Author Topic: electric deck oven in India  (Read 1398 times)

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Offline pizzadreamer

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electric deck oven in India
« on: June 08, 2013, 01:17:00 AM »
Hello there all,
im from india and posting for the very first time. To cut a long story short, i have an awful oven (actually an Oven Toaster Griller,OTG) with no pizza stone ( :) yes, i know that is completely unacceptable). I love pizzas and so do my family. Putting everything into perspective, i decided to go for a new counter top, single deck electric oven. I have had a word with Scott123  and Pete-zza about the specifications and i am going to attach the specifications of the oven in this post. I worked out the watts per inch to 7.4, but Scott did the math and came up with 3.7. Im sorry Scott, i just cant get to that figure. The internal dimensions of the oven are 18 x 18=324 sq. inches. The wattage is 2400 watts, so 2400 divided by 324 is 7.4. The internal height is 6.5 inches and im not sure at all as to how that is going to affect the final product. Since it has a selector for top/bottom/both heat source (Maximum temperature 300 degrees celcius), im wondering what combination of heating to start my experimentation with, that is presuming any of you even advise me to buy the oven in the first place.
I cant seem to attach the pdf file, so i will just spell out the specifications:
Code : Akasa Stone Pizza Oven PO 118 SS
Capacity: 6 inches - 9 pizza or 7-9 inches - 4 pizza or 10-18 inches 1 pizza
Outer Dimensions: 24 x 22 x 9 inch (W x D x H)
Inner Dimensions: 18 x 18 x 6.5 inch (W x D x H)
Outer body: Stainless Steel
Inner body : Stainless Steel
Electrical Load: 2400 Watts
With removable Pizza Stone for uniform crisp pizza
Imported german make thermostat with auto cut-off
With Top-Bottom heater selection
Temperature: upto 300C
Toughened see-through glass
Insulated outer body with high temperature ceramic wool
High insulation fiber sleeve wiring
All electrical parts ISI marked

Any advise is welcome because i feel that in india, other than the major cities, the best pizzas will probably be baked at home.

Thanks guys,
Michael.


Offline scott123

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 04:30:40 AM »
Michael, I just took another look at my spreadsheet. It had been so long since I had looked at my calculations, I had forgotten another divisor.  In an effort to account for multi-deck ovens with 3 or more elements, I've been dividing the watts/sq. inch by the number elements to get a watts/sq. inch per element.  Sorry about the confusion.

So, for this oven, it's 3.7 watts/inch2/element, which, in comparison to other ovens, is not too terribly high. On it's own, it might not discourage me from recommending this oven, but, combined with the 300 C peak temp (low for these kinds of countertop ovens), I don't think this is an oven I'd recommend purchasing- at least not for someone interested in relatively fast NY bake times.

May I inquire as to what kind of pizza you're striving to make?  If you're not all that familiar with all the styles, that's okay- even a photo or two of something that excites you would help. If, on the other hand, you just love all good non chain pizza and are looking for equipment that will give you the most flexibility, then I don't think this oven is for you.

Depending on how well it's insulated, you might be able to get a 6 minute bake from this oven, and that could end up being light years better than anything you can find locally, but there's a world of pizza below 6 minutes.

It's a tough call. May I inquire as to the price of this oven?

Offline pizzadreamer

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 05:27:46 AM »
That makes sense now, the watts/sq. inch i mean. The cost of the unit is about 17,500 rupees which is about 320 dollars. I actually narrowed down my search to this piece after a lot of searching. Size wise its perfect. temperature wise i cant get anything hotter without landing up with a huge oven which i dont need. The market in india for pizza ovens is still in its infancy, though there are a lot of chinese makes, which frankly speaking i just dont trust enough right now (after sales issues, spares, etc.). Importing one will be very difficult because of the prohibitive cost (specially since i intend using it only for home use....twice a week max).
I'm looking for what Peter Reinhart calls "Pizza Americana" and/or "Neo-neapolitan" pizza. With the temperatures available to me i know asking for a neapolitan pie is being over optimistic to say the least  :D. Just for your information my present baking times in the current "tin box" i use are TWENTY minutes, so i think if i can cut it down to 6 minutes as you mentioned, it would make a big difference. Like you said, the sad part is the "real deals" are below the 5-6 minute mark  :(.

Offline scott123

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2013, 03:54:42 AM »
Michael, I'm curious, can you see this oven before you buy it, or would this be an online purchase? If purchased online, are you getting this from a company you can return it to if there is a problem?

The reason I ask is that, even if you're okay with a theoretical 6 minute bake, I still have concerns about the build quality.  They could follow all the published specs to a T, but, something like the sheet metal could be tissue paper or the insulation could be present, but only 1/4" thick. The price for this oven is so incredibly low that I can't help but wonder if there's a reason why it's low- it feels a little too good to be true.

