Author Topic: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!  (Read 4074 times)

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Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2013, 12:20:19 AM »
Keep cooking and keep adding pics. Looks like fun. I'm jealous.


Online mitchjg

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2013, 10:02:23 AM »
Hi Paul:

This is just my personal experience and not that of all the experts on the forum.  But, I have a FGM!

1 The FGM will heat up more slowly than some ovens owned by other people on the forum.  The walls are insulated very well and that could make it take longer.  On the other hand, I think it retains heat into the next day and beyond very well.
2 The dome thermometer (that inserts into the oven) measures the temperature at the core.  Very different reading than the temperature on the floor or ceiling with an IR gun.  The surfaces will get hot faster and easier but will also cool down faster than what you see in the core.  That is why you saw the big drop off.  The core was not really hot yet - you thought the oven was ready but it wasn't.
3, That does not mean you "have to" wait until the core is up to temperature before cooking.  But, it means you have to manage it more carefully.  Catch the temperature on the way down before it goes too far down.  Spread coals back on the floor before cooking a second pizza in order to "recharge" the floor.  I do not do this normally but have done so from time to time.
4. I heat up the oven steadily with a significant fire and the coals spread around until it is about 50 degree F short of my target.  I then sweep the coals to the side for the side fire and sweep out the excess coals.  At this point, the core is a little low but the floors are very high.  If I wait about 20 or 30 minutes with a small fire on the side, the oven is ready to go.  The core has moved up a bit more and the floors have cooled down some.  So, it is all pretty evened out.
5.  I figure about 250 degrees F per hour of heating.  So, for a neapolitan with Caputo flour, 800 degree +++ pie, I will heat for about 3 1/2 + hours and then stabilize for 1/2 hour.  I can probably start faster, but this has become my habit.  If I "only" want to cook at 700 degrees, with a malted flour like KABF, then I will heat it up for around 2 - 2 1/2 hours and then stabilize.

If you heat up and stabilized as i described, you can pretty much make pie after pie after pie at around the same temperature by maintaining a nice fire on the side (that licks across the entire dome).

Others experiences may not be the same, but this is how I have learned to manage the heat up with my FGM.  I am still learning every time I use it.

Great start and good luck.  You will get better and better.

- Mitch

Offline Paul_N

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2013, 08:41:59 PM »

I tried again today.  I got the oven up to 625 after about 3 hours.  I was pretty pleased by that.  The more I use it, the better it performs I believe.  I have some kiln dried fire wood arriving tomorrow morning (happy father's day!). 

While I was happy about the performance of the oven at this early stage, I was not happy with my performance.  I lost an entire pie as I couldn't get the #$@#$ing thing off the peel.  I turned another one into a donut.  I charred another one due to too much semolina on the peel and too hot of a hearth.  I think my dough recipe (Reinhart's neo-neopolitan) has something to do with it.  Lots of oil in the recipe in addition to some sugar.  I think I need to bust out the caputo OO I bought and find a new recipe. 

I also have to figure out how to use the #@$@ing peel.  When the dough is insanely moist & sticky, how do you prevent it from sticking?  I dust the peel with semolina, make the pie (on the peel) and within 30 seconds, it is stuck again.  Stretch. Fold. Dust.  Get it to break free, only to have it stick again by the time I make it to the WFO.   Too much semolina and it burns and the pizza tastes blah.  Not enough and the pizza ends up being flung all over the place.

I've seen too many videos/pics - you guys make it look too easy.   

I'm super happy that I resisted my urge to invite folks over for pizza today.  The only thing they would have had was crazy bubbly, undercooked pizza with a charred bottom.

 -Paul

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2013, 09:24:43 PM »

I also have to figure out how to use the #@$@ing peel.  When the dough is insanely moist & sticky, how do you prevent it from sticking?  I dust the peel with semolina, make the pie (on the peel) and within 30 seconds, it is stuck again.  Stretch. Fold. Dust.  Get it to break free, only to have it stick again by the time I make it to the WFO.   
Just keep shaking the pizza on the way to the oven. Make sure it shakes easily before trying to launch it.

