Author Topic: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?  (Read 11931 times)

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Offline deb415611

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2013, 07:21:21 AM »
Have you ever played around with Prairie Gold WW flour?  It has a beautiful flavor and color.  My family is not into whole wheat breads, generally, but when I balance it out, they like it.  It actually has a high protein content for ww.

d -

do you know how  the Prairie Gold ww compares to the KA ww's 

Deb


Offline dhorst

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2013, 08:03:00 AM »
d -

do you know how  the Prairie Gold ww compares to the KA ww's 

Deb

Deb,
I'll have to do a side by side comparison--it's been some time since I played with KA's ww, but I think this has a nuttier flavor, more golden look and a higher protein content.  I'm on a flour quest today, so I may pick up some KA ww.  I see a bread baking bender happening in the near future. 
It will have to be late at night or very early in the morning though.  Hmm. At one point the early morning sessions worked well because my husband was still sleeping and I worked out while the ovens were heating.

Diana

Offline deb415611

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2013, 08:18:18 AM »
Deb,
I'll have to do a side by side comparison--it's been some time since I played with KA's ww, but I think this has a nuttier flavor, more golden look and a higher protein content.  I'm on a flour quest today, so I may pick up some KA ww.  I see a bread baking bender happening in the near future. 
It will have to be late at night or very early in the morning though.  Hmm. At one point the early morning sessions worked well because my husband was still sleeping and I worked out while the ovens were heating.

Diana

thanks I'll have to look for that.  I'm just about out of ww .  on quick google I see walmart carries, I"ll have to see if any around here have it .  worst case, I think one of the cash & carry wholesalers that I can buy from has Prairie gold brand
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 08:20:28 AM by deb415611 »

Offline dhorst

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2013, 08:42:28 AM »
thanks I'll have to look for that.  I'm just about out of ww .  on quick google I see walmart carries, I"ll have to see if any around here have it .  worst case, I think one of the cash & carry wholesalers that I can buy from has Prairie gold brand


We have some Amish markets in the area that carry it.  I get my occident flour at those markets along with some nice seasonings and cheeses too.

Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2013, 05:58:10 PM »
This is the information about the W in the General Mills Neapolitan Pizza Flour Joe Kelley sent me back in an email.  He also included a pdf. on information about the Alveograph.  If anyone wants to to print out that information about the information I can do that with photos.

Hello Norma,
 
I reached out to our grain tech lab for some insight on what we can provide, below and attached is their response.
 
Here is the info specific to the Neapolitan Flour milled on 4/21/2013. 
 
Alveograph numbers:
W= 55.299999
P/L= 0.87
 
Farinograph numbers:
Protein 12.3%
Ash 0.519%
Falling Number 474 (no malt)
Arrival time 1.4'
Peak 10.5'
Stability 18.5'
MTI 13.0
 
I'm also including a little information on Alveograph.
 
Thank you,
Joe Kelley
612-267-4970

I then told Joe that I would post the information here on the forum and this is what Joe said in the next email.
No problem, to be honest the W number goes right over my head, I’m just happy that we have skilled technical employees. 
 
I really appreciate you passing along the information, please feel free to pass along my contact information as well if any of the forum members are interested in trying the product.
 
Take care and please do not hesitate to reach out if you need anything else.
 
Thank you,
Joe Kelley
612-267-4970

Norma
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Online scott123

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2013, 06:24:22 PM »
Alveograph numbers:
W= 55.299999

Minneapolis, we have a problem  ;D

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2013, 12:16:30 AM »
Minneapolis, we have a problem  ;D

Zoikkks!

Someone (mmmph :)) is gonna have to let us know how it performs before I buy it based on its "nice" price!

John K
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Online scott123

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2013, 12:50:46 AM »
After doing a little research, I can only assume it's either a typo or some kind of testing error, as a W of 55, according to this source

http://publications.hgca.com/publications/documents/exports/BCE_Chopin_Alveograph_Guide.pdf

is basically only suitable for animal feed.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 01:46:30 AM by scott123 »

Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2013, 08:26:21 AM »
I had emailed Joe Kelley this morning and asked him if the W number might have been a typo error.  Joe called me then and told me that really the W number is proprietary internal information for the General Mills Neapolitan Pizza Flour and can't be given out to anyone.  Joe said he doesn't even know the W number for that flour.  Joe told me that he encourages members to just try the new General Mills Neapolitan Pizza Flour and then decide for themselves if they like it.  Joe also told me there is no way the new flour was only suitable for animal feed. 

Norma
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 08:29:37 AM by norma427 »
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Online scott123

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2013, 09:05:13 AM »
Joe called me then and told me that really the W number is proprietary internal information for the General Mills Neapolitan Pizza Flour and can't be given out to anyone.

Boo! Hisssssss!

It's one thing to say "General Mills doesn't provide W numbers," but to give us a number and then tell us that they don't give out numbers?  Bad form.

And why should their W number be proprietary?  Anyone with an alveograph can run the flour through it and get a figure. It's not like the secret ingredients in Coca Cola. If they are trying to bring a flour to the market that's in direct competition to the Italian millers- millers that are completely open (and quite proud) about their W figures, then, if they expect to be competitive, they should not just try to match the Italian flour, but they should match the forthcoming nature and customer service of the Italians as well.

