Author Topic: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”  (Read 97712 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #825 on: October 09, 2013, 04:17:14 PM »
So...if someone (like me) had the energy for one attempted formulation this weekend....which # is the "peeples'" choice here ?

I got my mini-digital-scale now. So, no excuses, I guess.

Stuart,

I wish I could help you find the right formulation to try in your oven.  What temperature does you Baker's Pride go up to?  As you possibly saw I also had tried different formulations of Peter's.  As far as the dough handling well I liked the last formulation I tried.

Good to hear you have a mini-measuring digital scale now.

Trenton Bill also has tried different formulations in his Blackstone oven and is still trying as of today.   Bill said he would call me if his attempt went well at lunch today, but he has not called me.

I soon have to get De Lorenzo/Sloan frozen dough ball out and try that in my Blackstone unit to now see how that dough handles.  I did like that dough when I tried it in how it handled and baked, but have learned things along the way.  I don't know what I would think of that dough now in my BS.  I also don't know if the yeast might not be good anymore in that dough.

Norma


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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #826 on: October 09, 2013, 04:30:33 PM »
Thanks, Norma...it sounds like that last formulation could be used in those pizza spinning/throwing competitions.

My oven can consistently maintain 650, as measured by an IR thermometer on the stone. But, I try to cook between 550 and 600 max, sometimes 525. I'm looking for an 9:30-10:00 bake. I've never thought my oven was an issue, as I've made some awfully satisfying Delorenzo style pies over the years, though not copies. I think my dough formulation is the bigger issue. That's why this thread interests me so much.

What has always intrigued me about the Hudson pies was how close they came to "cracker" style, without actually making "cracker" style as the result always had a component of "bread" to it. That's why whatever they do is pizza perfection to me: like a great wine (or beer, I guess), the components are in harmony. And, balance is a very very difficult goal to accomplish.
Stuart

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #827 on: October 09, 2013, 05:23:27 PM »
Thanks, Norma...it sounds like that last formulation could be used in those pizza spinning/throwing competitions.

My oven can consistently maintain 650, as measured by an IR thermometer on the stone. But, I try to cook between 550 and 600 max, sometimes 525. I'm looking for an 9:30-10:00 bake. I've never thought my oven was an issue, as I've made some awfully satisfying Delorenzo style pies over the years, though not copies. I think my dough formulation is the bigger issue. That's why this thread interests me so much.

What has always intrigued me about the Hudson pies was how close they came to "cracker" style, without actually making "cracker" style as the result always had a component of "bread" to it. That's why whatever they do is pizza perfection to me: like a great wine (or beer, I guess), the components are in harmony. And, balance is a very very difficult goal to accomplish.


Stuart,

I don't know if the last formulation Peter posted could be used in those pizza spinning/throwing competitions.  I could toss the last formulation I tried one time, but don't know if I could have tossed it if the dough had not fermented as much as it did.

Your Baker's Pride sounds like a great oven to try some formulations in.  I can't actually tell you at what temperature to try.  That is something you will have to find out yourself.   

I agree with you that the Hudson pies are close to a cracker style, but actually are nothing like a cracker style in how the crust really is.  I agree too whatever they do is pizza perfection, but is very difficult to accomplish.

Best of luck in your next attempt and let us know how it goes. 

Norma 

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #828 on: October 09, 2013, 08:20:39 PM »

As can be heard the pizza was crispy and crunchy as it was being cut.  It is hard to cut a pizza and try to hold the camera at the same time so the video is not the best. 

I think I over charred the bottom crust, but it did not taste burnt.  I gave some slices to a few of my regular customers and some tasted testers and they said they could not taste any burnt taste in the bottom crust.  This pizza was close, but not exactly like a real De Lorenzo/Robbinsville pizza.

Norma

Norma,

Very nice job with your latest De Lorenozo attempt!  That amount of char on the bottom looked about right to me, especially since it didn't taste burnt.  What was it about the crust that made it close, but not exactly like the real De Lorenzo pizza?

Tim
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 04:20:00 AM by RockyMountainPie »

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #829 on: October 09, 2013, 08:26:42 PM »

I, too, am curious, but this is borderline too geeky for me.

I got my mini-digital-scale now. So, no excuses, I guess.