Offline norma427

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2013, 10:10:42 PM »
Paul,

You are doing a great job and I really like your new WFO.   8)

I think you are right that if you are using Peter Reinhart's Neo-Neopolitan recipe that one is harder to get off of a peel.  You can see where I used that recipe and Peter Reinhart's Classic Pizza Dough in Steve's WFO at Reply 9 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg127491.html#msg127491  I also used the same dough at market and although I really liked Peter Reinhart's recipes the dressed pizzas were harder to get off of the peel. 

Norma
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2013, 10:53:01 AM »
Paul, your baby is growing up a bit, and dad is learning. I don't know what peel you are using, but , I was having probs getting my pie off the peel UNTIL a member here recommended this.


http://compare.ebay.com/like/221237695811?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar


I have never failed to launch since then. I think it is magic, but I'll take it. I open and dress my pie on a tile counter, bench flour to keep everything moving. One of the beauties of the perforated peel is that all the bench flour falls off the bottom of the pie when you jiggle it a bit.


Good luck on whatever method and tools you choose. This will be a happy story, if not sometimes frustrating.


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2013, 09:44:17 PM »
Paul,

1. Make your fire bigger. Much bigger!

2. Your coal bed --- same thing. Twice the size!!!

3. Have those flames ROLLING ACROSS THE DOME as you are baking. Achieve this with small pieces of kindling that Burst into flames when thrown onto your coal bed.

4. Buy one of the metallic pizza peels. With the holes. Night and day difference. No need to think about it. Just a necessity really.

Have fun. The bigger fire DEFINITELY makes the fun level 50-100% greater.

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline Paul_N

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2013, 11:46:09 PM »

1. Make your fire bigger. Much bigger!

2. Your coal bed --- same thing. Twice the size!!!


I'm still struggling with this one.  I start off with a decent size fire, to the point where I see flames rolling up the vent.  I then break down the fire just a bit as I don't want all the heat rolling up the chimney. 

I'm also curious to know what the average temperature drop is.  I've read various articles/postings about people making some pizzas and then an hour or two later making some bread.  I'm loosing about 50 degrees (F) over a few hours.   In fact, the tuscan bean soup I was hoping to make tonight will be postponed until tomorrow morning due to a too-hot oven (for the soup).


4. Buy one of the metallic pizza peels. With the holes. Night and day difference. No need to think about it. Just a necessity really.


I just don't get this.  My mind keeps telling me that it would actually make things worse.  I think some of my problems (beyond high expectations) had to due with the dough recipe I was using. It contained sugar, oil & malted flour.  It was *great* on Friday when I was cooking at low temps.  Yesterday though, I was constantly fighting a charred bottom (if it came off the peel, that is).  While I haven't figured out the hydration on that recipe, I think it has to be pretty high. It was incredibly sticky and I had problems stretching it. As soon as it folded in on itself it was over.

Back to the peel, I just think that with dough that sticky, it would naturally fall into the holes on the peel and make my problem even worse.

 -Paul


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 12:04:31 AM »
No sugar, no oil and a slotted peel equals WFO pizza as it was meant to be.

Offline RobynB

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2013, 12:33:10 PM »
I've gotta agree with Tom.  You are fighting against what you're trying to achieve.  If you want to make Neapolitan pizza at high temp, then you need to make the appropriate dough, which would be 00 flour, yeast/starter, salt and water, nothing else.  If you are using the appropriate dough, then the correct tools make sense and work well.  I know the raised dome oven that you chose makes it harder to cook Neapolitan pizzas, but until you fix the dough you aren't going to get any closer regardless of flame. 


Offline Serpentelli

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2013, 12:51:25 PM »
I'm still struggling with this one.  I start off with a decent size fire, to the point where I see flames rolling up the vent.  I then break down the fire just a bit as I don't want all the heat rolling up the chimney. 

I'm also curious to know what the average temperature drop is.  I've read various articles/postings about people making some pizzas and then an hour or two later making some bread.  I'm loosing about 50 degrees (F) over a few hours.   In fact, the tuscan bean soup I was hoping to make tonight will be postponed until tomorrow morning due to a too-hot oven (for the soup).

