Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 66371 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #300 on: August 23, 2013, 06:26:06 PM »
Thanks Norma, that's high praise indeed!  I thought it was funny that she used the word "phenomenal", considering she is 8   ;D

I used King Arthur bread flour for this batch, and olive oil for the oil. 

How long have you been keeping your dough in the fridge/cooler?  Normally I keep it in the fridge for a day.

Andy,

You deserve the praise.  That is amazing that your 8 year old daughter used the work phenomenal to describe your tomato pie.  My 3 year great-granddaughter says some things that kind of amaze me too.  She is explaining something sometimes and then says well actually and goes on and on. 

Thanks for telling me what flour you used.  I use olive oil too.

Since market conditions limit when I can make dough for a Tuesday I only do a one day cold ferment.  I did use the preferment Lehmann dough for awhile for my pizzas, which including making a preferment on a Friday and then incorporating the preferment into the final dough on a Monday and then a one day cold ferment.  I really liked those pizzas, but it was hard to try and decide on a Friday how many batches of dough I would need for a Tuesday. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #301 on: August 23, 2013, 06:32:28 PM »
lol, yeah, there is a dumpster in the center of the lot.  You'd be better off just walking adjacent to the entrance though.  They leave the kitchen door open in the summer for you to get a great view of the prep room.

BenLee,

Thanks for telling me the dumpster is in the center of the parking lot.  I can think of some things I might say if I am not to nervous to go in there.  Thanks also for telling me that I would be better off just walking adjacent to the entrance.  The tip about the kitchen door being open in the summer to get a great view of the prep room is cool!  ;D

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #302 on: August 23, 2013, 08:24:54 PM »
Norma,

As you prepare for your trip, I'd like to give you the benefit of my thinking on the De Lorenzo clone dough formulation to date, even if it turns out that my thinking is proven faulty in some respect as a result of what you learn.

First, my best estimate on the thickness factor is around 0.065. It may be a bit lower to compensate for the semolina and bench flour used to make the skins but, at a thickness factor of 0.065, that translates to a dough ball weight of 10 ounces for a 14" pizza and 13 ounces for a 16" pizza. Once you get below about 0.065 as a thickness factor, say, 0.05-0.06, your are in cracker crust territory. And, in a commercial setting, you are usually talking about a sheeter or roller of some sort to work with skins at that value of thickness factor. Or, in a home setting, a rolling pin or its equivalent.

Second, making a 16" skin that is uniform in thickness throughout the entire area of the skin solely by hand is not easy to do and takes some practice to accomplish on a consistent basis. I believe that it helps in De Lorenzo's case that they use a commercial mixer. That should produce a fairly robust dough to begin with. Also, I believe that it is important that the person who prepares the dough balls to the stage where they can be handed off to other workers for stretching and dressing do a good job flattening (or "pounding") the dough balls so that they are as uniformly flat as possible. Otherwise, the risk of thin spots, and even tearing, increases, especially if the dough has a high water content as discussed in the next paragraph.

Third, I believe that a dough made from a flour such as the Pillsbury Best Baker's flour, with a protein content of 12.9%, should be able to tolerate a hydration value of around 58-59%. Adding a bit of oil to the dough, such as 1.5%, should increase the extensibility somewhat (plus contribute some other benefits) but it should be possible to grasp and open a large skin to 16" in the manner shown in the De Lorenzo photos without the skin getting away from itself. However, it is highly unlikely that one will be able to toss and twirl such a skin. In fact, as I see it, if one is able to toss and twirl the skin, that perhaps means that the hydration is too low to achieve the type of crust you are after.

Fourth, for the above configuration to work, the dressed pizza has to baked long enough to drive off some of the water content of the dough and give the rim and bottom of the crust enough time to develop the proper color and charring. Depending on the state of fermentation of the dough, there may even be some bubbling in the rim. At the same time, the relatively high hydration of the dough as the pizza bakes will give the crumb some volume such that you don't end up with a crust that is too dry and cracker like.

