Author Topic: Dough spreading too thin  (Read 1706 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jeffbg123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Chicago
  • I Love Pizza!
Dough spreading too thin
« on: June 07, 2013, 02:47:59 PM »
Hey,

I've been trying to make NY style pizza and have been having the following problem. My dough seems to be spreading extremely thin as soon as I start to press it out. While I am trying to shape it and build a crust the middle gets incredibly thin and uneven. It doesn't tear, it just won't remain the right thickness.

Here's my recipe (pretty similar to glutenboy's recipe) and technique:

Add the following to a bread maker
KASL flour (100%) 12.88 oz
Water (60%) 7.73 oz
Salt (2.5%) .322 oz
ADY (.28%) .036 oz

I turn the bread maker on dough mode and just have it knead the dough for me for about 15 minutes. I add in some hand kneading to make sure it is smooth.

Then I separate the dough into 3 x 7 oz balls and place them in lightly oiled (spray pam) rounded tuperware. I leave the containers on the counter for an hour or two then put them in the fridge.

24-48 hours after putting them in the fridge I take them out and let them get to room temperature for 2-3 hours (still covered on the counter).

I then take one dough ball out and put it on a lightly floured counter. I press the ball out and almost immediately the middle becomes super thin and somewhat transparent (no tears).

I put it on parchment paper, top it with sauce and cheese, and cook it on a stone at 550 degrees in the oven. I take the parchment paper out after a minute or two of cooking.

The pizza isn't half bad, it's just way too thin. I've tried just pressing it less but it doesn't work. When I go to form the outer crust I can't keep the inner dough at a reasonable thickness. I tried taking pictures but I cant really get a good one that you can see the thinness.

Am I missing anything?

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-Jeff


Offline TomN

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1478
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 03:27:47 PM »
Jeff,

After you make the large dough ball and then divide it into three smaller dough balls, what is the weight of each smaller dough ball?

I use four cups of Pendleton POWER flour and each of the three dough balls weighs in at an average of 12.5 to 13 grams. (Depending on the beer I use) They press out very well to make a 14" pizza. (Using flour in the process, of course)

TomN

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.msg245184.html#msg245184
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 06:28:57 PM by TomN »

Offline dmcavanagh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1912
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 03:46:07 PM »
You're not making a NY stylr pizza with a 7 oz, dough ball, that's not enough dough! I true NY pizza is a rather large (16"-18") thin crust pizza. That size pie needs about 16-18 ounces of dough.

Offline jeffbg123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Chicago
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 04:25:27 PM »
For my last round I doubled the recipe and made 3x14 oz balls. Had the same exact issue though. They just became bigger pizzas that were too thin. I tried not to press them as much, but they thinned out so quickly. I want a dough that I am going to have to work at to get it thin and even. Once it gets to thin there is no going back.

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 04:29:28 PM »
15 minute knead with KASL flour?  Not sure how a bread machine works, but that sounds like a long knead.

Offline jeffbg123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Chicago
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2013, 04:30:23 PM »
I guess I wasn't really aware that you could over-knead  that easily? Could this cause the thinness problem?

Offline TomN

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1478
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2013, 06:29:57 PM »
Jeff,

After you make the large dough ball and then divide it into three smaller dough balls, what is the weight of each smaller dough ball?

I use four cups of Pendleton POWER flour and each of the three dough balls weighs in at an average of 12.5 to 13 grams. (Depending on the beer I use) They press out very well to make a 14" pizza. (Using flour in the process, of course)

TomN

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.msg245184.html#msg245184


Jeff,

My weight of the dough ball is before it's bagged and given the cold rise.


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10295
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2013, 07:15:42 PM »
I guess I wasn't really aware that you could over-knead  that easily? Could this cause the thinness problem?
Why don't you use a high protein type of flour that is a proven winner for the style of pizza you want. Your dough is slack because it is AP flour that has been mixed and fermented too long. You could probably open/stretch the current dough you have if you left out the 2-3hr. counter "warm up" and opened it cold/cool.

Bob
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 07:18:37 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2050
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2013, 09:17:42 PM »
Container too wide for small doughball?    That would be my guess.  Either make a bigger doughball or get a narrower container.  Or it could be a 7oz doughball only needs 1hr to warmup.

Nate
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:22:09 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10295
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2013, 09:21:13 PM »
Container too wide for small doughball?    That would be my guess.  Either make a bigger doughball or get a narrower container.

Nate
What if he was fermenting it in a plastic bag like many do? Not sure I understand your theory.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2050
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2013, 09:38:32 PM »
What if he was fermenting it in a plastic bag like many do? Not sure I understand your theory.


I'll go with combo being too flat already and too much warm up making it extremely flexible.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10295
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2013, 09:52:41 PM »

I'll go with combo being too flat already and too much warm up making it extremely flexible.

Nate
OK, sounds good...and I'll have a #3 combo with super slaw and a side of extra gluten please. .   ;D
...ya'll got those cheese stix tonight man?  >:D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2050
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 10:19:27 PM »
OK, sounds good...and I'll have a #3 combo with super slaw and a side of extra gluten please. .   ;D
...ya'll got those cheese stix tonight man?  >:D

Not tonight.  My arteries are already going through withdrawals.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline mkevenson

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2203
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Roos! Protector of Fowl
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 09:40:46 AM »
Jeff, I might suggest, as an experiment, that you make a dough ball by hand mixing and hand kneading. Try putting the ball in the fridge without the rest period after kneading. When opening the ball, leave the middle alone, at least until you pick the opened dough up for slight stretching. I would also suggest that your dough ball weight could be increased, in fact why not double the weight and if the pie is too large, reduce next time to around 10 oz. Are you measuring the temp of the dough ball after forming?
Have fun, experiment, it will happen. :chef:


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 06:22:27 PM »
Why don't you use a high protein type of flour that is a proven winner for the style of pizza you want. Your dough is slack because it is AP flour that has been mixed and fermented too long.
He's using KASL.  ;)

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10295
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2013, 06:43:16 PM »
He's using KASL.  ;)
Oh...guess I missed the SL part.  :-[
Ok; stop with the bread machine, mix just till it comes together with a cottage cheese look to it, ferment and then stretch out a normal size pizza till you get the feel for it. That will be a lot easier than some dinky little 7in morphadite.   :o
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline c0mpl3x

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1094
  • Age: 27
  • Location: north of pittsburgh PA
  • crumb bubbles!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2013, 07:46:53 PM »
you don't work the center.  if the center is too thin your stretching process is the issue not just the dough
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10295
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2013, 07:54:39 PM »
check this...go to 3:25  ;)
How To Hand Slap Pizza Crust
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 07:56:22 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline jeffbg123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Chicago
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2013, 07:26:14 PM »
Thanks for all of the advice guys.

I am cold fermenting in 3 different size containers, one too small, one just right, and one too big. They all come out the same.

I could be letting it get too warm before spreading. But I find that when I do it colder the outer crust is a bit too dense.

I will use your advice and keep trying.

Thanks again
-Jeff

Offline TomN

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1478
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Dough spreading too thin
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2013, 01:18:20 PM »
Jeff,

After you make the large dough ball and then divide it into three smaller dough balls, what is the weight of each smaller dough ball?

I use four cups of Pendleton POWER flour and each of the three dough balls weighs in at an average of 12.5 to 13 grams. (Depending on the beer I use) They press out very well to make a 14" pizza. (Using flour in the process, of course)

TomN

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.msg245184.html#msg245184


Meant to say ounces, not grams