Stuart,

Welcome to the club.  Now that you have your mini-digital scale, you'll probably be needing one of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E3EL7W/?tag=pizzamaking-20   ;D


Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #830 on: October 09, 2013, 10:45:37 PM »
Norma,

That amount of char on the bottom looked about right to me, especially since it didn't taste burnt.  What what was it about the crust that made it close, but not exactly like the real De Lorenzo pizza.

Tim

Tim,

The char really was too much even if it could not be tasted.  At De Lorenzo/Robbinsville the pizza Trenton Bill and I shared did have some char, but not to the degree mine had.  If you look at my bottom crust rim edges on the photos I posted it can be seen my whole rim edge was charred and it showed on the pizza tray when it was cut. 

It is hard to explain really what the differences are in the pizza I attempted yesterday and a real De Lorenzo's pizza at Robbinsville.  If I would have to explain some it would be there was not the right amount of crunch and crispness across the whole pizza and it was not as tender as a real De Lorenzo pizza.  My attempt had more crunch.  If you look at the photos I posted of a real De Lorenzo's pizza you can see Bill's slice did bend right after we were served at Reply 327 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg275411.html#msg275411 (second photo down), but it still was crisp.  If you never really ate a De Lorenzo pizza it would be hard to tell the differences in my opinion in how it should crunch and crisp.  Did I confused you more now?  :-D

I also want to note that Trenton Bill told me for his 14” De Lorenzo's clone attempts he has been using 6 oz. of blended sauces and 6 oz. of cheese and that seems about right to him.  I have not weighed the sauce and cheese when applying them.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #831 on: October 10, 2013, 04:15:40 AM »
Tim,

What do you and your family think of the tomato pies you have made on this thread compared to the other styles of pizzas you make?  I have seen you have been making different styles of pizzas with a lot of success.  I kind of flip flop around on what style of pizzas I like at one given point in time.

...

If I would have to explain some it would be there was not the right amount of crunch and crispness across the whole pizza and it was not as tender as a real De Lorenzo pizza.  My attempt had more crunch. 

Norma 

 

Norma,

It's funny that you should ask about what my family thinks of the tomato pies I've made on this thread compared to other styles.  The De Lorenzo #4 formulation I tried was well received by my wife and I, particularly, liked it a lot.  The kids have liked just about every pizza I've made so far except for a mustard pie.  ::) 

When working on cloning a pizza, I sometimes get puzzled looks when I try to explain to the family that I'm not trying to create the most delicious pizza they've ever had, but rather a faithful reproduction of a certain style of pizza.  I was very exacting last week on the De Lorenzo clone I made, carefully measuring ingredients to the hundredth of a gram, letting the dough ferment for 2 days, etc.  The morning we were going to have pizza, I also whipped up a Loo Waters 12 inch thin crust starting at about 10:00 a.m. and it was ready in time for lunch.  Guess which pizza the wifey preferred?  Yep.  The emergency dough Loo Waters thin.  :-D  (I have to admit it was very tasty.)  My wife is decidedly a thin crust girl and anything that isn't "crisp" is in danger of getting the dreaded "cardboard" label.

Your explanation that your pizza was not as tender as a real De Lorenzo pizza and that it had too much crunch is exactly the information I was looking for and it gives me an idea of something to try this weekend.  Thanks for that excellent description.  Also using 6 oz of cheese is less than what I've been using and may also help my "sogginess" problem so thanks for that tidbit.

Hope your granddaughter is feeling better.  She was quite the trooper to help you out at the stand, even when not feeling her best.  I always enjoy your stories of people that you meet at market and your interactions with the public.

Tim

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #832 on: October 10, 2013, 08:33:26 AM »
Norma,

It's funny that you should ask about what my family thinks of the tomato pies I've made on this thread compared to other styles.  The De Lorenzo #4 formulation I tried was well received by my wife and I, particularly, liked it a lot.  The kids have liked just about every pizza I've made so far except for a mustard pie.  ::) 

When working on cloning a pizza, I sometimes get puzzled looks when I try to explain to the family that I'm not trying to create the most delicious pizza they've ever had, but rather a faithful reproduction of a certain style of pizza.  I was very exacting last week on the De Lorenzo clone I made, carefully measuring ingredients to the hundredth of a gram, letting the dough ferment for 2 days, etc.  The morning we were going to have pizza, I also whipped up a Loo Waters 12 inch thin crust starting at about 10:00 a.m. and it was ready in time for lunch.  Guess which pizza the wifey preferred?  Yep.  The emergency dough Loo Waters thin.  :-D  (I have to admit it was very tasty.)  My wife is decidedly a thin crust girl and anything that isn't "crisp" is in danger of getting the dreaded "cardboard" label.

