Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 109308 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #125 on: July 12, 2013, 08:56:43 AM »
Norma,

I notice that you talked about making boardwalk pizzas. However, this thread has to do with Tomato Pies. Are they the same, or do you consider them to be so, and did you use Tomato Pie dough to make the boardwalk pizzas?

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #126 on: July 12, 2013, 09:26:44 AM »
Norma,

I notice that you talked about making boardwalk pizzas. However, this thread has to do with Tomato Pies. Are they the same, or do you consider them to be so, and did you use Tomato Pie dough to make the boardwalk pizzas?

Peter

Peter,

At least to me the Tomato Pies and boardwalk style pizzas are just about one and the same.  As I am sure you will recall I worked on the boardwalk style thread for a long while in combination with you and then never could get those pizzas exactly the way I wanted them.  It was mostly the cheese part on the boardwalk thread that I couldn't get right.  I think you also recall that I mentioned on the boardwalk style thread that Mack's Pizza isn't what I recall from the past.  My daughter visited Wildwood, NJ last Friday and told me Mack's Pizzas at both locations didn't look good at all, but I don't know how they would have tasted.  I told my daughter that I didn't want her to bring me any Mack's pizza home this time.  She said the two locations of Mack's Pizza weren't busy at all, but Sam's Pizza had big lines.  I think you also recall the last two times I was at Mack's Pizza I said that their pies had gone downhill.  I don't know if that is always true, but it is what I experienced.  When I went to Joey's in Trenton, NJ my eyes brightened and my mouth watered again at the taste of Joey's pizza and I guess that is what started me on the journey to make a pizza like Joey's.  I know I am not exactly there, but to me I am close enough right now.  I know my rims are larger than Joey's or Mack's though.

As you probably already noted the pies are baked about the same way at Mack's and Joey's and the sauce and cheese is applied the same way in a boardwalk style pizza and a Tomato pie.

I don't really recall all the formulations I tried out on the boardwalk thread, so I really don't know if I am using the same dough formulation on this thread right now. 

I do plan on using a regular flour with VWG added to see if the same crust can be achieved for a home pizza maker that doesn't have access to the All Trumps flour.  That will probably be in a couple of weeks.

Norma     

Offline Morgan

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #127 on: July 13, 2013, 06:58:59 AM »
My ex-husband came to my pizza stand for the better part of yesterday.  He was in our area to visit close relatives for a few days.  He could not believe how busy a small pizza stand is on a rainy day.  He apologized different times for all of the trouble he gave me when we were married and said if he could go back years he sure would have been different.  He said he wished now that we could have stayed married.  We would have soon been married for 50 years if he would not have been such a character.  How time changes people.  :-D  My ex-husband said it was okay if I posted his picture on the forum.

Norma

He saw your latest pies and was like "I'm so stupid what did i throw away"... :-D

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #128 on: July 13, 2013, 08:28:41 AM »
He saw your latest pies and was like "I'm so stupid what did i throw away"... :-D

Morgan,

My ex-husband is a diabetic now and really doesn't eat much pizza or other foods things that turn to sugar, but does remember how I cooked for him and our children for many years.  His wife now only purchases stuff for them to eat, or uses frozen meatballs to make Italian dishes.  I was married to him when I was very young and started going with him when I was in the 11th grade in high school.  I was dumb and naive at that time and was bedazzled by his BS and charm.  :-D  I think many people have been there at one time in their lives and if I could go back to that time would do things differently now, but that is the way life is.

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #129 on: July 13, 2013, 09:42:13 AM »
  I was married to him when I was very young and started going with him when I was in the 11th grade in high school.  I was dumb and naive at that time and was bedazzled by his BS and charm.  :-D  I think many people have been there at one time in their lives and if I could go back to that time would do things differently now, but that is the way life is.

Norma
So even back then you were into pizzamaking eh Norma? Sounds like he was ahead of all of us by having a Black Stone way back then!  :-D
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 09:44:11 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #130 on: July 13, 2013, 10:15:08 AM »
So even back then you were into pizzamaking eh Norma? Sounds like he was ahead of all of us by having a Black Stone way back then!  :-D

Nope Bob, I wasn't into pizza making back then, I was more into regular baking things like cakes and pies.  The BS is the other kind.   :-D

Norma

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2013, 09:11:57 PM »
Hi Norma.  I took your latest recipe for a spin this weekend and really liked the results -- a nice, light crust with good crisp underneath.  I thought you might like to see the results of this recipe in a home oven.  I didn't construct it like a true tomato pie on this go around.  Toppings were: a little whole milk mozz, tomato sauce, followed by artichoke hearts, mushrooms, canadian bacon, and then fresh mozz and feta added during the last 5 minutes.  It doesn't look pretty, but sure tasted good.  (Those wet ingredients caused me to deform it a little during the launch).

