Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 98194 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #950 on: December 07, 2013, 06:37:04 PM »
Good news for Tomato pies.  Delorenzo's recently purchased a property in Newton PA and is gearing up for opening another location.

BenLee,

That is good news for Tomato Pies that De Lorenzo's recently purchase a property in Newton, Pa. 

Too bad that is farther away from me than De Lorenzo's Robbinsville.   :(

Norma



Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #952 on: December 11, 2013, 01:45:13 PM »
An updated article about Papa's Tomato Pies from their facebook page today.  http://hiddentrenton.com/?p=15&cpage 

I found some of the comments interesting.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #953 on: December 18, 2013, 07:49:14 AM »
I am not sure why the boardwalk style pizza crusts seemed better yesterday in my opinion.  The oven spring and brownness of the rim crust seemed better to me.  I did add 7 frozen boardwalk style dough balls that were first defrosted to a batch of the boardwalk style of dough.  I never added more than 3 frozen dough balls at a time to a fresh batch of dough before because I was not sure what would happen.  Some of the frozen dough balls were over a month old. 

I also wanted to add something that I thought was somewhat amusing happened about an older lady and her daughter yesterday that came to try the boardwalk style of pizzas.  They both first said they wanted to try my pizzas because the one lady said she had an aunt that was named Norma and they wanted to see what a Norma's pizza tasted like.  After they both tried a slice they came back and said how good the boardwalk style of pizza was.  Later they came back again and purchased more slices and again said how good they were.  They even tried the Detroit style of pizzas then.  The third time the younger one came back and asked me where else I had a pizza business that I sold the same pizzas and I said I am too old to be doing this more than one day a week.  The younger lady said she had brought her mother back because she saw the sign for Norma's pizza, but does come to market often and never saw my pizza stand before.  I said I have been operating the pizza stand for almost 5 years.  The fourth time they came back the older lady told me her son had opened a pizzeria and restaurant near Paoli in Pa. and before she tried my pizzas she thought her son's were the best but didn't know if her sons were the best anymore.  She purchased all of the slices I had in the heated cabinet and said she was going to take them to her son to taste.  The older lady did give me the name of her sons pizzeria but I was too busy to write it down.  I think hers sons pizzeria is call Mario's and I found that somewhat amusing too when she told me her sons name sure was not Italian.  Maybe her son took purchased a pizzeria that was called Mario's before.  They both asked me for my phone numbers to ask me more questions.  I was chuckling under my straight face and whipped out some of the dough formulations for the dough tools here on the forum and asked if her son weighs in baker's percents.  :-D  She said she does not know but will ask him.

The first photo is how dough balls are warmed up since it is colder at market.  If they are just left on the bench it takes them too long to warm up.  We had some additional snow showers in the afternoon yesterday besides the snow we had in the morning.  After I was finished washing dishes I went outside and by then my windshield with the snow on it was frozen.  I had gloves on but it was so cold outside that I guess my hands were not completely dried and my hands felt froze just from scrapping that snow off on the windshield.       

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #954 on: December 18, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »
Norma,
Of the 7 frozen dough balls you added(some being over a month old).....where any of those ever previously defrosted, then re froze during the month they have been around?
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #955 on: December 18, 2013, 02:56:12 PM »
Norma,
Of the 7 frozen dough balls you added(some being over a month old).....where any of those ever previously defrosted, then re froze during the month they have been around?

Bob,

No, none of the frozen dough balls were previously defrosted.  They were cold fermenting for a day or a little more though before they were frozen.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #956 on: January 12, 2014, 03:57:39 PM »
Trenton Bill called me the last week and said he had made a DeLorenzo's pizza in his Blackstone unit that did taste just like a DeLorenzo's pizza.  He had been fiddling around with different bake temperatures and also different formulations.  Bill called me again today and said that he made another DeLorenzo's pizza that tasted the same. 

I find it interesting the formulation he used since it is a higher hydration formulation.  This is the formulation, method of mixing etc.

Flour 50/50 All Trumps and Baker's Best
Hydration 63%
.40% IDY
1.7% Sea Salt
1% light olive oil
TF .0683   Dough ball weight 9.5 ounces for a 14” pizza  Bowl residue compensation 1.5%

Bill said for the first pizza he cold fermented the dough ball for one day and for the second pizza he just left the dough ball sit out until it look like it was fermented enough.  Bill said he stretched the dough ball out and then rolled it with a rolling pin a little.  Bill said the dough ball was easy to open.  Bill said the whole bottom of the pizza was crispy and crunchy. 