Finally, one should expect some shrinkage in the final baked pizza, even if it is minor. So, that is something to keep in mind when you measure the diameter of the pizza. Also, workers don't always get the exact diameter of the skin time after time. Sometimes they will be too high and other times they will be too low.

What will most interest me in the context of what I have written above is the hydration value. Since there is only a small amount of oil (or oil blend) in the dough, and there is no sugar, and perhaps a modest amount of salt, and assuming that we have identified that type and brand of flour used and settled on an amount of yeast for a one-day cold fermentation in your case, that pretty much makes the hydration as the critical variable. Of course, the thickness factor value will also have to be right but that is something that can be overcome by running a few tests. Most reverse engineering and cloning exercises don't result in a home run right out of the box.

Peter

« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 08:34:34 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline BenLee

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #303 on: August 23, 2013, 09:19:31 PM »
BenLee,

Thanks for telling me the dumpster is in the center of the parking lot.  I can think of some things I might say if I am not to nervous to go in there.  Thanks also for telling me that I would be better off just walking adjacent to the entrance.  The tip about the kitchen door being open in the summer to get a great view of the prep room is cool!  ;D

Norma

No one is gonna care, its the dumpster for about 6 or 7 places.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #304 on: August 23, 2013, 09:28:13 PM »
Norma,

As you prepare for your trip, I'd like to give you the benefit of my thinking on the De Lorenzo clone dough formulation to date, even if it turns out that my thinking is proven faulty in some respect as a result of what you learn.

First, my best estimate on the thickness factor is around 0.065. It may be a bit lower to compensate for the semolina and bench flour used to make the skins but, at a thickness factor of 0.065, that translates to a dough ball weight of 10 ounces for a 14" pizza and 13 ounces for a 16" pizza. Once you get below about 0.065 as a thickness factor, say, 0.05-0.06, your are in cracker crust territory. And, in a commercial setting, you are usually talking about a sheeter or roller of some sort to work with skins at that value of thickness factor. Or, in a home setting, a rolling pin or its equivalent.

Second, making a 16" skin that is uniform in thickness throughout the entire area of the skin solely by hand is not easy to do and takes some practice to accomplish on a consistent basis. I believe that it helps in De Lorenzo's case that they use a commercial mixer. That should produce a fairly robust dough to begin with. Also, I believe that it is important that the person who prepares the dough balls to the stage where they can be handed off to other workers for stretching and dressing do a good job flattening (or "pounding") the dough balls so that they are as uniformly flat as possible. Otherwise, the risk of thin spots, and even tearing, increases, especially if the dough has a high water content as discussed in the next paragraph.

Third, I believe that a dough made from a flour such as the Pillsbury Best Baker's flour, with a protein content of 12.9%, should be able to tolerate a hydration value of around 58-59%. Adding a bit of oil to the dough, such as 1.5%, should increase the extensibility somewhat (plus contribute some other benefits) but it should be possible to grasp and open a large skin to 16" in the manner shown in the De Lorenzo photos without the skin getting away from itself. However, it is highly unlikely that one will be able to toss and twirl such a skin. In fact, as I see it, if one is able to toss and twirl the skin, that perhaps means that the hydration is too low to achieve the type of crust you are after.

Fourth, for the above configuration to work, the dressed pizza has to baked long enough to drive off some of the water content of the dough and give the rim and bottom of the crust enough time to develop the proper color and charring. Depending on the state of fermentation of the dough, there may even be some bubbling in the rim. At the same time, the relatively high hydration of the dough as the pizza bakes will give the crumb some volume such that you don't end up with a crust that is too dry and cracker like.

Finally, one should expect some shrinkage in the final baked pizza, even if it is minor. So, that is something to keep in mind when you measure the diameter of the pizza. Also, workers don't always get the exact diameter of the skin time after time. Sometimes they will be too high and other times they will be too low.

