Author Topic: mondial forni anyone?  (Read 1346 times)

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Offline fernandolira

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mondial forni anyone?
« on: June 02, 2013, 01:17:55 PM »
hello .. : )
i'm looking for electric ovens for my imaginary pizza shop hahaha..
im in the budget stage..
i'm looking for this oven..
http://www.mondialforni.it/prodotto.asp?lang=EN&id=304&id_tab=308
the Mondial forni Ho.Re.Ca Domino pizza..

has anyone tried it?

any recommendations?

i'm looking for an electric oven with pizza brick and a good interface..
i don't know.. some digital panel to know how is the heat doing and things like that..
this one looks good.. but i cant find any post about mondial forni sooo....

thanks everyone!

cheers!



scott123

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 02:16:52 PM »
Fernando, welcome to the forum.

As you probably guessed by a forum search, no one here owns that brand of oven.

I found a video that I'm sure you've seen (click on the link on the bottom):



I was looking through the PDF of specs and they seem a bit light.  No deck description other than 'refractory material,' and no deck thickness listed either. I also can't seem to tell if this has separate controllers for top and bottom heating elements. I think it does, but can't say for certain. The peak temp (400C/750F) seems respectable, although peak temp doesn't mean much if the wattage is sub par.  Again, it's a bit hard to tell from the specs, but the wattage seems to look okay on these.  It looks like the 106 x 66 model is 9.7 kW, while the 106 x 106 model is 14.7 kW. They don't specify if these numbers are for a single deck or a stack of ovens. If it's single deck, these numbers are passable. If it's for multiple decks, these numbers are horrible.

It's impossible to read the specs without making a lot of assumptions- and assumptions are not a good thing when purchasing a new oven.  I'm not saying this oven is bad (it might be a really great product), but I'd definitely get some clarification.

Electric Italian ovens are not very common here in the U.S. Every once in a while, a popular new place opens with an electric Italian oven, but the brand is usually one that no one's heard of.  That being said, these obscure ovens tend to perform extremely well and tend to hit temps that American ovens can't.

But... just because these obscure ovens perform well doesn't mean that your obscure oven will perform well.

I would investigate this oven further, but, at the same time, I might look into other companies as well.

What are your goals?  How many pizzas do you plan on baking a day?  What style of pizza are you striving for?  How long will you be baking your pizzas for?

Edit: I think one of the reasons why you don't see that many electric Italian ovens in America is that they can be a bit tricky to convert to American wiring.  I know nothing about Chilean wiring, but you might want to talk to an electrician to make sure that it isn't too complicated.  It looks like all their ovens have the same electrical requirement: 400 V, 3 phases, 50 Hz.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 02:44:01 PM by scott123 »

Offline fernandolira

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 05:43:04 PM »
hey scott!
thanks for your answer..

i was looking for this brand because they have representation here in Chile.. and they look more pro than the other ovens this enterprise brings.. (doyon, Salva, Unox..)

a person from mondial forni answered a mail earlier about the deck type.. look..
"I inform you that all our deck  are supplied as a standard with cement sole tiles, but this sole tile is a mix suitable for foodstaff and you can bake directly on the sole tiles without any problem

The domino Pizza is equipped with a special refractory sole tile which gives the pizza the typical baking like in a wood oven and can easily resist to 400C temperature which is max allowed temperature "

 what do you think???

my goal is to be able to make new york style all day haha..
something between 150, and 200 pies per day (in my favorite pizza shop, they told that that was the usual for a day)

but i would like it o be flexible, if i want to toast bread for bruschetta or if i want to make chicago style (i pretend to have at least 3 chicago style in the menu)
(is that too much? or one oven, one pizza type? ?  haha ? )

 i didn't undertand the last question..  how long do i pretend to bake the pizza? i think, as long as it takes haha !

thanks!!!

cheers

scott123

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 12:18:51 AM »
Fernando, are you baking pizzas presently at home? Did you used to work in a pizzeria? I'm asking how long you bake your pizzas (then or now) to understand what kind of oven you'll need.

The comments from the Mondial rep don't provide us with a lot of information.  Let's try going at this from another direction.  Are you able to purchase other Italian brands of pizza ovens? If so, these I can definitely vouch for:

Vero Forno, used by this pizzeria:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/11/williamsburg-pizza-a-cause-for-celebration.html

and Moretti Forni, utilized by this talented individual:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/09/openings-wheated-ditmas-park-brooklyn.html

These seem to be two solid electric Italian ovens. Do you have access to any distributor that carries these?

