Author Topic: An Idea  (Read 5718 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2013, 12:39:45 PM »
Craig - This doesn't count as hat eating does it?  =(  Oh well... was looking forward to a video of someone literally eating a hat!

Not at all. The hard work of #1-4 hasn't even started yet.

My comments up to this point were solely intended to get Fidel to think about the scope of the project before he started. Now that he has decided to undertake it, I'm here to encourage him.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2013, 02:04:40 PM »
Hey Fidel, this looks great so far.  It's amazing what you can accomplish in just a few hours.  I think this will be a wonderful tool for newbies and experienced users alike.  And I love the idea of linking to a thread so people can get more information.  Well done, sleep well. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #102 on: June 01, 2013, 11:20:33 AM »
Update...

Next up:
DONE - Creating interface for editing, adding and making changes to recipes.
NEXT - Add code to automatically calculate weight of ingredients based on bakers' percents, doughball counts, desired doughball weight
Adding password hashing
And a few more boring tidbits :)

Also added a separate way to search for emergency dough recipes as well as fixed up a few bugs.  :)

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #103 on: June 01, 2013, 11:22:36 AM »
BTW, input and feedback will be appreciated!

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2013, 10:51:50 AM »
Update: The app, as a software, is complete!!

Up next: Populate the ingredients list(although this can be a work in progress as we add more and more recipes)

After that: For testing purposes, I'd like to get a few of you that volunteered to login as admins and add some creative, humorous "dummy" recipes, just so we can see if everything is working correctly. After we are satisfied that the app is functioning as it should, I will empty the dummy recipes from the database. Anyway, I'll PM those volunteers in the morning.

Finally: I would like to try packing up the app and giving it to Steve, if he would accept it. Hopefully he can place it in a sub-directory on this site and link it, and even put ads on it if he likes. It is then that I think that Steve and the other administrators can give admin access to some of us who can begin populating the database with real recipes.

If there are any questions about the app, I'd be happy to answer. :)

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2013, 10:53:20 AM »
Oh, the app is still here: http://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/index.php

There are only 3 dummy recipes in the database at the moment. More to come.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2013, 12:36:34 PM »
Oh, the app is still here: http://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/index.php

There are only 3 dummy recipes in the database at the moment. More to come.


Fidel,

Just been following passively. One question (sorry if already addressed): Given its popularity, where would you put "Detroit Style" recipes? Or "Grandmother's" style? I am assuming they'd be under the Sicilian style?

Anyway, very creative and (I believe) helpful pursuit!

John K

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #107 on: June 03, 2013, 02:17:36 PM »
Fidel,

Thanks so much for your efforts on this.  It looks great so far.  A couple of questions for you:

Would it be easy enough to add some descriptive text that would appear after you hover over the various pizza types. So for instance when you hover over New York style, it might say, "thin, chewy crust, with a puffy rim, usually fermented 2-3 days prior to baking".  Or something like that.  Just so people could have an idea of what they are clicking on.  Or I guess this information will be presented for each type when the people click on the pictures. 

Also, I was kind of thinking that the dough generator would include a calculator that could calculate actual amounts. Were you planning to include that capability?

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #108 on: June 03, 2013, 08:38:40 PM »
Fidel,

Just been following passively. One question (sorry if already addressed): Given its popularity, where would you put "Detroit Style" recipes? Or "Grandmother's" style? I am assuming they'd be under the Sicilian style?

Anyway, very creative and (I believe) helpful pursuit!

John K

That's a good question and I suppose one solution is to do that, given their similarities, and that they appear to be combined on these forums like that. But it's very easy for me to add an unlimited number of styles. I'd like to ask the good people here for their opinion. Any thoughts would be appreciated. :)

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #109 on: June 03, 2013, 08:54:13 PM »
...Would it be easy enough to add some descriptive text that would appear after you hover over the various pizza types. So for instance when you hover over New York style, it might say, "thin, chewy crust, with a puffy rim, usually fermented 2-3 days prior to baking".  Or something like that.  Just so people could have an idea of what they are clicking on.  Or I guess this information will be presented for each type when the people click on the pictures. 

Information on hover? This is absolutely possible! I'll do that next. :)


Also, I was kind of thinking that the dough generator would include a calculator that could calculate actual amounts. Were you planning to include that capability?

I actually wanted to put in a simplified calculator, but I also noticed that pizzamaking.com's calculators go well beyond what I originally planned. So for the time being, I put bakers percents along with grams for 6 pies(this can be changed!), and two links that open up PM's dough calculators, which are better than anything I can come up with in a short time frame. What I's like to do is pass values from the dough generator to the dough calculators. So a user could click the link to the dough calculator and the values for bakers percents, from the recipe he/she was looking at, will automatically be entered. I'm not sure who created those calculators and unsure if they would be willing to add some _GET code to make this possible or not. In any case, I will see what I can do on my end.  ;)


Offline dough-re-mi

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2013, 10:41:55 PM »
As a long-time lurking member I want to add my support for this project too. I have a hard time seeing how I can support this forum; do people really want to see photos of my attempts?