What will most interest me in the context of what I have written above is the hydration value. Since there is only a small amount of oil (or oil blend) in the dough, and there is no sugar, and perhaps a modest amount of salt, and assuming that we have identified that type and brand of flour used and settled on an amount of yeast for a one-day cold fermentation in your case, that pretty much makes the hydration as the critical variable. Of course, the thickness factor value will also have to be right but that is something that can be overcome by running a few tests. Most reverse engineering and cloning exercises don't result in a home run right out of the box.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for giving me the benefit of your thinking on the De Lorenzo dough formulation you have to this date, before I go to De Lorenzo's tomorrow. 

I thought the TF was going to be fairly low.  Interesting that the dough ball weighs you have in mind are 10 ounces for a 14” pizza and 13 ounces for a 16” pizza.  I know some about cracker crusts from the experiments I have done. 

I understand that making a 16” skin that is uniform in thickness throughout the entire area of the skin if it is stretched solely by hand would need some practice to be able to do that.  I agree that the person who prepares the dough balls to the stage where they can be handed off to other workers for stretching and dressing do a good job flattening/or pounding the dough balls so they are uniformly as flat as possible. 

Good to hear you believe with a hydration between 58-59% and adding a bit of oil it should increase the extensibility somewhat and it could make a skin like De Lorenzo's without getting away from itself. 

I will try to really look at the dough balls and the way they open their dough balls at De Lorenzo's to see if I see any clues on how robust or fragile that dough and skin are and also if I can judge what hydration they might be. 

I understand about the shrinkage from the bake and know workers don't always get the exact diameter of the skin time after time. 

I know from other reverse engineering and cloning exercises I should not expect a home run right away.

I am getting excited about trying a De Lorenzo's pizza.  Do you think there would be any value in trying the Delo's on Sloan?  Bill mentioned to me we could try them both if I wanted. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #305 on: August 23, 2013, 09:31:24 PM »
No one is gonna care, its the dumpster for about 6 or 7 places.

BenLee,

That is what I thought by looking at the dumpsters on Google Maps, but I might need a few drinks to get enough nerve up to actually open those doors to be able to look.  If someone would come out to the dumpsters from De Lorenzo's I would be embarrassed.   :-[ 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #306 on: August 23, 2013, 10:14:03 PM »
I thought the TF was going to be fairly low.  Interesting that the dough ball weighs you have in mind are 10 ounces for a 14” pizza and 13 ounces for a 16” pizza.  I know some about cracker crusts from the experiments I have done. 
Norma,

I neglected to mention that I did not pull the thickness factor out of a hat. To come up with a probable value, I arbitrarily made an eight ounce test dough ball and let it cold ferment for a day, during which time it increased in volume by about 2 1/2 times. After tempering the dough ball, I flattened it out as uniformly as I could, and then gradually opened it up until the thickness was as close as I could get it to what the De Lorenzo photos showed. I had my iPad with me in the kitchen so that I could compare my skin thickness with what was shown in the photos. When I was satisfied that I had come as close as possible to what I saw in the photos, after much tweaking of the diameter of the skin, I weighed the opened skin and, based on its radius, calculated the thickness factor. I had estimated that the thickness factor would be close to 0.065, maybe a bit less. The calculated value was 0.065. I used that value to extrapolate to the 10 ounce and 13 ounce dough ball weights. It appears that De Lorenzo's may be using a 16" x 17" or 16" x 18" wooden peel with a 19" or 20" handle, so it is possible that the large skin is not quite 16" judging from the photos. That is why your measurement might be important.

I followed the above test with another test dough ball that weighed 13 ounces, for a 16" skin. That dough ball was made and managed like the first one. I had no trouble flattening and opening that dough ball to 16". It was extensible, not elastic, and it could not be tossed or twirled. I was using General Mills all-purpose flour, which is all I had on hand for the tests, but I supplemented it with some vital wheat gluten to increase its protein content to 12.9% and give it a bit more structure. After I made the skin, I left it on my wooden peel that I had lightly dusted with bench flour to see if it would stick to the peel. It did not, even after a couple of hours sitting on the peel.

Photos in two dimensions can sometimes be deceiving but I felt the the skins I made were in the thickness factor ballpark.

I ended up discarding the skins. It has been around 100 degrees F here in Texas for several days and I was not anxious to turn on my oven to make pizzas. But the skins served their purpose.

