Author Topic: Papa Johns cheesesticks  (Read 9492 times)

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Offline pythonic

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Papa Johns cheesesticks
« on: June 04, 2013, 03:30:28 PM »
Wow these turned out better than expected.

This is for 12in sticks.

Oven rise for 5hrs, then patted down in pan and did another 1hr rise.
Topped with Papa's special garlic sauce (the real thing) and mozzarella.

Positioned rack on bottom of oven and baked for 5 min at 475 with convection and other minute with it off.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 03:37:07 PM by pythonic »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 04:14:53 PM »
Where's the maranara cup?  ;D
You need to sell those dude; no joke.  8)
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 04:29:52 PM »
Haha I used leftover garlic sauce instead.  These were excellent though, i enjoy these more than their pizza.  I know Papa's bakes on a screen but i used an American Metalcraft pan that i borrowed from work and it worked great. 
Papa's charges $7.99 for these things but now I can make them for $1.50.

Nate
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 05:25:46 PM »
Haha I used leftover garlic sauce instead.  These were excellent though, i enjoy these more than their pizza.  I know Papa's bakes on a screen but i used an American Metalcraft pan that i borrowed from work and it worked great. 
Papa's charges $7.99 for these things but now I can make them for $1.50.

Nate
They look great...thought I spied an awfully well seasoned pan. Don't forget where ya got it from!  :-D
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 05:51:25 PM »
Nate,

I agree with Bob. The cheesesticks look great.

Can you tell me how you decided on the amount of dough to make for the cheesesticks? When you said 12", did you mean that you used 12" as the pizza size in the dough calculating tool, and cut the finished pizza into 14 pieces? I believe that different PJ stores have different serving sizes but according to Reply 37 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6749.msg58428.html#msg58428 it appears that PJ may be using the dough for a 14" pizza and cut the final baked pizza into 10 pieces. According to the PJ Nutrition Facts at http://www.papajohns.com/menu/popup_bsticks.shtm, that protocol seems to fit for the basic PJ Breadsticks and the PJ Garlic Parmesan Breadsticks but for the PJ Cheesesticks it looks like the final baked pizza is cut into 14 pieces but using dough for a 12" pizza. This led me to call my local PJ store and ask about their Cheesesticks. I was told that they use the dough for a medium pizza (12") and cut the pizza into 16 pieces.

Peter

Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 06:48:12 PM »
Peter,

Thanks.  I used the extended dough calculator and used your thickness of .14 that you did for your papa johns pizzas.  However they ended up being 1/4 inch or less too thick.  I used a 12in pan and guessed on the cuts.  Next time I will go for 16.  Which thickness should I try next time you think?

Nate
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2013, 08:36:32 PM »
Nate,

From an article that Norma found at http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2010/05/31/story3.html?page=7, we learned that PJ was using a bit less dough for its 14" pizza than I earlier used. Also, from a discussion with a key headquarters employee at PJ, I learned that PJ is using a proprietary flour milled exclusively for PJ with a protein content that I am estimating from what I was told to be around 13.4-13.6%. The abovereferenced article also says that the flour for PJ's dough is from ConAgra at its Deaton (Decatur?) Alabama mill. Looking at the ConAgra flour bulletin at http://buyersguide.foodproductdesign.com/media/54/library/FPDconagramills3.pdf, it is possible that the Producer flour might be an acceptable flour to use for the cheesesticks. For a General Mills flour, something like the Supreme flour at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/supreme-flour-bleached-ascorbic-acid-enriched-malted-50-lb/58353000?mct=Flour&ct=spring-patent&typ=Type might also work especially since it is unbromated and contains ascorbic acid as a substitute for the potassium bromate. As another alternative, you can combine unbromated high gluten flour with unbromated bread flour or all-purpose flour to achieve a blend with a protein content of around 13.4-13.6%. I would use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to calculate the amounts of the flours to use in the blend.

With the above as background, and after revisiting the PJ Nutrition Facts, I would use the dough formulation set forth below. Although I am able to calculate the thickness factor for a PJ 14" dough ball, it is unlikely that PJ is using the same thickness factor for the 12" dough ball since that would result in a dough ball with an oddball weight. So, for our purposes, I would use a dough ball weight of 14.5 ounces. That would represent a thickness factor of 0.12821 yet be close to the thickness factor used by PJ for its 14" pizzas.

This is the recommended dough formulation for your purposes:

Flour or Flour Blend* (100%):
Water (56%):
ADY (0.16%):
Salt (1.9%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (5.55%):
Sugar (5.89%):
Total (169.5%):
242.52 g  |  8.55 oz | 0.53 lbs
135.81 g  |  4.79 oz | 0.3 lbs
0.39 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.1 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
4.61 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.83 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
13.46 g | 0.47 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.96 tsp | 0.99 tbsp
14.28 g | 0.5 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.58 tsp | 1.19 tbsp
411.07 g | 14.5 oz | 0.91 lbs | TF = N/A
*The Flour or Flour Blend should have a protein content of 13.4-13.6%
Note: The dough ball weight is the same as used for a 12" pizza; the corresponding thickness factor = 0.12821; no bowl residue compensation

The above formulation is intended to be for a dough that can be cold fermented for 3-7 days, and in which the ADY is used dry rather than being prehydrated in warm water. If you use IDY, you can use 0.14%. Or, if you were satisfied with the 0.10% IDY that you used with a warmer fermentation protocol and a much shorter fermentation window, you can stick with that overall protocol.