Offline fernandolira

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 08:41:04 PM »
hi used to work at two pizzerias.. as a waiter haha! but i fully understood the process.. that's why i want to open my own pizza place..
the thing is that those pizza shops had a system of making the crust in a way that they pre cooked them and when an order came, they threw the pie to the gas oven...
the taste of the crust wasn't that good..
the only pizza shop i trully like here in chile make the crusts in a different way.. they have a dough sheeter and when the order comes, they "sheet" the crust, put the cheese and goes to the electric oven..
: )

when i have the oven i'll make my pies.. but i got faith in me so i think i'll do just fine.

i do have contacts with Mondial Forni, and the distributor in chile.. they are exchanging some mails.. and then they'll hit me up with the answers..
this distributor has the brands i mention earlier.. they dont represent all the italian ovens.. i fact. i actually dont care if the oven comes from italy, usa, or korea.. the thing is that is good..

in mondial forni they told me they use "cement sole tiles" in their pizza ovens.. are this equivalent to a pizza stone? what do you think?

as soon as they answer, i'll post it here...

i'll check those brands.. thanks for the tip !! :D


cheers : )



scott123

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 09:12:55 PM »
Fernando, there's nothing wrong with having faith in yourself, but, here, on this forum, we're big believers in learning how to make great pizza long before you open shop.  If you're not making pizza at home, you absolutely should be.

About how soon are you planning on opening? Becoming a great pizza maker takes time- months. To make a really good consistent pie, I believe it takes 6 months, minimum. Unless you have months between when you get the oven and when you open, you want to be developing your skills now.

Honestly, I have no idea what 'cement sole tiles' are.  I can only assume something is getting lost in the translation.  It sounds a lot like a traditional pizza oven hearth, but I can't say for certain.

For NY style, the reigning king of American ovens, at the is present time, is the Marsal MB gas oven. But gas is very popular here.  Is electricity cheaper than gas there?

Tell us about your home oven. Gas? Electric? Peak temp? Shelf dimensions?  If gas, is the broiler in the main oven compartment or a compartment below?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 09:14:44 PM by scott123 »

Offline fernandolira

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2013, 09:15:37 AM »
in january i think i'l get the place.. then a couple of fixes, an expansion to the kitchen, some other things  and ready i'll be ready to go.

yo are right tough.. i should be making the pizza.. but im i the budget stage, i think after i finish figuring out how much $ i'll be needing for all, i will start making pizza at my GF parents house (that have a good oven, not like mine that can hardly bake lasagna). my mother in law, actually was going to order a pizza stone for her oven.. an electric one with all kind of features.... but i'm not sure wich ones.. i repeat i'm not in the cooking stage! haha.. my work and getting the numbers right is taking all the time i have for this...

anyways, i always had consider at least 4 months of trial in the kitchen before i make the menu, and decide what dough to use, etc.. so it's all moving according to the plan :D

i don't really know if here in chile electricity is cheaper than gas.. i think not.
the only reason i'm thinking about electric ovens, is because they seem more accurate in terms of heat (???)
plus the two pizza shops i worked, they precooked the dough, use gas ovens then, and the pie sucked.
and the 2 pizza shops i do like here, one uses an electric oven with a stone (this videos are from there! )
and the other uses the classic brick pizza oven.. but those are forbidden here in Santiago because of the bad quality of the air..
if i lived in a beach i could use something like that..
but sadly i can only go with the next best thing.. and that's what i'm trying to find out.

you say gas over electric?
a good gas oven can bake the fresh dough? i dont want to precook my dough.. they stink hahah!!

cheers~



Offline fernandolira

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2013, 04:43:14 PM »
hey scott just got a mail back from Mondial forni and some files..
im sharing the info next....
tell me what you think!


cheers  :)

"Hi Fernando,

sorry for the delay of reply but I am abroad and could answer you only now

Here enclosed you can find our brochure for this new oven and a picture and details of the PIZZA P6 DOMINO OVEN which is the one you are interested in

The cement sole tiles are the standard for the Domino ovens while for the Pizza domino ovens there are refractory sole tiles as they are much better for the crust and final artisan result on the pizza dough, and I can assure you that the pizza does not stick at all on them