Your explanation that your pizza was not as tender as a real De Lorenzo pizza and that it had too much crunch is exactly the information I was looking for and it gives me an idea of something to try this weekend.  Thanks for that excellent description.  Also using 6 oz of cheese is less than what I've been using and may also help my "sogginess" problem so thanks for that tidbit.

Hope your granddaughter is feeling better.  She was quite the trooper to help you out at the stand, even when not feeling her best.  I always enjoy your stories of people that you meet at market and your interactions with the public.

Tim

Tim,

Thanks for telling me the De Lorenzo #4 formulation you tried was well received by your wife and you and you and your children liked all of your pizzas you have made so far except the mustard pie.  I can understand you would sometimes get puzzled looks when you try to explain to your family that you are not trying to create the most delicious pizza they've ever had, but a a faithful reproduction of a certain style of pizza.  Lol, about your wife liking the emergency Loo Water thin instead of all the work you went to in trying to make a De Lorenzo's pizza. 

Thanks and my granddaughter is feeling better.  The one thing I really like about market is that I do get to interact with customers and other standholders and get to know some of them pretty well.  At some pizza businesses the piemakers are stuck in the back somewhere making pizzas.  I know I would not like that.  I tried an outside stand at market for a crafts and arts show not too long after I started making pizzas.  I was stuck inside by myself making the pizzas and they were then taken outside to one of my heating and holding cabinets with someone else selling them.  I was bored being by myself inside making pizzas for 2 days.

Trenton Bill told me he is still trying to replicate the pizza he made at Reply 721 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg281237.html#msg281237 with a little more crispness to the bottom crust.  Bill does try to make this type of pizza about 3 to 4 times a week.

I am seriously doubting that I will ever be able to make a decent version of a De Lorenzo's pizza. 

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #833 on: October 10, 2013, 09:09:50 AM »
Norma,

Today I plan to make another De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test dough such as #9 but run it out to two days and use a hydration of 57.5%. I'd like to see if it is possible to make a two-day cold fermented dough that exhibits no bubbling. I am not sure whether I will lower the amount of yeast even further but I may just leave it the same as to not change another variable. BTW, on the matter of yeast, you may not be aware but it is possible to make a beautiful dough that handles and stretches beautifully without any yeast whatsoever. Of course, you won't get any fermentation activity, which requires yeast (and natural sugars), but the enzymes in the dough will still perform their assigned duties even under refrigeration and affect the gluten structure that is formed when you admix the flour and water. As an example, leaving out the yeast, the dough formulation might look like this:

Pillsbury Best Bakers Patent Flour (100%):
Water (57.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (0.20%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.80%):
Total (160.25%):
188.54 g  |  6.65 oz | 0.42 lbs
108.41 g  |  3.82 oz | 0.24 lbs
3.3 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.59 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
0.38 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.08 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
302.14 g | 10.66 oz | 0.67 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The dough (10.5 ounces) is for a 14" skin; corresponding thickness factor = 0.0682; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%; I would use the dough preparation method as described in Reply 745 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg281529.html#msg281529 but excluding the step pertaining to the yeast.

I have no idea as to how the skin without yeast would bake up. There will be moisture in the dough to expand during baking, and there would still be residual sugar to provide crust coloration. You won't find many yeast free pizza dough recipes but they do exist although often baking powder is substituted for yeast.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:39:35 AM by Pete-zza »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #834 on: October 10, 2013, 09:22:57 AM »
I am seriously doubting that I will ever be able to make a decent version of a De Lorenzo's pizza. 
Norma,

In a way, we may have a dough recipe in search of an oven. And, if the oven is a fixed element in the equation, such as your deck oven at market, you will usually have to modify the dough recipe to conform to the oven. The alternative is to modify the oven or the way it performs. That is why I previously mentioned the possibility of removing the pizza from the oven toward the end of the bake, and returning it to the oven to finish baking after it has cooled some. Using a pizza screen to limit bottom crust browning is another useful technique. Lifting the pizza in the oven to get more top heat may be another possibility. Maybe these solutions won't work in your case but they may be worth considering. Trying things out with your BlackStone oven may also be an option if you are unable to achieve the desired results with your deck oven at market.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #835 on: October 10, 2013, 09:28:34 AM »
I am seriously doubting that I will ever be able to make a decent version of a De Lorenzo's pizza. 