I used your latest recipe but added 1.75% Kosher salt, and scaled it for 14" pies:

Flour (100%):    423.11 g  |  14.92 oz | 0.93 lbs
Water (60.1%):  254.29 g  |  8.97 oz | 0.56 lbs
IDY (0.25%): 1.06 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
Salt (1.75%): 7.4 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.54 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%): 8.63 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.92 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Sugar (0.89%): 3.77 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
Total (165.03%): 698.26 g | 24.63 oz | 1.54 lbs | TF = 0.08
Single Ball: 349.13 g | 12.32 oz | 0.77 lbs

This is one of the better crusts I've had in this style and my most successful outing with 100% KASL flour.

Tim


Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2013, 11:26:47 PM »
Hi Norma.  I took your latest recipe for a spin this weekend and really liked the results -- a nice, light crust with good crisp underneath.  I thought you might like to see the results of this recipe in a home oven.  I didn't construct it like a true tomato pie on this go around.  Toppings were: a little whole milk mozz, tomato sauce, followed by artichoke hearts, mushrooms, canadian bacon, and then fresh mozz and feta added during the last 5 minutes.  It doesn't look pretty, but sure tasted good.  (Those wet ingredients caused me to deform it a little during the launch).

I used your latest recipe but added 1.75% Kosher salt, and scaled it for 14" pies:

Flour (100%):    423.11 g  |  14.92 oz | 0.93 lbs
Water (60.1%):  254.29 g  |  8.97 oz | 0.56 lbs
IDY (0.25%): 1.06 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
Salt (1.75%): 7.4 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.54 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%): 8.63 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.92 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Sugar (0.89%): 3.77 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
Total (165.03%): 698.26 g | 24.63 oz | 1.54 lbs | TF = 0.08
Single Ball: 349.13 g | 12.32 oz | 0.77 lbs

This is one of the better crusts I've had in this style and my most successful outing with 100% KASL flour.

Tim

Tim,

I am glad you liked the pizza from the recipe I posted.  I did forget to post that I do use 1.75% Kosher Salt in the formulation Paul translated for me. :-[ You were spot on in deciding to use it.  Your pie looks really good.  ;D I like KASL too, but haven't used it for a long while since the preferment Lehmann dough thread.  I like your choice of dressings too.  I made a pizza today with the same dough, but formed the skin differently.  I will post about that tomorrow, but the rim did have good oven spring.  I probably will give a link on this thread, but will probably post the photos under NY style.

Norma

Offline parallei

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2013, 11:47:33 PM »
I did forget to post that I do use 1.75% Kosher Salt in the formulation Paul translated for me. :-[

Norma! ;D

First Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):            330.56 g  |  11.66 oz | 0.73 lbs
Water (60.1%):    198.66 g  |  7.01 oz | 0.44 lbs
IDY (.25%):            0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):           5.78 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%):    6.74 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):            2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (165.03%):   545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08

Second Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):            332.37 g  |  11.72 oz | 0.73 lbs
Water (59.2%):    196.76 g  |  6.94 oz | 0.43 lbs
IDY (.25%):            0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.28 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):            5.82 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%):    6.78 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.51 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):            2.96 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (164.13%):   545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08


Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2013, 11:54:34 PM »
Norma! ;D

First Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):            330.56 g  |  11.66 oz | 0.73 lbs
Water (60.1%):    198.66 g  |  7.01 oz | 0.44 lbs
IDY (.25%):            0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):           5.78 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%):    6.74 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):            2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (165.03%):   545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08

Second Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):            332.37 g  |  11.72 oz | 0.73 lbs
Water (59.2%):    196.76 g  |  6.94 oz | 0.43 lbs
IDY (.25%):            0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.28 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):            5.82 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%):    6.78 g | 0.24 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.51 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):            2.96 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (164.13%):   545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08

Paul,

Thanks so much again!! ;D  I did put 1.75% in the expanded dough calculation tool after I saw my mistake, but I didn't post about my mistake here on the forum.   :-D  I don't know where my brain was when I didn't post the salt amount last week.  :-[  You're a great guy for doing all the work for me.   ;D

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #135 on: July 17, 2013, 08:23:59 AM »
If anyone is interested this was an experiment I did with one of the dough balls yesterday to see if more oven spring could be achieve with the same dough balls.  The dressing used were also different. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26385.msg266250.html#msg266250

One photo of that pizza.

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #136 on: July 17, 2013, 04:09:31 PM »
Norma, how long did it take these formulations to ferment? At what temp?


Those look wonderful Norma!  No salt?

I took the liberty of converting your recipes to Bakers %'s.  Will this help?

First Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):            334.1 g  |  11.78 oz | 0.74 lbs
Water (60.1%):    200.79 g  |  7.08 oz | 0.44 lbs
IDY (.25%):            0.84 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.28 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%):    6.82 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.51 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):            2.97 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (163.28%):   545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08

Second Dough (1 @ 17.5" Pie), TF = 0.080

Flour (100%):            335.95 g  |  11.85 oz | 0.74 lbs
Water (59.2%):    198.88 g  |  7.02 oz | 0.44 lbs
IDY (.25%):            0.84 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.28 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.04%):    6.85 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.52 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
Sugar (.89%):        2.99 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Total (162.38%):   545.52 g | 19.24 oz | 1.2 lbs | TF = 0.08
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 04:11:28 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #137 on: July 17, 2013, 06:23:14 PM »
Norma, how long did it take these formulations to ferment? At what temp?

Craig,

I used the first formulation for this week and the dough batches final temperatures were in the upper 70 degrees F range, because I used cold water out of the deli case.  It was very hot at market when I was making the dough balls though, as can be seen on the first photo. (I took that photo for a future post I want to make about market to see if anyone can help me) When I turn on my pizza prep fridge it takes awhile to get down to temperature when it is so hot at market.  Until I left market it still wasn't down to temperature, but when I arrived there yesterday morning the temperature of the pizza prep fridge was 39 degrees F.  It is always a juggling act to make doughs at market when the temperatures fluctuate so much from winter to summer.  I should have taken photos of what my dough batches looked like, but until I cut, scaled, balled, oiled and bagged, skins formed on top of the not formed dough balls and they do get dry when the fans are running and it is hot.  The underneath part of the unformed dough is still very moist.  The dough was sticky and stuck to my fingers when it can out of the mixer, but it became much drier as it sat out.  The second photo is of my dough balls in the pizza prep fridge yesterday morning.  The third photo is of the Detroit style dough balls in the steel pans and in the plastic bags.  I keep the deli case running all week because of the cheese stored there, but don't keep the pizza prep fridge running to save money on electric.  A repairman told Steve two weeks ago when his pizza prep fridge broke down when he was at his market (he had to leave his market in the morning because his pizza prep fridge broke down), that kind of equipment is only meant to be used in temperatures of around 80 degrees F.  Most other foods vendors at market turn their deli cases off each week and take their things back to other places.  I heard other vendors say that the hot heat is hard on deli cases and see their deli cases have ice in them at the end of the night from them running so hard.

The dough was fermented well until I arrived in the morning, but not too much.  As the day wore on the dough balls were still okay, but did get bigger.

I had problems last Friday when I went to clean market again with the deli case almost freezing up.  I had to take the doors off the deli case to defrost the coils up top again.   

I would be curious as to why you asked those questions.  Is it because of the small amount of IDY I use?

It was a little over 90 degrees F at market when I was making dough batches on Monday.

Norma 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 06:27:24 PM by norma427 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #138 on: July 18, 2013, 08:48:27 AM »
Norma,
Your refrigerators could be put on a weekly timer set to turn on day before market,no? And then for the cheese; if you could possibly squeeze in a little "dorm room" type of refrig. somewhere that would take care of running the deli case too much. Or, possibly a fellow marketer has room in a regular frig. where you could store your cheese during the week.
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #139 on: July 18, 2013, 10:12:04 AM »
Norma,
Your refrigerators could be put on a weekly timer set to turn on day before market,no? And then for the cheese; if you could possibly squeeze in a little "dorm room" type of refrig. somewhere that would take care of running the deli case too much. Or, possibly a fellow marketer has room in a regular frig. where you could store your cheese during the week.

Bob,

I never thought about a weekly timer to turn on the pizza prep fridge.  I think it would be down to the temperature I want if the timer was set for early Monday morning.  Thanks for that idea!  ;)

I don't think a dorm room fridge would hold all of my cheeses though because I have over 45 lbs. of cheeses most of the time at market.  I also have a few other things that need refrigerated too.  The only other vendor I know of that leaves their fridges on is the one vendor that sells fried and broasted chicken.  I know they let leftover chicken in their fridge from one week to the next, so I wouldn't want my cheeses in there with that leftover chicken.  I only know about that chicken from one time the power went off at market for awhile on a non-market day.  When I got to market someone told me about the chicken in the fridge until the next week.

Norma 

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #140 on: July 18, 2013, 10:40:18 AM »
Glad to be of assistance Norma....try Home Depot for the timer.  ;)

Hey...broasted chicken!?  :drool:   Haven't had that in over 25 yrs.; back home we had a little mom an pop country restaurant that was the only place in town to get that stuff...the chicken and the big broasted tater wedges. Thanks for the memory!  :chef:
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #141 on: July 18, 2013, 04:53:51 PM »
Glad to be of assistance Norma....try Home Depot for the timer.  ;)

Hey...broasted chicken!?  :drool:   Haven't had that in over 25 yrs.; back home we had a little mom an pop country restaurant that was the only place in town to get that stuff...the chicken and the big broasted tater wedges. Thanks for the memory!  :chef:

Bob,

I will check out Home Depot for the timer.  Hopefully by tomorrow night or Saturday it will be a little cooler in our area.  I went today and got flour and cheese and took them to market, cleaned and did a few other errands and it was way too hot out for me.