The reason why Marsol did not send you any quote yet is because I repeat I was late in reply, now they have all the info in hands in order to give you a proper quote for an oven delivered in Chile

For your info joined please also find a drawing of an oven with 2 decks, combination can go from 1 deck only till 4-5 decks (but with 5 decks the top deck is quite high to load, you must be really tall.....!!), the nr of decks depends on the production you require

In any case at any time in the future you can always add 1 or more decks to the existing combination you choose today

All the technical specs are detailed in the attachment, in any case I keep at your disposal for any further information

kind regards
claudia roncolato "

files:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtijb08qb29iawg/DOMINO_HORECA_GB_00%20-%20mail.pdf (brochure)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/minkd16ckra781c/DominoP6-ing-2c.pdf (drawing)


scott123

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 01:17:00 AM »
Fernando, before your mother in law buys a stone (or you buy one for her), please ask our advice on what stone to buy.

We get a lot of new members who are aspiring pizzeria owners that have never made pizza in their lives, but look at pizza and say "how hard could that be?"  Making mediocre pizza is incredibly easy.  Making great pizza is incredibly hard. 

Every person is different, and, if you're incredibly motivated and baking every day, you can pick it up a bit faster, but, I think making pizza once a week is a comfortable training regime and, ideally, before the oven even arrives, you'll want to make pizza at least 30 times.  Following this logic (Once a week for 30 weeks), you should have started a few weeks ago  ;D I'm not trying to be mean or anything here- just trying to get you to understand that time is of the essence.

Are you able to use your mother in laws oven once (or twice) a week? Will it be accessible between now and January?

That's wonderful news that you don't want to precook (also call parbake) your dough.  Nothing is worse than parbaked pizza. If you were planning on parbaking your pizza, we'd be done talking  :-D

Roma looks pretty good, but, I'm telling you, if you spend some time here learning dough and perfect your pizza at your mother in laws (and track down some good flour and cheese), you'll produce something far better.

The sales rep from Mondial is sending you the same brochure that's on their website.  The same brochure that leaves out a lot of details.  Again, perhaps there's a language barrier issue, but emailing a prospective customer readily available documents doesn't instill confidence.

This whole 'sole' thing is stumping me. It's probably a word in Italian that has multiple english meanings and their translator is choosing the wrong one.  It could just be 'base.'

Regardless, if you are seriously considering purchasing these ovens, they need to cough up a lot more information.  We know the tiles are food safe and can be baked directly on. We need to know how well they transfer heat to the pizza.  Tile thickness and tile composition, and, if you can get it, the thermal conductivity for the material that makes up the tile. Also, it would to know if the tile is kiln fired or cast refractory.

Gas ovens, if they're engineered well and have plenty of power, are just as consistent as electric.  The end of the video below has an example of the Marsal oven that I spoke of in action.  They also go into detail about how the oven is made and the material the baking stones are made of.



Compare, if you will, the pizza baking in the oven at the end (seen below) to Roma's  >:D

Offline fernandolira

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Re: mondial forni anyone?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2013, 07:08:24 PM »
hey Scott..
im taking your word on the first thing.. wich stone should i buy? she has an electric oven.. im not sure wich brand, but it must be a good home oven still.. and i'm sure she'll let me use it whenever i want..

i know i'm kind of a delay, but the place is for january.. and i got to make some changes to it anyways.. i think it wont be open until march.. something like that..
so i still got some time :D

i went to Roma on saturday.. and after this post and eating there, i must say i'm kinda disappointed! .. the sauce was canned (i'm thinking of making it.. no way i'll use canned sauce.. )
the pizza wasn't so well cooked.. in fact, it was kind of pale and soft... that must be because of the electric oven.. right?
i also now think i can do better haha!

i will write the mondial forni person this week.. but now i'm not so sure that i want that kind of oven..
the marsal looks better, more heat and more equivalently distributed.. right?
isn't it too hot? i mean the pie on the video doesn't look so attractive.. it looks rather dry and burned.. but it might be cause of the skills of the chef haha!
but thats only in the eye.. i might be wrong : / !
is there an oven between marsal and mondial forni? or is it marsal, hands down.. ?
wich one would you buy?

it should be well built, very high temperatures, with pizza stone deck, no matter if is it gas or electric as long as there are no "cold" spots..
should i consider digital display to know how hot is it? or that is not so important?..


thanks for everything!

cheers!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 10:59:51 PM by fernandolira »