I just don't get this.  My mind keeps telling me that it would actually make things worse.  I think some of my problems (beyond high expectations) had to due with the dough recipe I was using. It contained sugar, oil & malted flour.  It was *great* on Friday when I was cooking at low temps.  Yesterday though, I was constantly fighting a charred bottom (if it came off the peel, that is).  While I haven't figured out the hydration on that recipe, I think it has to be pretty high. It was incredibly sticky and I had problems stretching it. As soon as it folded in on itself it was over.

Back to the peel, I just think that with dough that sticky, it would naturally fall into the holes on the peel and make my problem even worse.

 -Paul

Paul,

I'm not trying to tell you to reinvent the wheel here. Robin and Tom are trying to tell you the same thing you can read ALL OVER the NP forum re: ingredients of NP dough. I'm not sure how you can be using a dough whose hydration you do not know. Even someone like me who will fudge the HECK out of any recipe given to me knows the hydration of his dough. You gotta know where you are in order to know where you want to go, right?!

And don't get me wrong, I LOVE the versatility of my oven. Steak, chicken, vegetables, even double duty as a smoker, and oh yeah the Tuscan Grill. And yes bread. But not bread two hours after making NP pizza. The bread is for the next DAY!!

Same would go for the Tuscan bean soup. Next day. Definitely.

After the last three bakes, my  wife and I actually planned out a three day meal plan with the foundation being "pizza night":

1. Day 1 Pizza night
2. Day 2 Put a few small logs on the residual embers and did steaks on the Tuscan grill
3. Day 3 Roast chickens without flames, using the residual embers from Day 2. Could have done a soup with those chickens.

Just my bit of advice. Take it if you want; not offended if you don't! :)

John K
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Offline Paul_N

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 08:24:50 PM »
Paul,

I'm not trying to tell you to reinvent the wheel here. Robin and Tom are trying to tell you the same thing you can read ALL OVER the NP forum re: ingredients of NP dough. I'm not sure how you can be using a dough whose hydration you do not know. Even someone like me who will fudge the HECK out of any recipe given to me knows the hydration of his dough. You gotta know where you are in order to know where you want to go, right?!

Thanks, John.  I'm going to dig up a new recipe. At the beginning of the thread, I pondered whether or not to do this - and agreed with folks to go with dough I've successfully used in the past. Despite having "neopolitan" in the name, it isn't suitable for a WFO.    Its a great learning less though, and if the NP recipes are everything that people say they are, they should be a lot easier to slide off the peel.


And don't get me wrong, I LOVE the versatility of my oven. Steak, chicken, vegetables, even double duty as a smoker, and oh yeah the Tuscan Grill. And yes bread. But not bread two hours after making NP pizza. The bread is for the next DAY!!

I loved the schedule that you provided, and it triggered a thought - what if I reverse the order a bit?  Bread in the morning @ 500 - 550F then some pizzas later on in the day. Its easier to go up in temp, not down.

I fired the oven up for bread two days ago and got it up to 625 the night before (highest yet).  I worried that it wouldn't cool down enough by the next morning and left the insulating door off, and the cast iron open a bit.  I was shocked to see it down to 350 the next morning.  I was hoping for 450.  A log or two later I got it back up into bread making range and was successful.  So many variables involved.  I'd love to get a couple of wireless temp probes that would track the ambient temperature and the dome temp.   

Actually - thats not a bad idea.  I'll see if I can replace the dome thermometer with something that is bluetooth enabled.  I could pair it with my phone and be able to remotely check the temp on my phone.  Heck - I might even be able to program something that pings me when the oven hits a certain temp.

 -Paul

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2013, 09:56:27 PM »
Actually - thats not a bad idea.  I'll see if I can replace the dome thermometer with something that is bluetooth enabled.  I could pair it with my phone and be able to remotely check the temp on my phone.  Heck - I might even be able to program something that pings me when the oven hits a certain temp.

 -Paul

That would be fantastic  ^^^

However it could be a 3 am wake-up call just to get some bread in. :-D

Well, after all it is how they did it back in the days. The bread maker woke before everyone to fire the oven and cook the bread so it would be ready by 7am.
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline JConk007

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2013, 10:37:18 PM »
Glad to get you the exact  peel that shown above and  of course for less$ too !  ;D  think its also the recipe get the caputo going!
John
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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2013, 11:42:54 PM »

Actually - thats not a bad idea.  I'll see if I can replace the dome thermometer with something that is bluetooth enabled.  I could pair it with my phone and be able to remotely check the temp on my phone.  Heck - I might even be able to program something that pings me when the oven hits a certain temp.

