Author Topic: Home made pizza oven.  (Read 3178 times)

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Offline theideman

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Home made pizza oven.
« on: June 01, 2013, 04:41:50 PM »
I have created a portable wood fired pizza oven, I am seeing some good temperatures but am interested in knowing what a good pizza oven should run at.  Currently I am reaching stone temps of 450 in about 30 min and 650 in the next 15 minutes or so.  Also the heat entering the oven is coming in around 1000 and exiting about 650.  I will share some images if anyone is  interested.  My average cook time is around 4 - 6 minutes.  How does this compare to others ovens. 


Thanks for the help

Tom


Offline synaesthesia

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2013, 05:55:56 PM »
Do you have pics of the contraption with the door open and details of the shell construction(thickness, insulation, floor etc etc) ?

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 06:00:09 PM »
A lot of what you are asking really depends on what you are after.  Generally wood fired ovens are used for Neapolitan pizza which would be an oven ranging from 800-1000F and bake times under 90 seconds.  It's not just about temperature and bake time though, with a bottom heat only oven like you've got getting the proper balance of heat is a major issue at elevated temperatures.
-Jeff

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2013, 06:07:59 PM »
How does this compare to others ovens. 


Thanks for the help

Tom

The general problem with single burner (from below) propane fired pizza ovens is top heat.  Unless you follow the proven method of (hot) airflow, the tops of the pizzas will be anemic white and the bottom charred.  Been there done that....
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Offline theideman

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 08:46:56 PM »
The general problem with single burner (from below) propane fired pizza ovens is top heat.  Unless you follow the proven method of (hot) airflow, the tops of the pizzas will be anemic white and the bottom charred.  Been there done that....

Well I can tell you this is not a problem, the heat enters the oven and hits the stone, then it is split in 3 directions and wraps up the sides and heats the inter walls and creates a very brown (burnt if I am not carefull).  I attached a normal pizza image for you to see.

Tom

Offline theideman

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 08:54:23 PM »
Do you have pics of the contraption with the door open and details of the shell construction(thickness, insulation, floor etc etc) ?
w

I posted a picture of the first prototype with the door removed for you to see, the stone is an 18x18 by 1 inch thick, the oven is insulated with a high temperature ceramic blanket (the same stuff in commercial ovens).

Offline synaesthesia

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 09:12:04 PM »
Cool Pic of the snow in the background!

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 11:16:34 PM »
Does the exhaust flue extend into the oven, down close to the stone? Or, is the exhaust exactly as it appears and vents from the direct top only?

Nice pie.

P.S. is it top heavy?  The wheels look abit close, but you may have it different now.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 11:20:45 PM by Jet_deck »
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Online scott123

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2013, 12:06:42 AM »
Well I can tell you this is not a problem, the heat enters the oven and hits the stone

If the stone is the first point of contact, then you've got a problem.  In bottom heat scenarios, forum members have spent countless hours finding ways to bounce the heat away from the stone and up and around to the top of the pizza.  Unless you're using very thick/poorly conductive materials such as firebrick, this is generally the only way to achieve a balanced bake.

Speaking of heat balance, a huge part of the top heat equation is the infrared radiation coming down from the ceiling of the oven.  Infrared is distance dependent. The farther from the pizza, the less impact. A high dome, such as yours, only compounds the heat imbalance issue caused by a bottom heat source/lack of deflection.  In a bottom heat scenario, the tallest you want the ceiling to be is 4", max.  Every inch further away from that and you're losing precious top browning ability.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 12:08:35 AM by scott123 »

Offline synaesthesia

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2013, 06:42:52 AM »
Why does every comment you make have to model the universe of pizza making on the LBE?


Online scott123

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 07:00:15 AM »
Why does every comment you make have to model the universe of pizza making on the LBE?

I don't.  LBE's are a very small part of pizza oven thermodynamics.  I make my recommendations from a combined understanding of deck ovens, wood fired ovens, grill inserts, standalone ovens (such as the 2stone inferno), home ovens, grill setups and LBEs. It's the deck ovens, of which 99% have bottom heat sources where I draw the bulk of my knowledge on this subject. LBE's have been around for around 6 years, while the thermal engineering in deck ovens has been honed and tested over the course of at least 50 years.  Not that the principles are that different.

But, between the two, I definitely draw more knowledge from decks than I do LBEs.

And what if I WAS modeling everything on the LBE?  What's wrong with an LBE?  Within that 100 page thread, there's a lot of valuable thermodynamics knowledge.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:15:56 AM by scott123 »

Offline theideman

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 07:07:46 AM »
Does the exhaust flue extend into the oven, down close to the stone? Or, is the exhaust exactly as it appears and vents from the direct top only?

Nice pie.

P.S. is it top heavy?  The wheels look abit close, but you may have it different now.

Yes it is top heavy, I have been working on that.  The exhaust is as it appears, I do have a damper like slide to help divert the air around the chamber. Do you have a thought about this.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:18:59 AM by theideman »

Offline theideman

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 07:33:08 AM »
If the stone is the first point of contact, then you've got a problem.  In bottom heat scenarios, forum members have spent countless hours finding ways to bounce the heat away from the stone and up and around to the top of the pizza.  Unless you're using very thick/poorly conductive materials such as firebrick, this is generally the only way to achieve a balanced bake.