I am not sure that visiting the Sloan De Lorenzo pizzeria will serve much purpose if it is the Robbinsville tomato pie that you would like to replicate. Of course, if you and Trenton Bill are hungry for more pizza, then that is a different story.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #307 on: August 23, 2013, 10:50:44 PM »
Norma,

I neglected to mention that I did not pull the thickness factor out of a hat. To come up with a probable value, I arbitrarily made an eight ounce test dough ball and let it cold ferment for a day, during which time it increased in volume by about 2 1/2 times. After tempering the dough ball, I flattened it out as uniformly as I could, and then gradually opened it up until the thickness was as close as I could get it to what the De Lorenzo photos showed. I had my iPad with me in the kitchen so that I could compare my skin thickness with what was shown in the photos. When I was satisfied that I had come as close as possible to what I saw in the photos, after much tweaking of the diameter of the skin, I weighed the opened skin and, based on its radius, calculated the thickness factor. I had estimated that the thickness factor would be close to 0.065, maybe a bit less. The calculated value was 0.065. I used that value to extrapolate to the 10 ounce and 13 ounce dough ball weights. It appears that De Lorenzo's may be using a 16" x 17" or 16" x 18" wooden peel with a 19" or 20" handle, so it is possible that the large skin is not quite 16" judging from the photos. That is why your measurement might be important.

I followed the above test with another test dough ball that weighed 13 ounces, for a 16" skin. That dough ball was made and managed like the first one. I had no trouble flattening and opening that dough ball to 16". It was extensible, not elastic, and it could not be tossed or twirled. I was using General Mills all-purpose flour, which is all I had on hand for the tests, but I supplemented it with some vital wheat gluten to increase its protein content to 12.9% and give it a bit more structure. After I made the skin, I left it on my wooden peel that I had lightly dusted with bench flour to see if it would stick to the peel. It did not, even after a couple of hours sitting on the peel.

Photos in two dimensions can sometimes be deceiving but I felt the the skins I made were in the thickness factor ballpark.

I ended up discarding the skins. It has been around 100 degrees F here in Texas for several days and I was not anxious to turn on my oven to make pizzas. But the skins served their purpose.

I am not sure that visiting the Sloan De Lorenzo pizzeria will serve much purpose if it is the Robbinsville tomato pie that you would like to replicate. Of course, if you and Trenton Bill are hungry for more pizza, then that is a different story.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining the experiments you did to determine what dough ball weights to use for a 14” and 16” pizza.  I know you go into great detail in any reverse engineering and cloning threads you work on and those experiments were no exception.  It was interesting to hear how went about that.

The second test with the dough ball that weighed 13 ounces for the 16” skin sounded interesting in that you had no trouble flattening and opeing that dough ball to 16”.  The part about the skin being extensible, but not elastic is also interesting.  I am not sure if I ever made a dough ball like that before. 

I can understand you didn't want to make those skins into pizzas since it was so hot where you live in Texas. 

Trenton Bill has eaten at both De Lorenzo's old locations and he told me both the Hudson St. location and the Hamilton St. locations of De Lorenzo's had good pizzas and they weren't really all that different.  Maybe that is just Trenton Bill's opinion though.  If we have time and are hungry enough for pizzas I think it would be interesting to go back to back in trying both pizzas.  I also would like to compare how both of their dough balls look like and how they open their dough balls at both locations.  I am not interested in trying the clone the Sloan De Lorenzo's pizza though. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #308 on: August 24, 2013, 07:28:12 AM »
Peter,

This Slice review was by someone that was at the two locations of De Lorenzo's on Hamilton St. and Hudson St in 2005. http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2005/01/delorenzos-toma.html  I think the article tells there can be differences in opinions on which De Lorenzo's pizza was the best.  I am sure you have read the review, but I just wanted to post it since Rich Defabritus (Slice Correspondent) said each De Lorenzo's has its own rabid following.  Rich thought there appeared to be cornmeal in the dough/or crust.  I know it can be confusing if it was cornmeal or semolina though.  I had meant to take photos of the fine cornmeal and semolina I had at market yesterday, but I forgot to take those photos to compare what they look like.  I would be more inclined like you to think it might be semolina because I saw what a mess cornmeal can be when making the MM pizzas.  I thought it was interesting too that Rick said every bite snapped, crackled and popped and the crust was light and airy with excellent flavor and chewiness, seemingly deep-fried. 