I am learning about pizza making, and taking it more and more seriously as I get better. I could imagine a companion feature in the form of narrative or biography almost, telling the story of learning. For instance, making the same recipe numerous times to really understand the variables. The different feel of the doughs; the 'brain-dough' of cracker crust a few hours after shaping like a snow ball the cornmeal textured dough out of the food processor, or the relatively oily dough for chicago stuffed that gets kneaded almost not at all, or the trip to the big industrial steel place an hour from my house to get half inch steel and getting them to cut the aluminum road sign I happened to have, to use for homemade peels sized for bread loafs and pizza.

There is a lot of passion in pizza, and again, I want to offer my support for this project. This forum feels more incredible the more time I spend on it, and I am sure there are a lot more people like me who are ramping up to contribute more, inspired by the generosity and knowledge found here in abundance


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2013, 11:06:32 AM »
I'm not sure who created those calculators and unsure if they would be willing to add some _GET code to make this possible or not.

Fidel,

The coding of the dough calculating tools was done by a member (Mike/Boy Hits Car) who no longer is active on the forum. Also, he was using resources of a former employer that are no longer available to use to make changes in the tools. Maybe Steve has a way of making the changes you mention, but he will have to look into that.

I'd also like to mention that when I came up with the compilations of the Non-Lehmann NY style dough formulations (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.0.html) and the emergency dough formulations (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8297.0.html), I did not attempt to include every dough recipe on the forum for those styles. I laboriously went through all of the threads to find what appeared to be the best and most popular representations of those styles based on how members reacted to the results using those recipes. I even tried to prioritize the recipes as best I could on the basis of member feedback. I didn't mention it earlier, but for the Lehmann NY style recipes that I personally tried, I created a special Roadmap of the recipes, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1453.0.html. More recently, at the urging of a member who thought that the Chicago thin style pizza was getting short shrift, the compilation at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16422.0.html was created. We do not have compilations for any other styles.

Since it never has been an objective of the forum to be a recipe forum, but rather a forum where members can commune on pizza matters in general and where recipes will unavoidably be involved, I have not tried to update the compilations on a regular basis. I do not have the time to do that sort of thing.  Also, as previously mentioned, many of the recipes included in the abovementioned compilations are not standalone recipes that can be practiced with ease. Rather they are often developed over a series of posts that are often disconnected and must be read as a group to be usable. So, very often, all we have is threads with multiple versions of recipes and parts thereof, and often the threads are so long as not to make sense to cite since most people, and especially new members, will not read them. Also, for many of the best recipes, the authors are long gone from the forum. So, as a result, we have lost the people who could best put their recipes in the form that would be most useful with your proposed tool. I honestly don't know which members we have who are willing and able to put in the time and effort to populate the database with recipes in the form that makes the tool most useful. You will need to identify the team that will do the actual work. It can't be Steve or the Moderators alone, if at all. Maybe the starting point would be to incorporate the compilations mentioned above into your proposed tool, warts and all, and hope that over time the work product will be improved. Or maybe members can recommend their favorite recipes and, at the same time, take responsibility for creating the recipes in a form most suitable for the purposes for which the tool was developed. However, as I see it, there will always be a challenge getting the right people to do the actual work. 

Peter


Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2013, 12:53:40 PM »
What I'd like to do is pass values from the dough generator to the dough calculators. So a user could click the link to the dough calculator and the values for bakers percents, from the recipe he/she was looking at, will automatically be entered. I'm not sure who created those calculators and unsure if they would be willing to add some _GET code to make this possible or not. In any case, I will see what I can do on my end.  ;)

This would be very useful!  Hopefully we can get it set up.  And I'm glad to hear that "hover text" is possible as well. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2013, 09:34:49 PM »
Fidel,

The coding of the dough calculating tools was done by a member (Mike/Boy Hits Car) who no longer is active on the forum. Also, he was using resources of a former employer that are no longer available to use to make changes in the tools. Maybe Steve has a way of making the changes you mention, but he will have to look into that.


No problem. May take me a few weeks but I can incorporate a simple calculator, and expand on it with time. :)

I'd also like to mention that when I came up with the compilations of the Non-Lehmann NY style dough formulations (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.0.html) and the emergency dough formulations (at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8297.0.html), I did not attempt to include every dough recipe on the forum for those styles. I laboriously went through all of the threads to find what appeared to be the best and most popular representations of those styles based on how members reacted to the results using those recipes. I even tried to prioritize the recipes as best I could on the basis of member feedback. I didn't mention it earlier, but for the Lehmann NY style recipes that I personally tried, I created a special Roadmap of the recipes, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1453.0.html. More recently, at the urging of a member who thought that the Chicago thin style pizza was getting short shrift, the compilation at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16422.0.html was created. We do not have compilations for any other styles.


That much, in itself is a wonderful resource to begin populating the database with and does save quite a bit of time for those who have volunteered their help already, as well as myself.