I'd like to try a De Lorenzo pie to know for sure, but based on my experiments, I am seriously doubting that I will ever like a De Lorenzo style pie.

I find it interesting that I love the unbaked sauce on my DS pies, but I don't like the hardly baked sauce on the tomato pies at all. It must be a function of the crust.
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #836 on: October 10, 2013, 10:27:55 AM »
Norma,

Today I plan to make another De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test dough such as #9 but run it out to two days and use a hydration of 57.5%. I'd like to see if it is possible to make a two-day cold fermented dough that exhibits no bubbling. I am not sure whether I will lower the amount of yeast even further but I may just leave it the same as to not change another variable. BTW, on the matter of yeast, you may not be aware but it is possible to make a beautiful dough that handles and stretches beautifully without any yeast whatsoever. Of course, you won't get any fermentation activity, which requires yeast (and natural sugars), but the enzymes in the dough will still perform their assigned duties even under refrigeration and affect the gluten structure that is formed when you admix the flour and water. As an example, leaving out the yeast, the dough formulation might look like this:

Pillsbury Best Bakers Patent Flour (100%):
Water (57.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (0.20%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.80%):
Total (160.25%):
188.54 g  |  6.65 oz | 0.42 lbs
108.41 g  |  3.82 oz | 0.24 lbs
3.3 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.59 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
0.38 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.08 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
302.14 g | 10.66 oz | 0.67 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The dough (10.5 ounces) is for a 14" skin; corresponding thickness factor = 0.0682; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

I have no idea as to how the skin without yeast would bake up. There will be moisture in the dough to expand during baking, and there would still be residual sugar to provide crust coloration. You won't find many yeast free pizza dough recipes but they do exist although often baking powder is substituted for yeast.

Peter

Peter,

Interesting that you plan to make another De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test dough such a #9 but run it out to two days and use a hydration of 57.5%.  I think that would work, because the almost 2 day cold fermented dough that  I just made might not have showed signs of bubbling if I could have used it when I wanted to.  I am aware that it possible to make a no yeast pizza dough from the experiments I did on the Focaccia di Recco dough and the Ultra Thin pizza crusts I fooled around with for the matzo pizzas. 

Bill is making another pizza today using your formulation #9 but with a little different dough ball weight. 

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #837 on: October 10, 2013, 10:36:41 AM »
Norma,

In a way, we may have a dough recipe in search of an oven. And, if the oven is a fixed element in the equation, such as your deck oven at market, you will usually have to modify the dough recipe to conform to the oven. The alternative is to modify the oven or the way it performs. That is why I previously mentioned the possibility of removing the pizza from the oven toward the end of the bake, and returning it to the oven to finish baking after it has cooled some. Using a pizza screen to limit bottom crust browning is another useful technique. Lifting the pizza in the oven to get more top heat may be another possibility. Maybe these solutions won't work in your case but they may be worth considering. Trying things out with your BlackStone oven may also be an option if you are unable to achieve the desired results with your deck oven at market.

Peter

Peter,

I understand in a way we may have a dough recipe in search of an oven.  I also understand I should try removing the pizza from my deck oven towards the end of the bake and returning it to the oven to finish baking after it has cooled some.  I had wanted to try the De Lorenzo/Sloan frozen dough in my BS with a lower TF this week, but it is supposed to rain in our area the next few days.  I would think if some of those workers have moved form De Lorenzo/Sloan/Hamilton to De Lorenzo/Robbinsville/Hudson there might not be too many differences in the two doughs.  I will think over you ideas about trying the BS too.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #838 on: October 10, 2013, 10:46:15 AM »
I'd like to try a De Lorenzo pie to know for sure, but based on my experiments, I am seriously doubting that I will ever like a De Lorenzo style pie.

I find it interesting that I love the unbaked sauce on my DS pies, but I don't like the hardly baked sauce on the tomato pies at all. It must be a function of the crust.

Craig,

You should try a De Lorenzo attempt at least one time to see what you think of one.  I know what style of pizza you really like though.  What kind of oven setup would you use it you tried to make a De Lorenzo pizza?

