Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 109789 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #975 on: March 29, 2014, 10:19:43 AM »
I find it interesting that De Lorenzo's Hamilton was voted the best pizza in The Trentonian March Madness Best Pizza Tournament .  http://www.trentonian.com/lifestyle/20140328/march-madness-delorenzos-pizza-in-hamilton-is-our-best-pizza-winner 

Norma


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #976 on: April 07, 2014, 09:11:42 AM »
I have no idea if the recipe in this bloggers post will produce a decent Tomato pie or not, but think I am going to give it a try.  http://blogs.kqed.org/bayareabites/2012/04/04/recipe-tomato-pie-2-0/  I don't think I am going to try the sauce recipe though.

Steve (Ev) took me to Marchiano's Bakery at  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21096.msg211948#msg211948 to try their tomato pies.

Bob1 also brought me and Steve a tomato pie from Corrorpolese Bakery and Deli at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19389.msg189708#msg189708

I found this article interesting about how Sarcone's Bakery makes a tomato pie. http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/food-dining/2014/01/21/tomato-pie-pizza-made-with-italian-gravy-philly-staple/zyeofwljqVYR1VLzW5mssM/story.html  It says in the article that Sarcone's uses malt in their dough.  Wonder if adding sugar would be as good.

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how much I should reduce the amount of IDY for a one day cold ferment from the first link. 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #977 on: April 07, 2014, 08:52:28 PM »
I mixed the recipe I had given the link to this morning.  What a mess that was.  :-D I used 1.66 grams of IDY and used Shurfine AP flour in the recipe.  I also added 1 teaspoon of diastatic malt, which probably was the wrong kind of malt.  When I looked over the recipe I thought that didn't look like enough water.  Well I mixed anyway by using the method of a late addition of oil.  The dough was just scrappy looking so I added over ¼ cup of extra water and also the two teaspoons that were supposed to be added to dissolve the Kosher salt.  When I then added the ¼ cup of olive oil the dough became too hydrated, and then looked almost like soup, so I had to add some more flour.  If I get to try to bake the dough for the tomato pie I sure don't expect any good results.

The final dough weight is on the scale and the final dough temperature was 76.8 degrees F.

I know now why I don't try more recipes that everything aren't in weight measurements.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #978 on: April 07, 2014, 10:06:37 PM »
That cracked me up.  Been there, done that.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #979 on: April 07, 2014, 10:23:27 PM »
That cracked me up.  Been there, done that.

Jonas,

Maybe someone will come along and give me a good formulation for a tomato pie.  Where the heck is Dave now.  :-D  Dave said he can make a good tomato pie.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #980 on: April 11, 2014, 09:42:51 PM »
Catching Up With Brothers of Maruca's Tomato Pies in Seaside Heights, NJ.



Norma

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Offline beaunehead

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #982 on: May 12, 2014, 01:21:34 PM »
Thanks for the links, Norma. I am skeptical, however, after reading them, what this man is actually creating.

At the same time, I had begun constructing my wood-fired oven using the Forno Bravo Pompeii Oven guideline plans, and the resources of the Forno Bravo Forum (more about my oven later). I had already decided that my gas and electric ovens were never going to cut-it if I was to bake the Tomato Pie and crusty breads I so dearly missed now that I lived in North Carolina.

My dough recipe today uses King Arthur Sir Lancelot (high gluten) flour, water, yeast and salt - no sugar or oils added


DeLorenzo's on Hudson (and now Robbinsville) used bread (not "high gluten") flour; gas ovens; and added oil to the mix. Lots of variables changed here in trying to re-create the masterpiece of Trenton Hudson St.

IMO.
Stuart

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #983 on: May 12, 2014, 06:23:09 PM »
Thanks for the links, Norma. I am skeptical, however, after reading them, what this man is actually creating.

At the same time, I had begun constructing my wood-fired oven using the Forno Bravo Pompeii Oven guideline plans, and the resources of the Forno Bravo Forum (more about my oven later). I had already decided that my gas and electric ovens were never going to cut-it if I was to bake the Tomato Pie and crusty breads I so dearly missed now that I lived in North Carolina.

My dough recipe today uses King Arthur Sir Lancelot (high gluten) flour, water, yeast and salt - no sugar or oils added


DeLorenzo's on Hudson (and now Robbinsville) used bread (not "high gluten") flour; gas ovens; and added oil to the mix. Lots of variables changed here in trying to re-create the masterpiece of Trenton Hudson St.

IMO.

Stuart,

I also am skeptical what Bob is creating.  I tried to post some questions and tell him I also was trying to recreate a De Lorenzo's Hudson, Robbinsville tomato pie.  For some reason I could not post a reply.  I am a member on Pizza Quest and did put my username, email address and blog as a website when trying to reply.  It said someone else was using the same things I typed in.  I then emailed Peter Reinhart to see why I could not post a reply and also sent for a new password.  I got a token password but that would not work either.  I will wait and see what happens.

Norma


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #984 on: May 12, 2014, 11:02:54 PM »
I'm interested in this too.