Since it never has been an objective of the forum to be a recipe forum, but rather a forum where members can commune on pizza matters in general and where recipes will unavoidably be involved, I have not tried to update the compilations on a regular basis. I do not have the time to do that sort of thing.  Also, as previously mentioned, many of the recipes included in the abovementioned compilations are not standalone recipes that can be practiced with ease. Rather they are often developed over a series of posts that are often disconnected and must be read as a group to be usable. So, very often, all we have is threads with multiple versions of recipes and parts thereof, and often the threads are so long as not to make sense to cite since most people, and especially new members, will not read them.


Contrary to conventional thinking, this is ideal, and what I bolded above is also very true and is not at all a bad thing. I don't think this forum would be of much use if it were just a bunch of recipes. To give you an example, there is another forum software called phpbb 3, which is free to download, free to inistall and free to use. However, the community of phpbb has grown very large, with many members that actively support and write MODs for phpbb and even their stuff is free. The community does not see themselves as giving stuff away to non-members for free, they see it as helping each other and themselves, while slowly attracting new members, who will then become new contributors as older ones fade away. With phpbb and even other CMS's like Joomla and WordPress, you see the first contact is something for free. Out of 100 or so users who grab the software and go, 1 or 2 eventually return and get involved with the communities in some way.

Pizza may not be free software, but it's something that is quite mystical for the average home cook who has eaten plenty of commercial pizza, but has either never tried to make his/her own, or has failed several times. Like free software, even if it's at no monetary cost, the thought of having to sift through 1000's of posts here to make sense of, and obtain a dough recipe, is like phpbb, Joomla and WordPress leaving their software in threads for the public to search for, and find if they are able.

Back to "ideal" in the sense of dough recipes. Dough for pizza, once one gets the hang of some of the basics, is not that mystical at all. At present, with the recipe formulations on the top of any given thread in those compilations, a person new to pizza making can turn out a pizza that can impress one's friends and family. The the "ideal", or magic is that we can and should share as a community. Out of every 100 or so who come and grab a recipe and run, 1 or 2 will be back and will be hooked on the same passion of ours. The remaining 98 or 99? Satisfied at the very least at finally making a quality pizza! :)

Also, for many of the best recipes, the authors are long gone from the forum. So, as a result, we have lost the people who could best put their recipes in the form that would be most useful with your proposed tool. I honestly don't know which members we have who are willing and able to put in the time and effort to populate the database with recipes in the form that makes the tool most useful. You will need to identify the team that will do the actual work. It can't be Steve or the Moderators alone, if at all. Maybe the starting point would be to incorporate the compilations mentioned above into your proposed tool, warts and all, and hope that over time the work product will be improved. Or maybe members can recommend their favorite recipes and, at the same time, take responsibility for creating the recipes in a form most suitable for the purposes for which the tool was developed. However, as I see it, there will always be a challenge getting the right people to do the actual work.
 

I agree with everything you say. I can and should be the coordinator of that process from here. I have a couple of volunteers already testing for me and giving feedback. Once it's ready to go live, we will start adding those compilations only. After that, we can look at getting some consensus on other styles and maybe a few to represent those styles in the app. I think one thing should be clear though; I don't want anyone to think that the recipes that get in the database are perfect and the end all be all of a style. I expect these to be dough formulations that one can start with, turn out a quality result and, if he/she is likes, can choose to try and improve upon it, either alone, or by returning to the forum thread where it is discussed to read more about it. That said, it really isn't that important for any of us to scour an entire thread to piece together what might finally have been deemed the "best" formula of any given recipe. At the same time, I think as far as the styles already represented in Pete's compilations this app will be worth a visit or two, just to browse through those!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 09:42:35 PM by f.montoya »

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2013, 10:17:14 PM »
... And I'm glad to hear that "hover text" is possible as well. 

Regards,

TinRoof


Done...

http://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2013, 10:22:41 PM »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2013, 02:33:47 AM »
No problem. May take me a few weeks but I can incorporate a simple calculator, and expand on it with time. :)

Ha! I thought the mathematical formula was going to be hard. Turned out to be easy. I created the framework for the dough calculator that, when a user selects a recipe and wants to use it, they can select a doughball size and number of pies they want to make, hit a button and a popup will come up showing the custom adjusted amounts for each ingredient. The calculator is(will be when I get done) built into each recipe page, meaning the bakers' percents are already locked in, so the user will not have to enter anything other than those two parameters(number of doughballs and doughball size) in order to get what they want.

That's it for now.

Anyone else interested in trying out adding recipes and ingredients, send me a message. We can use a bit more help!

Offline derricktung

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2013, 09:07:45 AM »
Sorry!  I've been slow in helping!  Flying out to Boston this week... will try to get a bit done.

Offline f.montoya

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2013, 09:23:43 AM »
Sorry!  I've been slow in helping!  Flying out to Boston this week... will try to get a bit done.

Np, Derrick. Are you gonna sample some of those New England Clam pies? Or whatever they call'em?

Offline derricktung

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Re: An Idea
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2013, 11:10:20 AM »
Np, Derrick. Are you gonna sample some of those New England Clam pies? Or whatever they call'em?

You betcha!  I'm actually trying to get some feedback from the forum... I've only got time for three pie places on this trip in New Haven (one day in New Haven) so didn't know which one to cut from the list?

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