Rich also said there were small and large pies, eight and 10 slices respectively at the Hudson St. location. I just wanted to note that both pizzas looked similar to me in that article.  Rich also said the entire tomato-pie-making process seems to be done with more care than any other pizza establishment he had ever seen.  Rich said the taste was completely different from the Hamilton location.  I wonder why he said the crust had a smoky taste.  I don't think I saw the part about the smoky taste in other articles. 

Rich said the Hudson St. De Lorenzo's was his wifes favorite, but he always preferred Hamilton St, but could be swayed.

The photos Rich posted I don't think look exactly like the pies look like now at the Robbinsville location

Norma
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 07:38:20 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #309 on: August 24, 2013, 07:51:56 AM »
Norma,

Yes, I did see that Slice article. I was waiting for an opening to note that the small pizza has eight slices and the large pizza has ten slices. That doesn't  translate into pizza sizes but at least connotes size. My recollection is that the slices at the Hamilton De Lorenzo restaurant were cut into regular triangle pieces. I would imagine that is also the practice at the newer Sloan location.

BTW, one of the nice things about the Robbinsville location is that it has a BYOB policy. However, I don't want you and Trenton Bill to imbibe so much that everything becomes a blur and you can't remember the next day that you were even in the restaurant. And we don't want to hear that the police found you and Trenton Bill passed out in the dumpster the next morning with an empty bottle of limoncello clutched in your hand.

Have a great time. I look forward to your report.

Peter


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #310 on: August 24, 2013, 08:14:44 AM »
Norma,

Yes, I did see that Slice article. I was waiting for an opening to note that the small pizza has eight slices and the large pizza has ten slices. That doesn't  translate into pizza sizes but at least connotes size. My recollection is that the slices at the Hamilton De Lorenzo restaurant were cut into regular triangle pieces. I would imagine that is also the practice at the newer Sloan location.

BTW, one of the nice things about the Robbinsville location is that it has a BYOB policy. However, I don't want you and Trenton Bill to imbibe so much that everything becomes a blur and you can't remember the next day that you were even in the restaurant. And we don't want to hear that the police found you and Trenton Bill passed out in the dumpster the next morning with an empty bottle of limoncello clutched in your hand.

Have a great time. I look forward to your report.

Peter

Peter,

I have looked at so many pizzas from both De Lorenzo's location that my mind gets foggy if the slices at the Hamilton De Lorezno's restaurant were cut into regular triangle pieces or not.  I think I did read that the Hudson St. location and maybe the new Robbinsville De Lorenzo's used a clam cutter to cut their pizzas.  I want to see if I see that or not.

I saw the Robbinsville location has a BYOB policy.  I have a bottle of wine to take along for today, but Trenton Bill isn't much of a drinker, so I will see if he wants some of the wine.  I don't really imbibe that much either, but might need a few more drinks than normal today and especially if I can't get to sleep tonight.  Lol about the police finding Trenton Bill and me passed out in the dumpster with an empty bottle of limoncello in my hand.  That limoncello sure would do that if I drank even half of a bottle.

Thanks for saying to have a great time.

Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #311 on: August 24, 2013, 09:21:11 AM »


From the Robbinsville Observer.....

"While sleeping it off in a near by dumpster, the dear lady was observed to evidently have an iron grip on a beverage bottle containing an alcoholic drink known as Limoncello" 

Have a nice day Norma  :)
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Offline beaunehead

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #312 on: August 24, 2013, 10:47:58 AM »
Honestly, the two Delorenzo's have little more in common than the name. And, I don't know anyone....or of anyone...who is a fanatic of Delorenzo's Pizza (not Robbinsville or Hudson) . To me....comparing them is really a waste of time, as the "Pizza" place is nothing special...and really never has been. I think Gary Amico, Sam's father, tinkered and tinkered until he came up with what he did. The "Pizza" place, I think , even uses a rolling machine to roll out their dough..or "open" it...