Shame on you, General Mills!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:15:52 AM by scott123 »


Offline waltertore

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2013, 09:12:43 AM »
I will have to order a bag and give it a try.  thanks Norma and I look forward to hearing what you think of the product.   Walter

Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2013, 09:40:56 AM »
Boo! Hisssssss!

It's one thing to say "General Mills doesn't provide W numbers," but to give us a number and then tell us that they don't give out numbers?  Bad form.

And why should their W number be proprietary?  Anyone with an alveograph can run the flour through it and get a figure. It's not like the secret ingredients in Coca Cola. If they are trying to bring a flour to the market that's in direct competition to the Italian millers- millers that are completely open (and quite proud) about their W figures, then, if they expect to be competitive, they should not just try to match the Italian flour, but they should match the forthcoming nature and customer service of the Italians as well.

Shame on you, General Mills!


Scott,

Joe actually got a slap on the hand.  I told Joe I was sorry that it happened.  Joe said that was okay because he told me I could post on this open forum.  Joe really don't understand what the W number is. 

If you look what Peter posted at Reply 15 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4986.msg42545.html#msg42545 as he has noted previously elsewhere, the “deformation energy” factor “W” in not a common one in the U.S. Millers use it but retailers who sell flour, such as King Arthur, for example, do not disclose W values in their literature made available to retail buyers.

I think each member should just try the new flour out and then see if they like it if they want to try it.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2013, 09:44:28 AM »
I will have to order a bag and give it a try.  thanks Norma and I look forward to hearing what you think of the product.   Walter


Walter,

I was trying to get my starter active to try the new flour, but for some reason it would bubble, but not fast enough.  I am going to meet Steve (Ev) at market today and he is going to give me some of his starter and I am going to give him some of the new flour to try.  If all goes well until Sunday we both might be trying the new flour out in Steve's WFO.

Norma
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Online scott123

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2013, 10:06:52 AM »
Joe actually got a slap on the hand.  I told Joe I was sorry that it happened.  Joe said that was okay because he told me I could post on this open forum.  Joe really don't understand what the W number is. 

If you look what Peter posted at Reply 15 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4986.msg42545.html#msg42545 as he has noted previously elsewhere, the “deformation energy” factor “W” in not a common one in the U.S. Millers use it but retailers who sell flour, such as King Arthur, for example, do not disclose W values in their literature made available to retail buyers.


Norma, I can empathize with Joe's situation, I can see how his intentions were good, and I certainly wouldn't want him to get in trouble, but it still doesn't excuse GMs policy on publishing W numbers.

None of the millers you mentioned who refuse to publish their W numbers are trying to compete with Caputo pizzeria flour.  This style of flour lives or dies on it's W number. For this style, it's like a car manufacturer not publishing engine size.

It's like Forno Bravo taking their lower than Italian quality oven and putting Italian looking tiles on it so that it looks Italian.  The W number is the core value of this flour.  If they're not willing to divulge that, everything else is window dressing.

Could the flour make good pizza? Probably.  But secrecy will never compete with honesty.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2013, 10:19:39 AM »
Norma,

As you know from our many emails and telephone calls to industry participants over the years, many of them have a "When/if in doubt, don't give it out" attitude when it comes to what might be deemed to be proprietary information. That is a natural and understandable attitude to take, especially when the company's representative is ill informed about the matter in question. I just accept it and move on. As you know, in many cases the answers eventually show up in print somewhere or in a video or elsewhere on the Internet.

I agree with scott123 on the W issue since there is nothing particularly secretive about what that number means and now it is used. Knowing that number can be a big help to end users contemplating use of the new GM flour. Maybe over time GM will see the merit of revealing the applicable W number since it is part and parcel of the 00 flours that the new GM flour will be competing with. In my experience, it is the biggest companies that are prone to being overly secretive. I think the reason is that employees of such companies don't want to get into trouble. So they button up their lips.

Peter

Online scott123

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2013, 10:22:07 AM »
I just thought of something. Doesn't Tom Lehmann have access to an alveograph?   >:D

Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2013, 10:27:56 AM »
Peter and Scott,

I understand that knowing the W number would be a big help to anyone that might want to try the new GM flour.

Norma
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Online scott123

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2013, 11:09:03 AM »
Peter and Scott,

I understand that knowing the W number would be a big help to anyone that might want to try the new GM flour.

Norma

Norma, regardless of my consternation with GMs customer service, I think you've done a fantastic job of bringing this flour to the forum's attention and I hope that your experiments with it are a success.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 11:29:51 AM by scott123 »

Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2013, 04:01:25 PM »
Norma, regardless of my consternation with GMs customer service, I think you've done a fantastic job of bringing this flour to the forum's attention and I hope that your experiments with it are a success.

Thanks Scott!  I would not have know about this flour if I wasn't trying to make a tomato pie.  I think it is funny how one thing leads to another sometimes.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: General Mills Neapolitan Hearth Style Pizza Flour?
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2013, 04:13:39 PM »
This is what the General Mills Neapolitan flour looks like.  It is milled very fine.  I gave half of the bag to Steve because he makes more Neapolitan pies than I do.

Steve also gave me some of his Ischia starter so I can make some dough balls.

Norma
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