I had thought I would not like the Red Pack and 6-in 1's combined on a pizza without other added ingredients in the sauce, but I was pleasantly surprised that I do like the fresh taste that gives to a tomato pie.  Maybe you would not be like me though.  I did try the Great Value Crushed Tomato product in combination with the Red Pack and thought that also tasted fresh.  At least for me there is something about a tomato pie at De Lorenzo/Robbinsville that reminds me of a simple pizza, but yet it is elegant for some reason.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #839 on: October 10, 2013, 10:55:13 AM »
You should try a De Lorenzo attempt at least one time to see what you think of one.  I know what style of pizza you really like though.  What kind of oven setup would you use it you tried to make a De Lorenzo pizza?

I've made several attempts. I think I posted some pictures in this thread a while back. I used my home oven on a stone.
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #840 on: October 10, 2013, 11:02:39 AM »
I've made several attempts. I think I posted some pictures in this thread a while back. I used my home oven on a stone.

Craig,

I don't think I recall the several attempts you made.  Thanks for telling me what oven set up you used.  Did your attempts on a De Lorenzo pizza get crispy on the bottom crust?

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #841 on: October 10, 2013, 11:28:19 AM »
Craig,

I don't think I recall the several attempts you made.  Thanks for telling me what oven set up you used.  Did your attempts on a De Lorenzo pizza get crispy on the bottom crust?

Norma

Yes. The family liked them. My wife really like it.
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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #843 on: October 10, 2013, 11:58:36 AM »
Stuart,

Welcome to the club.  Now that you have your mini-digital scale, you'll probably be needing one of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E3EL7W/?tag=pizzamaking-20   ;D

 ;D

Not me.....i don't need to protect my pockets from the tomato sauce.
Stuart

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #844 on: October 10, 2013, 12:52:20 PM »
Interesting that you plan to make another De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test dough such a #9 but run it out to two days and use a hydration of 57.5%.  I think that would work, because the almost 2 day cold fermented dough that  I just made might not have showed signs of bubbling if I could have used it when I wanted to.  I am aware that it possible to make a no yeast pizza dough from the experiments I did on the Focaccia di Recco dough and the Ultra Thin pizza crusts I fooled around with for the matzo pizzas. 
Norma,

I decided after all to decrease the amount of yeast for the two day cold fermentation, to 0.10% IDY. I did this on the theory that a dough does not need any yeast to be formed with ease into a compliant skin with a nice balance between elasticity and extensibility. I'm hoping that the skin will also be free of bubbling after two days. If that materializes, it might teach us something about the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough.

Peter

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #845 on: October 10, 2013, 01:35:51 PM »
This was my first attempt: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg267633.html#msg267633

Craig,

Thanks for the link to where you made that tomato pie.  I have to do something about my memory because I didn't even recall you posted about that, but I posted back to you.

Yes. The family liked them. My wife really like it.

Great to hear your family and wife liked your tomato pie.  8)

Norma
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 01:38:01 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #846 on: October 10, 2013, 01:41:39 PM »
Norma,

I decided after all to decrease the amount of yeast for the two day cold fermentation, to 0.10% IDY. I did this on the theory that a dough does not need any yeast to be formed with ease into a compliant skin with a nice balance between elasticity and extensibility. I'm hoping that the skin will also be free of bubbling after two days. If that materializes, it might teach us something about the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough.

Peter

Peter,

Good you decided to decrease the amount of yeast for the two day cold fermenation to 0.10% IDY.  I think your idea was good and might teach us something about the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough if things work out right.

Norma

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #847 on: October 11, 2013, 07:32:40 AM »
I talked to Trenton Bill last evening and he also confirmed that De Lorenzo/Hudson used to use the Santuzzi canola/olive oil blend just as MTPIZZA posted at Reply 6 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7841.msg44299.html#msg44299  He recalls the store down the street selling it too.  I tried to look up the Santuzzi canola/olive oil blend on Google images and could not find any.  I guess it doesn't really matter about the blend of oils.   