Total mix time was 10 minutes first with the flat beater in Bill's Kitchen Aid mixer at speed 2 and then he changed to the C hook at speed two also.

Bake temperature in the BS was 580-600 degrees F.

These are the two photos Trenton Bill sent me in an email.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #957 on: January 13, 2014, 06:09:25 PM »
I tried this flour before, but not with the same formulation.  For some reason I was not impressed with it.  Purchased another bag and am trying it tomorrow with the current formulation I am using. 

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #958 on: January 13, 2014, 08:32:48 PM »
Norma,

Which way did you read the Full Strength flour bag--standing up or on your head? ;D

Peter


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #959 on: January 13, 2014, 08:44:33 PM »
Maybe that's why it didn't work very good for her last time....they sending you bad bags Norma?  ;D
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #960 on: January 13, 2014, 09:18:52 PM »
Norma,

Which way did you read the Full Strength flour bag--standing up or on your head? ;D

Peter

I don't know what the heck happened with that photo Peter.   I did bend down to take the photo, but don't know if the bag is printed wrong or not.  I first thought the printing on the bag looked odd but then did not give it any more attention until I posted the photo.  I had the flu for a few days and then had to take my daughter to the ER for kidney stones very early this morning.  I was tired today so I really don't know what happened.  I just hope I mixed my dough batches right today. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #961 on: January 13, 2014, 09:22:11 PM »
Maybe that's why it didn't work very good for her last time....they sending you bad bags Norma?  ;D

Bob,

I wish I could recall why I did not like the Full Strength flour before, but for the life of me I can not remember why I did not like it.  I used it to make all of the boardwalk style of doughs today.  The dough felt fine though.  Will wait until tomorrow to see what happens.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #962 on: January 13, 2014, 09:36:24 PM »
Bob,

I wish I could recall why I did not like the Full Strength flour before, but for the life of me I can not remember why I did not like it.  I used it to make all of the boardwalk style of doughs today.  The dough felt fine though.  Will wait until tomorrow to see what happens.

Norma
Sounds good...I'm looking forward to seeing how they turn out with that flour.

Sorry to hear about the illnesses around there Norma...what a bummer.  :(    Wish you wellness gal!  ;)
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #963 on: January 13, 2014, 09:54:59 PM »
Sounds good...I'm looking forward to seeing how they turn out with that flour.

Sorry to hear about the illnesses around there Norma...what a bummer.  :(    Wish you wellness gal!  ;)

Bob,

I'll see if there is any differences when using the Full Strength. 

With a young child around she seems to always have some kind of illness.  Usually I am lucky and do not catch the stuff and really didn't catch the flu from her.  My daughters kidney stone came from out of the blue.  She usually is not sick either.  Thanks for your kind vibes.

Maybe Peter was right that I might have stood on my head to take that photo.  Who knows with all that was going on today.   :-D

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #964 on: January 15, 2014, 07:44:53 PM »
I took other photos of the pizzas made with the Full Strength flour yesterday, but for some reason the rim crust under the lighting at market never looks like the color that is really is in person.  These are just two photos of one pizza and the last slice left at the end of the day which a customer did purchase.  Steve and I ate a slice of pizza and did like how the crust tasted.  The bottom crust was crunchy. 

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #965 on: January 15, 2014, 08:16:55 PM »
I took other photos of the pizzas made with the Full Strength flour yesterday, but for some reason the rim crust under the lighting at market never looks like the color that is really is in person.  These are just two photos of one pizza and the last slice left at the end of the day which a customer did purchase.  Steve and I ate a slice of pizza and did like how the crust tasted.  The bottom crust was crunchy. 

Norma
Thanks for the pics Norma, looking good. Was the slice you tried hot out of the oven or did you get to sample one that had a lil age on it...just wondering if/when it starts getting a bit tough.

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #966 on: January 15, 2014, 09:51:43 PM »

Was the slice you tried hot out of the oven or did you get to sample one that had a lil age on it...just wondering if/when it starts getting a bit tough.

Bob

Bob,

The slice I tried was almost fresh out of the oven as soon as I waited on some customers.  It was reheated for just a little because I like a slice piping hot.  I have not noticed any of my slices getting tough when reheated though even if they were made with higher protein flours.  I don't know what is up with that either.  :-\ I never figured out if the bake time has something to do with that or not.  Right now I am running the oven temperature at about 545 degrees F or a little hotter.  Because the pizzas are baked on the larger stone with more mass maybe that also can affect something.

