look for signs of semolina/cornmeal in the dough boxes and in the silver colored bowls that are kept at the workstations.

There are bound to be things that you pick up that were not in articles or videos or photos of the De Lorenzo tomato pies. Some of those things might help you with your clone.

Peter

Peter,

I know I have become an old pro at extracting information out of people, but after leaving a pizza business I think of more things I should have done or asked.  I might tell Sam I am a pizza operator after I look around and see what I can find out.  Some professional pizza operators open up and other ones just shut up thinking I might want to make their kind of pizzas.

Your advice to look at the dough balls is good and I can understand they might be in different fermentation/temper cycles and might look different.  I think Bill and I are going to try to go to De Lorezno's right after they open.

I can see it would be helpful to learn more about the yeast they use.  I didn't think about how the oil might be used in the mixing process.  I will look for signs of semolina/cornmeal in the dough boxes and in the silver colored bowls that are at the workstations. 

Hopefully while watching I will pick some things up for my cloning efforts.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #290 on: August 23, 2013, 01:09:26 PM »
Yesterday I used thus formulation.  I've been working weird hours this week, so I made it and threw it in the fridge at 2 in the morning.  I took it out around 10:30 the same morning, made a quick sauce with some marzanos from the garden, and took one daughter to swimming.  Got back, opened the dough, and went to town.  I used a mozz/provolone blend and chopped red peppers.  Initially I had the oven at @ 450, but my fresh sauce proved to be too watery and I had to crank it to 500.  I think it was maybe in the given @ 20-25 minutes.  Everyone loved it, and one daughter called the crust "phenomenal".  The crust was slightly thin and crisp, which is exactly what I've been looking for!

Not sure how well I will be able to replicate this due to the change in temp!

Andy

Andy,

I am glad your daughter thought the crust on your tomato pie was “phenomenal” and everyone liked it!  Your sure seemed to know how to manage your oven right in the bake.  Great job on that!  :chef:  Your photos of your tomato pie look excellent.  What kind of flour did you use?

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #291 on: August 23, 2013, 01:17:53 PM »
Norma,

I don't know the physical layout of De Lorenzo's/Robbinsville but sometimes there are areas in the view of diners where supplies, like flour, are kept.

I don't want you and Trenton Bill to get nabbed dumpster diving  :-D.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #292 on: August 23, 2013, 01:25:40 PM »
Norma,

I don't know the physical layout of De Lorenzo's/Robbinsville but sometimes there are areas in the view of diners where supplies, like flour, are kept.

I don't want you and Trenton Bill to get nabbed dumpster diving  :-D.

Peter

Peter,

Bill and I talked about the dumpster diving thing and we will see where the dumpsters might be located.  It wouldn't be the first time I went dumpster diving.  :-D I don't know what Bill will want to do about that though.

Norma

Edit:  When we tried to go to De Lorenzo's on my last trip with Bill I recall going around the block to try and see where parking was in Bill vehicle.  I don't really recall much, but think homes are just behind De Lorenzo's.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 01:29:11 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #293 on: August 23, 2013, 01:36:12 PM »
Peter,

I just looked on Google Maps for what is behind De Lorenzo's and it looks to me like that is where there is parking for all of the businesses.  I think I saw dumpsters in an enclosed area for all of the businesses in part of the middle of the parking lot.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 01:41:03 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #294 on: August 23, 2013, 01:47:00 PM »
Peter,

I just looked on Google Maps for what is behind De Lorenzo's and it looks to me like that is where there is parking for all of the businesses.  I think I saw dumpsters in an enclosed area for all of the businesses in part of the middle of the parking lot.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #295 on: August 23, 2013, 01:50:07 PM »
ZOOM in Norma!!  :-D

Bob,

I tried to zoom in.   :-D

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #296 on: August 23, 2013, 01:58:55 PM »
Bob,

I tried to zoom in.   :-D

Norma
Guess you'll just have to whip out some of that patented "Norma's smooth talk" stuff!  :D
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Offline kramer73

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #297 on: August 23, 2013, 03:40:56 PM »
Andy,

I am glad your daughter thought the crust on your tomato pie was “phenomenal” and everyone liked it!  Your sure seemed to know how to manage your oven right in the bake.  Great job on that!  :chef:  Your photos of your tomato pie look excellent.  What kind of flour did you use?

Norma

Thanks Norma, that's high praise indeed!  I thought it was funny that she used the word "phenomenal", considering she is 8   ;D

I used King Arthur bread flour for this batch, and olive oil for the oil. 

How long have you been keeping your dough in the fridge/cooler?  Normally I keep it in the fridge for a day.

Offline BenLee

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #298 on: August 23, 2013, 06:03:39 PM »
Peter,

I just looked on Google Maps for what is behind De Lorenzo's and it looks to me like that is where there is parking for all of the businesses.  I think I saw dumpsters in an enclosed area for all of the businesses in part of the middle of the parking lot.

Norma

lol, yeah, there is a dumpster in the center of the lot.  You'd be better off just walking adjacent to the entrance though.  They leave the kitchen door open in the summer for you to get a great view of the prep room.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #299 on: August 23, 2013, 06:17:32 PM »
Guess you'll just have to whip out some of that patented "Norma's smooth talk" stuff!  :D

Bob,

It will all depend on how nervous I am, and depends on what kind of vibe I get when talking to them.  I've been know to flub before.

Norma
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