Right now, I think Italian and Swedish ovens have a better rep, but, there's no guarantees whatever country an oven comes from.  Indian ovens, for instance, are no more likely to have quality builds than Chinese ovens.  To be honest, the Chinese make some pretty cheap ovens, but they also have a pretty long track record (for some brands/models).  I'm not head over heels for Chinese ovens, but, if presented with a Chinese or an Indian oven at the same price, I'd probably go with the Chinese.  The operating words, of course are the 'same price.'  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Chinese oven with these specs for $320.

These specs kind of match up, watt wise, with the Chinese 'Sage' brand ovens, and the Sage ovens have some happy forum customers.  This size, though, for Sage, would most likely be $900 minimum.

I'd really like to see you buy this from somewhere with a return policy, but even if you can't secure that... $320 is a really good price.  There are grill accessories here in the U.S. that will run you more than that. 

Are you handy? Sometimes these ovens require a little tweaking- nothing major- maybe adding some insulation or things like that. The 6.5" height is a little high.  You probably will need to raise the floor a bit.  As I said, though, nothing major.

Have you checked the electricity requirements and can you handle them, either with your existing circuitry or with help from an electrician?

You never know, you might get a 4 or maybe even a 3 minute pie from this.  People get those times from a Sage oven, and, as I said, the specs are not that different.

Long story short, I'm not saying buy it, nor am I saying don't buy it, but, with that price tag, I'm definitely leaning pretty heavily towards buy it. It's a risk, though.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 03:58:12 AM by scott123 »

Offline pizzadreamer

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2013, 05:08:56 AM »
Scott, i dont know how to put this without sounding stuck up, but a friend of mine is using the same oven in a restaurant of his where he serves different kinds of bread and pizza among other things. The problem is pizza for him is not a priority and he has not pushed his oven to the limit, nor is he into the intricacies of pizza dough and the different characteristics (not that i am, but at least i am aware about temperatures, hydration levels, types of flour, protein levels, etc.). The oven itself looks solid and the dealer has told me that he has never had a problem before (corroborated by my friend). I would honestly love to ask him to try and really push his oven with whatever dough he is using and view the results....but it may be awkward coming from a person who has no restaurant experience whatsoever.
I agree about the Chinese ovens, they also look good, but what is available in the States and what is available in India could be totally different and besides they accept only bulk orders for India.
I think i will just try it out with my friend and see how it goes from there..... or what do you think?
In addition since i am a starter with such comparatively high temperatures, should i just try it out and if things work out upgrade later to something better?
I am sorry Scott, i know i am literally asking you to hold my hand through this, i apologise, but i really appreciate your experience in these matters.

Offline scott123

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2013, 07:04:48 AM »
Michael, it's no problem.

Best case scenario:

Talk your friend into letting you show up before opening, bring an IR thermometer with you, crank the bottom element on high for 1/2 hour and then take IR readings of the stone.  After that, turn the bottom element off, turn the broiler on and watch to see if it gets red, and how long it stays red for. Take photos of the broiler elements, and, if possible, lift the stone out and get a cross view of the stone (while the stone is cold).

2nd best case scenario:

See if your friend will let you see the oven during a slow time and crank the bottom burner/take readings then.

Worst case scenario (but still potentially marginally useful):

Go see the oven in action, bring a camera and shoot some photos.

If your friend can vouch that it's a well made oven, and that the parts aren't flimsy or cheap, then I think this might be a winner, but I'd see what kind of demo you can arrange first.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 03:41:24 AM by scott123 »

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2013, 08:36:55 AM »
Michael,  Scott is the expert, so I would defer to him on what to buy.  If you go with it, I would suggest you run it on both elements for the warm up period, then switch to bottom only for the next 10 or 20 minutes.  A minute or so before you put the pie in, switch to top heat only.  The idea is the stone will hold some heat and continue to cook the bottom, the top heat will give you some browning.  You may have to play with that some, and may want to see  where the thermostats are.  My oven, a chinese, but not the Sage, has separate temperature controls for the top and bottom, and I set the top one low for the warm up, and put it all the way up once the pie goes in to be sure it is on when the pie goes in.  You may have to play with different settings to see when the top element will come on and off - and you may have to set the bottom element a little lower, because heat rises, to allow the top to come on..

Offline pizzadreamer

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 03:25:08 AM »
Scott and Barry thanks a lot for the help. Will try and do what i can and keep you all posted on what is happening (may take some time though). Here is hoping it comes good  :D

Regards
Michael
(I posted a reply yesterday itself, but for some reason, it appears that it did not upload. That is why i am repeating this post again).

Offline scott123

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Re: electric deck oven in India
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 03:42:15 AM »
Sounds good, Michael. Keep us apprised of your progress.