Bill also made another attempt on a De Lorenzo/Robbinsville pizza yesterday in his Blackstone unit.  His formulation was along the lines of Peter's #9 formulation at Reply 816 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg282853.html#msg282853  but he used a little bit of sugar in his formulation to try to get the bottom crust to brown better and he used a dough ball weigh of 10.5 oz.  Bill said his De Lorenzo's attempt was very good and had the right bottom crisp and crunch, but for some reason it did not taste exactly like a De Lorenzo pizza.  Bill baked his De Lorenzo's attempt at 600 degrees F.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #848 on: October 11, 2013, 08:57:03 AM »
Norma,

Like you, I did a fair amount of searching on the "Santuzzi" oil and came up empty. I agree with you that it is unlikely that the oil blend is a major factor in the success of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough or the baked pizza itself (when the oil blend is topically applied). As previously noted, the oil blend is used in small amounts and, moreover, contains a small amount of the more flavorful and rich tasting olive oil with the rest being a fairly bland soybean or canola oil. Also, you will recall that we observed different colored oils in the plastic squeeze containers shown in the various photos and videos. So, De Lorenzo/Robbinsville itself may not be wedded to any particular blend.

With respect to the flavor of Trenton Bill's latest De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone pizza, do you know offhand how long he baked the pizza in his BlackStone unit? I think it would be completely fortuitous if he were able to achieve in the BlackStone oven the identical results as De Lorenzo/Robbinsville achieves with its Blodgett deck ovens. Also, there are literally hundreds of components produced by the Maillard reactions to contribute to the flavor of the finished crust, as well as contribute to crust coloration. I would imagine that those components would be different for the two types of ovens.

FYI, for fun, but also for my own edification, I decided to make a yeast-free test dough such as was set forth in Reply 833 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg283120.html#msg283120. The formulation for that test dough is very similar to earlier De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test doughs but for the omission of the yeast and a slight increase in the hydration value. I should be able to post the results sometime after noon today.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to learn more about “Tomato Pies”
« Reply #849 on: October 11, 2013, 10:32:53 AM »
Norma,

Like you, I did a fair amount of searching on the "Santuzzi" oil and came up empty. I agree with you that it is unlikely that the oil blend is a major factor in the success of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough or the baked pizza itself (when the oil blend is topically applied). As previously noted, the oil blend is used in small amounts and, moreover, contains a small amount of the more flavorful and rich tasting olive oil with the rest being a fairly bland soybean or canola oil. Also, you will recall that we observed different colored oils in the plastic squeeze containers shown in the various photos and videos. So, De Lorenzo/Robbinsville itself may not be wedded to any particular blend.

With respect to the flavor of Trenton Bill's latest De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone pizza, do you know offhand how long he baked the pizza in his BlackStone unit? I think it would be completely fortuitous if he were able to achieve in the BlackStone oven the identical results as De Lorenzo/Robbinsville achieves with its Blodgett deck ovens. Also, there are literally hundreds of components produced by the Maillard reactions to contribute to the flavor of the finished crust, as well as contribute to crust coloration. I would imagine that those components would be different for the two types of ovens.

FYI, for fun, but also for my own edification, I decided to make a yeast-free test dough such as was set forth in Reply 833 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg283120.html#msg283120. The formulation for that test dough is very similar to earlier De Lorenzo/Robbinsville clone test doughs but for the omission of the yeast and a slight increase in the hydration value. I should be able to post the results sometime after noon today.

Peter

Peter,

I do recall that we observed different colored oils in the plastic squeeze containers shown in the various photos and videos.  I agree that De Lorenzo/Robbinsville may not be wedded to any particular blend.

I did not know how long Trenton Bill baked his pizza in the Blackstone unit.  I did call him and he said he really doesn't know how long he baked the pizza, but when he measures the temperature of the bottom stone with his IR gun is is varied across the stone, with one place measuring 575, another at 600 and another at 617 degrees F.  I have observed that from using my Blackstone unit too.  I wonder about even using the BS now to get about the same results as De Lorenzo/Robbbinsivlle  I can understand there are literally hundreds of components produced by the Maillard reaction to contribute to the flavor of the finished crust, as well as contribute to crust coloration.  I can understand those components would be different for the two types of ovens.  Even the platter height on the BS makes some differences.

Bill isn't giving up and has another dough ready for today.  The last dough he used almost like your #9 formulation he omitted oil from the dough to see what would happen.  For his dough today he added the oil back in.

Lol, about making a yeast-free test dough.  I will be curious to see how that works out.

Norma


 

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