I have been thinking over what I might be doing wrong and what my limitations are even if I have a Baker's Pride oven and a 20 qt. Hobart mixer to use. Scott r's post at Reply 13 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg95846.html#msg95846
came to mind in what he said about a very long mixed dough and definitely made with a high gluten flour. The rest of what he commented on that post also made more sense to me now than when he posted those comments. I didn't think my smaller Hobart mixer had that many limitations, but after thinking it over I don't really think my attempts can be anything in the crust like a Joey's pizza. I sure don't have a bigger Hobart mixer to try out that is fully loaded. My mixer isn't really all of the problem though and since Mack's and Joey's uses Rotoflex ovens, my Baker's Pride is really no match for a pizza that I would like to create and I really don't think I will be able to do that in the end, or after trying many times.
I already see what my limitations are in my mixer and oven. Although Mack's and Marcua's (now Joey's) both used deck ovens at one time, I can also see the limitations in the countertop oven I use for these attempts. If I recall right Mack's deck ovens did have a higher head space than mine does. I recall when I watched at Pizza Brain how those much bigger ovens (with a lot higher head space than mine) baked those pizzas so good even when they were baked a fairly long while with many pizzas on the same deck at the same time. I guess I really don't understand enough about ovens and mixers even though I try to understand. To add to what I just posted above, I am not the best person to try new dough formulations to see what happens. I think trying new formulations just adds to the confusion of what to try, or what not to try when the attempts don’t go well.
My two batches of dough balls almost overfermented until Tuesday morning when I got to market. I still have no idea why that happened when I thought the dough was scaled, balled and oiled in a reasonable time. I mentioned before that I am having problems with the new bag of IDY and my dough balls wanting to overferment until the next day and mentioned I never saw this happen when a new bag of yeast was opened. I also thought my final dough temperatures were okay. As can be seen in the one photo my pizza prep fridge is rather cold. All of the dough balls were fairly hard to open too. I sure don't know why that happened either, when I used the delayed method of mixing the oil in. The dough balls almost seemed like they were reballed in opening them, but they sure weren’t reballed. As the day went on the dough balls sure weren't easier to open either. The photos of the attempted Tomato Pie dough balls and the Detroit style dough balls were taken fairly early in the morning. I don't think I could have mixed this dough any faster in my mixer, because it took the first 3 minutes for all of the flour to be incorporated into the flour. It makes me wonder more how pizzerias can mix so long and have good doughs that work well to make their pizzas, even if my mixing order or times might not have been right.
These are a few photos of the dough balls and final pizzas. Although the pizzas were good in my opinion, the rim crust and bottom crust weren't anything like Joey's. I guess I am just getting frustrated in trying to make a good Tomato Pie even though I did also try on the Mack's thread. I am not sure of what to try next, but I don’t want anymore dough balls that are hard to open if I can help it. When Steve and I are busy, it just adds more work in getting pizzas made. I think I am moving back instead of moving forward in my attempts for a Tomato Pie. My customers liked the pizzas made with these dough balls, but I am not happy with them.