Yep, they have broasted chicken and broasted potato wedges at that chicken stand, plus other stuff.  It is a Amish family that owns that stand.

Norma


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #142 on: July 22, 2013, 02:45:21 PM »
I tried making a few tomato pies last week. I have a lot to learn, notwithstanding, I don't see this ever being my favorite style.

These are:
KAAP (would have used KABF but didn't have any)
64% water
2% salt
2% evoo
1% sugar
0.03% IDY

24 hours in balls at 64F. Baked at 550F for about 8 minutes.

The red peppers on the pie in the first picture are Anaheim peppers that turned red in the garden and I cured sott'olio. That was the best pie by far. I clearly used more pepperoni that I should have on the pepperoni pie, but that is a family demand that must be met.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #143 on: July 22, 2013, 09:57:56 PM »
I tried making a few tomato pies last week. I have a lot to learn, notwithstanding, I don't see this ever being my favorite style.

These are:
KAAP (would have used KABF but didn't have any)
64% water
2% salt
2% evoo
1% sugar
0.03% IDY

24 hours in balls at 64F. Baked at 550F for about 8 minutes.

The red peppers on the pie in the first picture are Anaheim peppers that turned red in the garden and I cured sott'olio. That was the best pie by far. I clearly used more pepperoni that I should have on the pepperoni pie, but that is a family demand that must be met.

Craig,

Your tomatoes pies look delicious!  ;D I like how you fermented 24 hours in balls at 64 degrees F.

I know your real love is for Neapolitan pizzas.   :angel:

Do you mind telling me what you did with the Anaheim peppers?  I don't know what cured sott'olio is or how it is done.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #144 on: July 22, 2013, 10:35:36 PM »
Do you mind telling me what you did with the Anaheim peppers?  I don't know what cured sott'olio is or how it is done.

This was a modified (for speed) approach that was really a proof-of-concept for a larger project, but the end product was quite tasty. Basically, I cut them in half, salted them, and let them sit until they had given up most of their water. I then washed them in vinegar, poured hot EVOO on them and let them sit overnight.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #145 on: July 23, 2013, 06:45:11 AM »
This was a modified (for speed) approach that was really a proof-of-concept for a larger project, but the end product was quite tasty. Basically, I cut them in half, salted them, and let them sit until they had given up most of their water. I then washed them in vinegar, poured hot EVOO on them and let them sit overnight.

Craig,

Thanks for telling me what you did with the Anaheim peppers.  That sounds like something interesting to try with peppers.  Looking forward to hearing about you larger project.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #146 on: August 01, 2013, 07:58:32 AM »
In one batch of my doughs on Monday I used 1 regular frozen dough ball and 2 frozen Detroit style doughs.  The finished dough was more sticky than usual and then I used the same method of balling that I do for the Detroit style dough, in that I do flour each scaled dough a little before balling.  It now makes me wonder just what happened with those dough balls it that they were easier to open.  I don't know if that was from adding old dough, maybe a higher hydration, or the flouring method I then used from the more sticky dough.  I didn't have time to taste any of those pizzas, but the dough balls handled beautifully.  It was a lot less humid and cooler when I made the dough batches on Monday too.

Norma

Offline Markus M.

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #147 on: August 01, 2013, 09:59:25 PM »
Umm UM! Those pies look good!  :drool: dang it! now im hungry. good job!

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #148 on: August 01, 2013, 10:35:37 PM »
Umm UM! Those pies look good!  :drool: dang it! now im hungry. good job!

Markus,

Thanks for your kind words!

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #149 on: August 04, 2013, 08:52:29 PM »
I finally got to try a Maruca's pizza today. http://www.marucaspizza.com/   My daughter and granddaughter went to Seaside Heights to visit and brought me home 2 slices of Maruca's pepperoni pizza.  They purchased a whole pizza and took two slices out of the whole pizza for me.  I thought Maruca's pizza was very good, but the cheese doesn't taste anything like Mack's or Manco & Mancos cheese.  The crust was better than a Mack's pizza in my opinion and had more taste in the crust than a Mack's pizza.  It seems like there is some kind of buttery taste in the rim crust of Maruca's pizza. 

The BS is sure good for reheating slices.  The bottom crust was was very crispy after the reheat and to reheat a slice sure is quick. 

Norma