I want to try and start to get a smaller rim with more oven spring but can't figure out how to do that and still make a 17.5” pizza with the same amount of cheese.  Since the cheese is the most expensive thing on the pizza I don't want to have to use more cheese.

Norma 


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #967 on: January 15, 2014, 10:29:32 PM »
Bob,

The slice I tried was almost fresh out of the oven as soon as I waited on some customers.  It was reheated for just a little because I like a slice piping hot.  I have not noticed any of my slices getting tough when reheated though even if they were made with higher protein flours.  I don't know what is up with that either.  :-\ I never figured out if the bake time has something to do with that or not.  Right now I am running the oven temperature at about 545 degrees F or a little hotter.  Because the pizzas are baked on the larger stone with more mass maybe that also can affect something.

I want to try and start to get a smaller rim with more oven spring but can't figure out how to do that and still make a 17.5” pizza with the same amount of cheese.  Since the cheese is the most expensive thing on the pizza I don't want to have to use more cheese.

Norma
Wow....I didn't think that pie looked that big(17+in.). And with you doing just a 6 slice cut per pie...that's a generous slice there Norma.

The NY style joints around here do the small rim type stretch such as you are contemplating. I'll bet you could get away with using the same amount of cheese if you try dressing the pie with the cheese just as you normally do but then "pull/drag back" some of the cheese from the center of the pizza going back out towards the rim...you know, brush some back with your fingers leaving the cheese amount in the middle a bit "light".
 Maybe then when the pie bakes cheese will naturally flow back to the middle yet fill still leave a good looking amount at the outer/rim area. Hope I'm not sounding confusing. Anyway, just a thought.... :chef:

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #968 on: January 16, 2014, 08:58:58 AM »
Wow....I didn't think that pie looked that big(17+in.). And with you doing just a 6 slice cut per pie...that's a generous slice there Norma.

The NY style joints around here do the small rim type stretch such as you are contemplating. I'll bet you could get away with using the same amount of cheese if you try dressing the pie with the cheese just as you normally do but then "pull/drag back" some of the cheese from the center of the pizza going back out towards the rim...you know, brush some back with your fingers leaving the cheese amount in the middle a bit "light".
 Maybe then when the pie bakes cheese will naturally flow back to the middle yet fill still leave a good looking amount at the outer/rim area. Hope I'm not sounding confusing. Anyway, just a thought.... :chef:

Bob

Bob,

I am only using 8 ounces of cheese on those boardwalk style pizzas and compared to when I watched at Mack's and Joey's I am not using as much cheese as they are.  If you look at some of my photos of when the boardwalk style pizzas are just dressed I don't see how I could drag some of that cheese from the center.  I tried to dress the boardwalk style pizzas the regular way with the sauce first and then the cheese but then they did not look anything like a boardwalk style pizza and even tasted different.  Those pizza pans are 16” and I think it can be seen that the whole pizzas are over the edges of those 16” pans. 

The new head maintenance man talked to me Tuesday and told me they had not forgotten about replacing my floor and had other troubles like freezing pipes at 7 standholders in another building, and also had roof repairs at market.  I was glad to hear they did not forget about replacing my whole floor.  That is going to be quite a big undertaking to removed everything from my stand including all of the plumbing.  I only have to pay for the new framework and plywood for the raised floor and the new linoleum, but that is going to be enough money that I have to make up.  I am still trying to think of a way to get my pizzas to have a smaller rim edge but still having oven spring.  I even tried to smash the dough rim edges with my fingers but that doesn't work either for a smaller rim edge.  I tried all kinds of ways of opening the dough balls but that did not work either.  I can't imagine how the maintenance workers and I will remove everything from my stand in a time span of one week (not including the weekend because they do not work on the weekend) and have it ready by the next week but they said it can be done.  That really only gives 3 days to have everything done for my floor repairs.

Norma   

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #969 on: January 16, 2014, 10:59:03 AM »
Hi Norma, I have a video for you but maybe you"ve already seen it. It shows a guy giving lesson on dough stretching and the way he does it makes it look like a person could really be able to control the size of their pie rim.
Also, if you don't mind my asking...what do you charge for one slice of cheese pizza from that 16 in. pan? And how long has it been since you raised your prices.
Good luck with that repair work Norma, sounds like a real mess...do you have to help move all your equipment out?