Bob Radcliffe's place is near me...about 40 miles away. He is having a Trenton pie picnic later this month.

CB
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #985 on: May 13, 2014, 06:28:04 AM »
I'm interested in this too.

Bob Radcliffe's place is near me...about 40 miles away. He is having a Trenton pie picnic later this month.

CB

Bob,

Since Bob Radcliffe's is near you maybe you can get invited to his Trenton pie picnic later this month.   There is something magical about a De Lorenzo's Robbinsville's pizza in my opinion and other members opinions.  Since I never was at De Lorenzo's Hudson, when they had the coal oven, it makes me wonder how a WFO oven could produce a “tomato pie” like a coal oven does.  I guess that could be something like what others have tried in baking in different ovens and not exactly getting a De Lorenzo's “tomato pie” right. 

Peter Reinhart did reply last night to my email and said he was sorry I was having difficulties signing on to Pizza Quest.  He said he is away this week but would try to help me next week.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #986 on: May 13, 2014, 06:44:16 AM »
The guy seems like the real deal Norma.
They are a "society", pay $5 to become a member and then each of their "events" charge a set "donation".
Looks like a really nice farm set out in the country in Franklin County.
Bob
http://www.lynchcreek.com/BreadWorks-Newsletters/Latest-Newsletter.pdf


The Ben Franklin Society is a 501(c)(3), Non-Profit, North Caro
lina Corporation dedicated “to pe
rforming independent and collab
orative re-
search on matters of importance to Franklin County, NC”. Donations to the Society are tax-deductible.
Society membership is open to everyone.
Associate Membership is available for $5 per year. Franklin Br
eadWorks is the Society Fund-Raising Project that is a collabora
tion between the
Ben Franklin Society and Lynch Creek Farm. BreadWorks Dining an
d Entertainment Events are announced in our BreadWorks Newslett
er that
is distributed by e-mail and posted on our website each month.
BreadWorks Events are private. Attendees
must be current Ben Franklin Society mem-
bers.
20% of each BreadWorks Event is a tax-deductible donation with pa
yment accepted by cash, check or credit and debit cards.
No alcoholic beverages are served at BreadWorks Events,
but you may B.Y.O.B. Parking is always free-of-charge.
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Online norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #987 on: May 13, 2014, 06:54:18 AM »
The guy seems like the real deal Norma.
They are a "society", pay $5 to become a member and then each of their "events" charge a set "donation".
Looks like a really nice farm set out in the country in Franklin County.
Bob
http://www.lynchcreek.com/BreadWorks-Newsletters/Latest-Newsletter.pdf


The Ben Franklin Society is a 501(c)(3), Non-Profit, North Caro
lina Corporation dedicated “to pe
rforming independent and collab
orative re-
search on matters of importance to Franklin County, NC”. Donations to the Society are tax-deductible.
Society membership is open to everyone.
Associate Membership is available for $5 per year. Franklin Br
eadWorks is the Society Fund-Raising Project that is a collabora
tion between the
Ben Franklin Society and Lynch Creek Farm. BreadWorks Dining an
d Entertainment Events are announced in our BreadWorks Newslett
er that
is distributed by e-mail and posted on our website each month.
BreadWorks Events are private. Attendees
must be current Ben Franklin Society mem-
bers.
20% of each BreadWorks Event is a tax-deductible donation with pa
yment accepted by cash, check or credit and debit cards.
No alcoholic beverages are served at BreadWorks Events,
but you may B.Y.O.B. Parking is always free-of-charge.

Bob,

I agree that Bob seems like the real deal in all that he has done trying to recreate a “tomato pie” like De Lorenzo's.  Thanks for posting about the “society” and what it costs to become a member. 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #988 on: May 13, 2014, 07:24:14 AM »
Bob,

I agree that Bob seems like the real deal in all that he has done trying to recreate a “tomato pie” like De Lorenzo's.  Thanks for posting about the “society” and what it costs to become a member. 

Norma
This was a real good link you posted Norma. http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/contributors/45-guest-bloggers/507-tomato-pie-rocky-ford-and-me-part-2.html  Bob Radcliffe says he has the Delorenzo crust down pretty darn near perfect.

Evidently, Bob Radcliffe is trying to make tomato pies like the original Delorenzo's where they used a coal oven and they put pieces of whole tomato on top rather than using a "sauce".
Did you or Trenton Bill ever have one of these "original" pies before Norma?

Bob
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #989 on: May 13, 2014, 10:02:58 PM »
This was a real good link you posted Norma. http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/contributors/45-guest-bloggers/507-tomato-pie-rocky-ford-and-me-part-2.html  Bob Radcliffe says he has the Delorenzo crust down pretty darn near perfect.

Evidently, Bob Radcliffe is trying to make tomato pies like the original Delorenzo's where they used a coal oven and they put pieces of whole tomato on top rather than using a "sauce".
Did you or Trenton Bill ever have one of these "original" pies before Norma?