Speaking of heat balance, a huge part of the top heat equation is the infrared radiation coming down from the ceiling of the oven.  Infrared is distance dependent. The farther from the pizza, the less impact. A high dome, such as yours, only compounds the heat imbalance issue caused by a bottom heat source/lack of deflection.  In a bottom heat scenario, the tallest you want the ceiling to be is 4", max.  Every inch further away from that and you're losing precious top browning ability.

Thanks for your information, the current measurement is 4.23 inch from where the angle of top starts, in my thermo dynamics modeling we found that the 4.25 -4.5 to be agreeable.  As to the stone make up I am unsure I get it from a manufacturer in northern CA. As for the infared, I have actual flames entering the oven and reflecting from the angle and browning the pizza from the sides.  I am not absolutely sure the modeling software is perfect but it is close, we get a decent look at the air flow and dispersment of heat, this is why I am looking for optimal temps so I run several scenarios against the model.

Thanks again for your info

Online scott123

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 07:51:07 AM »
Tom, I'm talking about 4" to the top of the oven, not 4" to the angle where the dome begins to slope.  Wood fired ovens can have 10+" domes because the heat source is on the side and it's pumping out a boatload of heat. With a weaker bottom heat, the only way to brown the top of the pizza quickly is by bringing the dome closer to the pizza.

I am a bit intrigued by the flames, though.  Do you have a photo of the flames?  Is it correct to assume that the stone is engulfed by flames or is the burner positioned outside the stone area?

Offline theideman

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2013, 08:22:54 AM »
Tom, I'm talking about 4" to the top of the oven, not 4" to the angle where the dome begins to slope.  Wood fired ovens can have 10+" domes because the heat source is on the side and it's pumping out a boatload of heat. With a weaker bottom heat, the only way to brown the top of the pizza quickly is by bringing the dome closer to the pizza.

I am a bit intrigued by the flames, though.  Do you have a photo of the flames?  Is it correct to assume that the stone is engulfed by flames or is the burner positioned outside the stone area?
  I do not have an image, will get one on the next burn,  the furnace under the oven is designed around the updraft principal, because of this the fire is drawn into the oven, it is not uncommon to have 3 - 6 inch flames.  I will post images as soon as I get them.



Offline synaesthesia

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 08:36:40 AM »
I don't.  LBE's are a very small part of pizza oven thermodynamics.  I make my recommendations from a combined understanding of deck ovens, wood fired ovens, grill inserts, standalone ovens (such as the 2stone inferno), home ovens, grill setups and LBEs. It's the deck ovens, of which 99% have bottom heat sources where I draw the bulk of my knowledge on this subject. LBE's have been around for around 6 years, while the thermal engineering in deck ovens has been honed and tested over the course of at least 50 years.  Not that the principles are that different.

But, between the two, I definitely draw more knowledge from decks than I do LBEs.

And what if I WAS modeling everything on the LBE?  What's wrong with an LBE?  Within that 100 page thread, there's a lot of valuable thermodynamics knowledge.

Temperature management is part of every oven, every WFO included. Give the guy a chance, your posts are just contrarian.

Online scott123

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2013, 09:00:30 AM »
Temperature management is part of every oven, every WFO included. Give the guy a chance, your posts are just contrarian.

Temperature management is part of every oven... Wow, that's really deep. I don't know if I can get my head around that  ::)

I am the third person in this thread to point out the heat balance issue with this oven. Why are you attacking me and not them?

Hey, Jeff and Gene, stop being contrarian!  :-D


Offline shuboyje

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2013, 10:26:57 AM »
Temperature management is part of every oven... Wow, that's really deep. I don't know if I can get my head around that  ::)

I am the third person in this thread to point out the heat balance issue with this oven. Why are you attacking me and not them?

Hey, Jeff and Gene, stop being contrarian!  :-D

Don't know if I can.  I feel compelled to give the same advice I give for all bottom heat only ovens.  You need an over sized heat source, this j style rocket stove looks pretty decent size wise.  You need a major deflector between the flame and the stone, and you need as low a dome as possible. 

Just remember your CFD models will only be as good as those interpreting them, and in my opinion you won't find more knowledge of pizza oven thermodynamics then right here.  That is why there are so many poorly engineered pizza devices on the market.
-Jeff

Offline theideman

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2013, 12:56:24 PM »
Don't know if I can.  I feel compelled to give the same advice I give for all bottom heat only ovens.  You need an over sized heat source, this j style rocket stove looks pretty decent size wise.  You need a major deflector between the flame and the stone, and you need as low a dome as possible. 

Just remember your CFD models will only be as good as those interpreting them, and in my opinion you won't find more knowledge of pizza oven thermodynamics then right here.  That is why there are so many poorly engineered pizza devices on the market.

I agree with the need for oversize heat source, we tested 3 sizes and our current size provides both enough heat but not over power the stone.  I have been testing and redesigning the deflector for three months still not happy though.  As for the low dome, I also use this oven for baking breads and other things, so the dome height was designed with multi purpose in mind.

Online scott123

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Re: Home made pizza oven.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2013, 01:09:15 PM »
Tom, do you know the BTU rating of the burner you finally went with?

Also, I'm curious, is this oven for personal use or are you considering selling it commercially?


 

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