Bob

http://feelingfoodish.com/the-best-new-york-style-pizza-dough/
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:20:44 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #970 on: January 16, 2014, 11:32:10 AM »
Hi Norma, I have a video for you but maybe you"ve already seen it. It shows a guy giving lesson on dough stretching and the way he does it makes it look like a person could really be able to control the size of their pie rim.
Also, if you don't mind my asking...what do you charge for one slice of cheese pizza from that 16 in. pan? And how long has it been since you raised your prices.
Good luck with that repair work Norma, sounds like a real mess...do you have to help move all your equipment out?

Bob

http://feelingfoodish.com/the-best-new-york-style-pizza-dough/

Bob,

Thanks for the video on stretching dough.  I will study it.

I charge 1.75 for one slice of plain cheese and 2.25 for a slice with meat.  I have never raised the prices in almost 5 years.  I started out making 16" pizzas and might go back to that size if I can't get my rim crust right.

Thanks for the good luck with the repair work.  I see that as being a real mess.  :o The market is going to pay the maintenance mens wages to help me move all that equipment out and back in, and also for them to install the new raised floor.  I said I would be happy to just have the old floor ripped out and then put linoleum on the concrete but the market master said it would be easier on my feet and legs to have a raised floor like I have now.  I already knew a raised floor is easier on the feet and legs but did not want them to do more than they had to.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #971 on: January 16, 2014, 11:58:47 AM »
Bob,

Thanks for the video on stretching dough.  I will study it.

I charge 1.75 for one slice of plain cheese and 2.25 for a slice with meat.  I have never raised the prices in almost 5 years.  I started out making 16" pizzas and might go back to that size if I can't get my rim crust right.

Thanks for the good luck with the repair work.  I see that as being a real mess.  :o The market is going to pay the maintenance mens wages to help me move all that equipment out and back in, and also for them to install the new raised floor.  I said I would be happy to just have the old floor ripped out and then put linoleum on the concrete but the market master said it would be easier on my feet and legs to have a raised floor like I have now.  I already knew a raised floor is easier on the feet and legs but did not want them to do more than they had to.

Norma
I'll bet you could sneak a new slice price of $1.99 for plain and $2.49 for meat and nobody would blink an eye...your pricing is pretty darn low Norma.

If cheese cost is , say $2.40 a lb. that small 24 cent price increase could by you aprox. 25% more cheese per pie...almost an additional 2oz.! You'd be known as "that lady who really lays the cheese on!!"  :D

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #972 on: January 16, 2014, 12:43:09 PM »
I'll bet you could sneak a new slice price of $1.99 for plain and $2.49 for meat and nobody would blink an eye...your pricing is pretty darn low Norma.

If cheese cost is , say $2.40 a lb. that small 24 cent price increase could by you aprox. 25% more cheese per pie...almost an additional 2oz.! You'd be known as "that lady who really lays the cheese on!!"  :D

Bob

I probably could increase the price of a cheese slice to 2.00 but will probably wait until spring to do that.  Not many people comment about paying 2.00 a slice for the Detroit style plain cheese slices, but if someone comments the price is higher I say that dough takes longer to mix right and needs more care in tempering before baking.

You have the remember in am in a farmer's market where prices are lower than usual for most things.  That and also many pizzerias in my area sell slices for about the same price I am charging right now.  The one problem with adding more of the cheese I use right now is that it has a higher fat content and can become too gooey looking in how the cheese looks when the pizza is baked and also can make the crust too soft.  If too much of the kind of cheese I used is applied it can make a mess on the deck when the slices are reheated too.  I really did not mean to complain so much. 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #973 on: January 28, 2014, 08:39:32 PM »
I purchased two more Longo's frozen dough balls over the weekend to try out in the BS, but decided to try one out in the deck oven today, to see how it would bake there.  I posted about the Longo's frozen dough balls at Reply 431 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26483.msg297544.html#msg297544 in the BS thread.

I got Steve to open the defrosted Longo's dough ball for him to see how easy they are to open.  The pizza was dressed like the boardwalk style pizzas.  The bake went well in the deck oven.

Steve mentioned that he thought the finished pizza should have had a little more salt added in the dough for the crust to taste better and I then noticed the same thing.  On the Longo's frozen dough balls ingredient list the salt is listed as the second to last ingredient.

The Longo's frozen dough ball was oiled and put into a plastic container before I went to market yesterday and then was left to defrost in the deli case until this morning.  I then put the container out at room temperature until later this afternoon when it was used.  I found it interesting that the dough ball did not overferment from the long while it was left at room temperature.

I also found out the Longo's frozen dough balls need to be baked at a lower temperature if I try them out in the BS again.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #974 on: January 28, 2014, 08:42:22 PM »
Norma