 -Paul

My iGrill would give you the bluetooth capabilities you are talking about.

John K
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Offline Paul_N

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2013, 08:34:42 PM »

I made another round of pizzas this evening using a dough recipe from Mitchjg.  It came out way better than last weekend, although I still ran into some difficulties with stretching the dough and launching it into the oven. 

Oven management - I spent four hours getting the oven up to temperature.  When it hit 650, I took out the temperature and continued to throw in logs.   When I had a nice layer of coals, I let it sit for 30min to an hour or so before I pushed it to its side.  When I did push everything over, the hearth & dome were between 950 and 1k.  As I made pizzas, it cooled down to 850 or so and I had better success.

I think the caputo 00 I used made a large difference, but I still got some char on the bottom.  I need to find the right temperature where I get a nice cooked crust with minimal char on the pizza.  Because the dough was sticky when stretching (62% hydration) I used some 00 to dust my hands and the top of the dough as I stretched it.  I also made the pizzas on a wooden peel that was dusted with some semolina - I think it helped.  I do get a distinct taste of char though, but I suspect that it will get better over time as I gain more experience with the tools.

I've attached a couple of pics.  One if the oven 30min before the first pie was launched.  The pie pictured was uncured pepperoni, buffala moz, and straight san marzanos.  It was damn good.

 -Paul


Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2013, 11:08:46 PM »
Thats definitely improvement. Keep working. Some near perfect pies are coming, I can tell. Also on side note, I would use less sauce for a neo pie.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2013, 11:17:25 PM »
And if you don't want NP pies, you can use other than Caputo flour and work the temp for whatever style you want, but unless it is a 7 minute + pizza, you will still not really want any oil or sugar in the dough.

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2013, 09:47:51 PM »
It is looking great. I think you will get better heat-up time as your oven is more seasoned.
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline Paul_N

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Re: My FGM 800BR Has Arrived!
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2013, 10:46:55 PM »

This morning I woke up and made another round of dough.  I took a recipe from Mitchjg (thanks!) for dough that was a mix of KABP/00.  I also made some straight up 00 dough balls at about 62%.   I planned ahead and started a fire around noon and slowly brought the oven up to about 750. Not the ideal temp for a true VPN pie, but I was able to slow things down and practice.

No pics unfortunately.

My favorite pizza of the night was garlic scapes (sautéed in EVOO) with fresh arugula from our garden.  No cheese. A little EVOO drizzled over the top and it was over the top.  The sweet scapes + the bitter arugula was the perfect combination.  I headed the advice that less is more and went easy on the sauce.   Made a huge difference - thanks!

I hit a major milestone today - all pizzas were successfully launched off the peel into the oven.  Even better, most of them were round.  The trick, I found, was to rub 00 into the grain of a wooden peel and build the pie on that.  I sprinkled enough 00 flour onto the sticky dough ball so that it was manageable.  I realize now that I didn't use enough flour while stretching previously.  Once the pie was built, I'd slide it under the metal peel (with a pinch of semolina) and then run it out to the oven.

Regarding fire management, I built a decent sized fire slowly in the center until the dome went clear.  I then pushed everything off to the side that I would cook on and added more wood.  When it was time to make the pies, I banked everything over to the other side and added more wood.   It worked out well.  When the first pie went in, I was at about 800 hearth/dome. It slowly lowered after that, which was fine by me.  The KABP/00 dough cooked in about 2.5 - 3 min.  The rolling flames went out a few times, but a couple of small logs took care of that problem.

I am really loving this oven.  It is nice when everything "clicks" and nothing comes out burnt.   I think I have enough confidence to invite friends over next weekend for my first pizza party.   I have some baguettes rising in the fridge for tomorrow morning's breakfast.  I'm digging it.  Couldn't get here without the help from the forum - thanks!!

  -Paul


 

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