I don't dislike the place, really..and have been there 4-5 times. But...never was really dying to go back. It was open for lunch and more days than Hudson St. was...so...for spontaneity...it was convenient.

I am curious about the new Papa's in Robbinsville....though....have only been to Papa's once, and it was good. But, another place I went to because I was in Trenton and it was open for lunch.

Look forward to the CIA-coded report from the dumpster.
Stuart

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #313 on: August 24, 2013, 11:41:04 AM »
In the opening post of the Trenton thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg44267.html#msg44267, it was reported that De Lorenzo/Hamilton was possibly using a roller or similar apparatus to form the skins. Unfortunately, the link to the Yahoo! article cited in that post no longer works and I could not find a copy of the article in the archives of the Wayback Machine. However, the other day I found a photo that appears to show a dough roller in the corner and to the left of the ovens at the old Hamilton location. That photo can be seen at http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110801-delorenzos-pizza-trenton-04.jpg. What puzzles me, however, is why the dough roller is so far away from what appears to be the make station.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #314 on: August 24, 2013, 02:15:24 PM »
BenLee,

That is what I thought by looking at the dumpsters on Google Maps, but I might need a few drinks to get enough nerve up to actually open those doors to be able to look.  If someone would come out to the dumpsters from De Lorenzo's I would be embarrassed.   :-[ 

Norma

Just bring an old soda can or something and act like you were just throwing it away.

Offline BenLee

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #315 on: August 24, 2013, 02:18:54 PM »
Honestly, the two Delorenzo's have little more in common than the name. And, I don't know anyone....or of anyone...who is a fanatic of Delorenzo's Pizza (not Robbinsville or Hudson) . To me....comparing them is really a waste of time, as the "Pizza" place is nothing special...and really never has been. I think Gary Amico, Sam's father, tinkered and tinkered until he came up with what he did. The "Pizza" place, I think , even uses a rolling machine to roll out their dough..or "open" it...

I don't dislike the place, really..and have been there 4-5 times. But...never was really dying to go back. It was open for lunch and more days than Hudson St. was...so...for spontaneity...it was convenient.

I am curious about the new Papa's in Robbinsville....though....have only been to Papa's once, and it was good. But, another place I went to because I was in Trenton and it was open for lunch.

Look forward to the CIA-coded report from the dumpster.

Gary just did it Chick's way.  My wife's grandparents were patrons of the Hudson St. location since its inception.  Chick was making pies into the late 80s with Gary kinda as his apprentice.  My wife swears that Chick made the best pies at the location back in the 80s with Gary a close second and Sammy obviously not far behind.  I think its more of a nostalgia thing though rather than actual difference.

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #316 on: August 24, 2013, 02:52:17 PM »
Norma,

You might ask them if they would sell you a dough ball to take home and bake in your home oven.  A lot of pizza places will do that if you ask nicely.  Bring along your digital scale and immediately weigh the dough ball after purchase.  This would provide some valuable information if you can pull it off.   :D

--Tim

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #317 on: August 24, 2013, 02:53:17 PM »
Been in Hamilton for awhile.  Bill has already been feeding me too much.

Norma
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #318 on: August 24, 2013, 02:57:39 PM »
Norma,

You might ask them if they would sell you a dough ball to take home and bake in your home oven.  A lot of pizza places will do that if you ask nicely.  Bring along your digital scale and immediately weigh the dough ball after purchase.  This would provide some valuable information if you can pull it off.   :D

--Tim
Believe me Tim, Norma didn't start doing this jus last month.  ;D
Amongst the elite dumpster diving crowd she is known as "No Nonsense Norma"!  8)
Trip-N!!  :-D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Hobbs

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #319 on: August 24, 2013, 04:50:05 PM »
Glad to hear you will be trying a DeLorenzos tomato pie, Norma!! Hope it's not anti-climactic after all the hype! Lol

I think it won't be...IMO, the best pie ever