Bob

Bob,

I sure don't know if Bob Radcliffe has the De Lorenzo crust down near perfect.  From the photo the rim looks too big to my eyes.   

I do think Bob Radcliffe is trying to make tomato pies like the original De Lorenzo's when they used the coal oven.  De Lorenzo's still uses partly whole tomatoes in combination with another sauce.  If you read back in this thread I think De Lorenzo's used to grow their own tomatoes a long while ago.

To answer you question about if I ever tried De Lorenzo's pizza a long time ago, no I did not.  The first time I tried a De Lorenzo's pizza was last year.  Trenton Bill recalls when De Lorenzo's had a coal oven but doesn't recall all the details on how the coal oven was used or how it tasted way back then.  Bill said it was really good though.   

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #990 on: May 14, 2014, 08:13:31 AM »
I was doing a little searching the other night about De Lorenzo's on Hudson “tomato pies”.  I can't recall if I did see the post on Scott's Pizza Journal comparing De Lorenzo's “tomato pies” to other tavern pies that started about the same time as De Lorenzo's.  http://blog.scottspizzatours.com/post/14311529743/epitaph-delorenzos-tomato-pies  I had not been looking, or knew enough, about tavern style pizzas when searching about De Lorenzo's “tomato pies” before.  I wonder how the formulation I had tried for a Star Tavern clone would work out for a De Lorenzo's pizza.  :-\ I am now curious if about the same recipe would work for a De Lorenzo's pizza.   

Bob,  In case you are interested this is one place on the web where it was posted about the tomatoes used in the old-time De Lorenzo's pizzas.  “Chick DeLorenzo once told a Times reporter...When the Hudson Street eatery first opened, Sophie DeLorenzo canned New Jersey tomatoes at home for use on her husband's pies, which back then were baked in a coal-fired brick oven”.  http://www.jimdelorenzo.com/2007/09/my-fathers-family-delorenzos-tomato-pie.html 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #991 on: May 18, 2014, 10:21:29 PM »
If anyone is interested, my daughter brought me home a Grotto's Take and Bake Pizza tonight.  The other photos are at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31899.msg316486#msg316486

Norma


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #992 on: May 19, 2014, 09:26:26 AM »
Thanks for the link about the De Lorenzo tomatoes Norma.
That par bake Grotto's looks Ok but certainly not as good as your great pies.

Bob
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #993 on: May 19, 2014, 10:23:09 AM »

That par bake Grotto's looks Ok but certainly not as good as your great pies.

Bob

Bob,

In my opinion the Grotto's par-baked pizza was a lot better than when I purchased a par-baked pizza at Mack's.  For comparison’s sake, these were some of the photos of Mack's par-baked pizza at Reply 1441 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg212804#msg212804 It can be seen that Mack's par-baked pizza sure had too dark of a bottom rim crust.   
 
Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #994 on: May 19, 2014, 10:53:53 AM »
Bob,

In my opinion the Grotto's par-baked pizza was a lot better than when I purchased a par-baked pizza at Mack's.  For comparison’s sake, these were some of the photos of Mack's par-baked pizza at Reply 1441 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg212804#msg212804 It can be seen that Mack's par-baked pizza sure had too dark of a bottom rim crust.   
 
Norma
;D  I like the looks of that Mack's underskirt pics.
Just goes to show you that everyone has different tastes.
I assume you are looking for something in between the two for your NY Blackstone pizzas.
You'll get there Norma...I have confidence in you!  :chef:

Bob
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #995 on: May 19, 2014, 05:50:27 PM »
;D  I like the looks of that Mack's underskirt pics.
Just goes to show you that everyone has different tastes.
I assume you are looking for something in between the two for your NY Blackstone pizzas.
You'll get there Norma...I have confidence in you!  :chef:

Bob

Bob,

I agree that everyone's tastes are different.  Interesting you liked the darker Mack's undercrust.  Usually Mack's pizzas are not that dark on the bottom crust.

I am looking for an even bottom browning for a NY style pizza in the BS.  If I can get that I might try a De Lorenzo's pizza again, but at a higher temperature.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #996 on: May 26, 2014, 08:28:50 AM »
Another dough was mixed last evening using somewhat as the same recipe that I had tried out in the Blackstone Unit at Reply 612   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26483.msg317043#msg317043  The extra piece of dough (that was leftover from cutting off some dough for a smaller pizza) from the BS bake was balled.  It was a little hard to ball the extra piece of dough since it was cold.  I will try both of them out in the oven at market tomorrow.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #997 on: May 27, 2014, 09:46:33 PM »
I don't understand why, but the leftover piece of the dough from the Blackstone bake turned out very similar in taste to a De Lorenzo's pizza from Robbinsville.  The dough ball weighed 5.9 oz.  The bottom crust was crispy and the taste of the crust was good.  Maybe the recipe just worked out well in the deck oven.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #998 on: May 27, 2014, 09:47:47 PM »
Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #999 on: May 27, 2014, 10:34:13 PM »
That is a good looking tomato pie!  That bottom looks perfect for any pizza!
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.


 

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