Unfortunately, there is no easy or quick way to determine how much Special Garlic sauce and mozzarella cheese are used to make the PJ Cheesesticks. There are too many overlapping ingredients, such as fats, which are present in the dough, the Special Garlic sauce and the mozzarella cheese, to be able to isolate and measure them. Also, the mozzarella cheese used by PJ is not a pure mozzarella cheese. It includes shredded or diced low moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese but also whey protein and other ingredients, along with other items to prevent clumping. In your case, you should use your best judgment on the amount of Special Garlic sauce and mozzarella cheese to use. However, it might be helpful if you weigh the pizza after it has been baked but not yet sliced. That might help us determine how much cheese is used.

Peter

Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2013, 09:12:44 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for that awesome write up.  I used bouncer flour to make these and was very happy how it performed. I will use that lower TF you gave.  For the garlic sauce and mozzarella amounts I used I saw in this YouTube vid.

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2013, 09:25:38 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for that awesome write up.  I used bouncer flour to make these and was very happy how it performed. I will use that lower TF you gave.  For the garlic sauce and mozzarella amounts I used I saw in this YouTube vid.


Wonder how old that video is?
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2013, 09:46:08 PM »
Nate,

The Bouncer flour, which is milled by Bay State Milling, has a protein content of 13.8 +/-0.3% protein. That should work but may be a bit on the high side for a PJ clone. Also, in the past, PJ has not used bromated flours. Instead, as mentioned previously, it uses ascorbic acid.

According to the YouTube website, the video you referenced was uploaded on Nov. 6, 2010.

Peter


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2013, 10:13:20 PM »
Nate,

The Bouncer flour, which is milled by Bay State Milling, has a protein content of 13.8 +/-0.3% protein. That should work but may be a bit on the high side for a PJ clone. Also, in the past, PJ has not used bromated flours. Instead, as mentioned previously, it uses ascorbic acid.

According to the YouTube website, the video you referenced was uploaded on Nov. 6, 2010.

Peter
FWIW..that vid showed $5.99 for order of cheese and bacon sticks. Flash forward...cheese only are now $7.99 Nick?

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Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2013, 10:23:02 PM »
FWIW..that vid showed $5.99 for order of cheese and bacon sticks. Flash forward...cheese only are now $7.99 Nick?

Yep guess you're right.  For some reason I thought they were $7.99.

Nate
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2013, 10:32:16 PM »
Yep guess you're right.  For some reason I thought they were $7.99.

Nate
I'd like to get a couple orders of yours please  :drool:...have you worked up a price yet?  :D
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2013, 10:34:11 PM »
I'd like to get a couple orders of yours please  :drool:...have you worked up a price yet?  :D

We should definitely put these on our menu at Fat Tonys.  $5.99 works just fine.  Haha.

Nate
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2013, 10:37:31 PM »
We should definitely put these on our menu at Fat Tonys.  $5.99 works just fine.  Haha.

Nate
10-fo...I'll check with Tony an see if he agrees with that price point.  ;)
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2013, 10:48:30 PM »
10.5 oz for small, 14.5 for medium.  posted the specs on weights a while back
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2013, 11:19:34 PM »
10.5 oz for small, 14.5 for medium.  posted the specs on weights a while back

How much garlic sauce on a medium?  3/4 of their dipping sauce I am guessing.

Nate
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2013, 11:42:43 PM »
How much garlic sauce on a medium?  3/4 of their dipping sauce I am guessing.

Nate

the small, i would estimate a quart squirt bottle would last about 22 cheese sticks

~1.5oz, and the cups are 2oz i believe. so yes. but i always went heavy
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2013, 11:51:49 PM »
the small, i would estimate a quart squirt bottle would last about 22 cheese sticks

~1.5oz, and the cups are 2oz i believe. so yes. but i always went heavy

Thanks.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Johns cheesesticks
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2013, 08:41:17 AM »
I recalled seeing a set of PJ portioning cups for sale on eBay and wondered if at least a photo of the cups was still available. Here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portion-Control-Kit-22-Measuring-Cups-/360159221821?GUID=1d4b71961280a0e202972127ff0900eb&crlp=1_263602_263622&rvr_id=&UA=WXI8&ff4=263602_263622&itemid=360159221821&nma=true&si=5acPLhLhJ6e0o97OzJ60DMgcwvI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_4513wt_1083. It looks like the translucent white cup is the one that PJ uses in the video for the cheese.

Interestingly, yesterday afternoon when I looked at the weight numbers for the PJ Cheesesticks at the PJ website, and assuming that the dough ball weight was 14.5 ounces (thanks for the reminder, Jon), and also assuming a typical weight loss as I noted when I made my PJ clone pizzas, I concluded that there couldn't be much Garlic sauce or cheese. Playing around with the numbers, I arrived at about 1 1/2 ounces of the Garlic sauce and about 2 ounces for the cheese, both by weight. That was for an assumption of about a 7.5% weight loss. FWIW, one of the little tubs (PJ calls them cups) of Garlic sauce contains about an ounce (28 grams) of sauce (http://www.papajohns.com/menu/popup_extra_01.shtm).

Peter