Interesting that you think there is a stronger connection between the Trenton tomato pies and the New Jersey boardwalk pies. Thanks for the links.
I was wondering if you could please give a quick summary of your dough mixing method for the De Lorenzo clone. I looked at the previously quoted link but am still not entirely clear what you are doing. Are you still doing the 45 minute rest period after mixing and do you cover the dough during this time? Most of my dough has not been as extensible as I would have liked.
It is difficult to try to draw too many comparisons between a Mack dough and a De Lorenzo/Sloan or De Lorenzo/Robbinsville dough because we don't actually know their dough recipes. So, we are left only to try to compare clones of those doughs. That is not a terribly reliable approach although I think it is safe to say that the Mack's dough produced a thicker crust than what we believe to be the case with either of the De Lorenzo's doughs. That conclusion is based on weight data that Norma derived both from actual Mack's pizzas and our clones of those pizzas. In my opinion, it was because of the thicker Mack's skin that Norma was able to toss and spin the Mack's clone doughs. So, it is not only the hydration and/or the amount of oil that governs whether a dough can be tossed or not. Thickness factor is also implicated. The degree of fermentation is another such factor. There has to be the right balance between hydration, the amount of oil, the thickness factor, and the degree of fermentation in order to achieve the desired end results. The amount of yeast only becomes a factor when it is so large as to cause a dough to ferment too quickly or too much by the time it is to be used.
The dough preparation method I used is described in steps 1-9 that appear below the dough formulation set forth at Reply 745 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg281529.html#msg281529
. Using that method, I have been getting very good results recently as reflected by the relative ease of opening up the dough balls and getting a good balance between elasticity and extensibility. However, I have found that to get such results the combination of hydration value and the amount of oil has to be above about 56% (the range I have tested for the De Lorenzo clone doughs is about 56-59%). At values above about 56%, in my mixer all of the flour will be taken up by the dough ball using only the flat beater attachment. That time will be variable from one dough ball to another, but I just let the flat beater attachment do its job at speed 1 until all of the flour is taken up by the dough ball. Then I switch to the C-hook. I think the key to success is fully hydrating the flour and developing as good a gluten structure as the flour and the mixer will allow. As you will note, I have been leaving the dough ball uncovered during the 45-minute period. That is to simulate a rest period that De Lorenzo/Hudson purportedly used before doing the dough division. For my purpose with a single dough ball, it is good enough to either leave the dough ball uncovered in the mixer bowl or uncovered in my dough storage container. The one hour uncovered dough ball in the refrigerator simulates cross stacking. Covering the dough storage container with the lid simulates down stacking.
On the matter of oil quantity that you raised, I have been guided in my work by reports by knowledgeable members that De Lorenzo/Hudson/Robbinsville used only a small amount of oil. But words can be pesky things. Specifically, what is a small amount of oil? As I noted in Reply 587 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25401.msg278420.html#msg278420
, I considered 1% oil (or anything less for that matter) to be a small amount of oil and that I might have considered 2% oil to also be a small amount. Once we get to say, 3%, I start to scratch my head. That is on the cusp but, to me, it would be more than a small amount. But, maybe Sam Amico considers 3% oil to be small.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the type of oven and baking arrangement is a material component in the success factor. Norma has tried baking De Lorenzo clones in her deck oven at market, and she and Trenton Bill have baked De Lorenzo clones in their BlackStone ovens. And you used a baking steel. I recently commented that one of the De Lorenzo clone doughs I created was in search of an oven. It is far from clear that any De Lorenzo clone dough can be used successfully in any oven. The dough and the oven have to be matched. It's possible that the clone dough you used successfully would not produce the same results in a different oven or oven configuration. It's possible, but the only way to know is to to test the same clone dough in a different oven or oven configuration.
You are doing a very nice job with your De Lorenzo clones. And, better yet, you are able to explain what you are doing and the logic behind it.