Author Topic: Thinking about opening a pizzeria! NEED HELP PLEASE! (Read 18828 times)

Franko · « **on:** February 06, 2006, 10:10:40 PM »

Tons of questions here, wondering if anybody can help me out!

I'm originally from NY, grew up on Pizza of course. I have been now living in San Diego for the past 5 years and have only found 2 places in all of San Diego that make good NY pizza.

Well, i live in a suburb that has a large amount of homes/residents and there is not one pizzeria!! Unreal! Now i understand Pizza isn't as "big" as mexican here but still, Pizza always has it's place. The only thing you'll see is a Domino's/Papa johns or Pizza Hut delivery driver in town.

The potential is HUGE!

I'm looking for an itemized list of start up expenses. I know this maybe be a huge pain but maybe if somebody has a spread sheet with their monthly expenses i'd like to look at it just so i know what to expect.

I've never worked in a Pizzeria and this idea actually came by accident. I bought dough from one of the two favorite pizzeria's in town and made my own pie the other night. I was amazed on how easy it was to "throw" the dough in the air using my fists. This is something i've watched my whole life growing up in NY and eating Pizza probably atleast 3 times a week.

I own a few businesses so i'm ok with the business aspect of it but i would like to know more about the "nitty gritty" of the business. I know it's not an easy business thats for sure but the demand is just so there and plus i'm really big into marketing.

Just the store front space along will be $6k per month rent

How many pie's is average for a heavily populated area? I know thats a loaded question but any numbers would help.

I also wonder about the dough that people mention from NY. Do most Pizzeria's get the dough shipped from the east coast or is it really in the water? I would think shipping water is so expensive due to it's weight so shipping the dough would make more sense.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Frank

chiguy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2006, 11:11:56 PM »

Hey frank,
The rent sounds on the high side for a pizza shop. I cannot imagine Dominos is paying this much. How much is that per square foot? I read a PMQ article where they said to keep you're rent at about 6-8% of the gross sale. I am sure you could stretch it out farther if you could cut back in other areas of the business. If you figure $72,000 per year you would need to do $900,000 in gross sales to keep it at 8%. This is just one problem that stands out in my opinion.

In order to get an idea of equipment list and sales spreadsheet you may want to purchase a pizza businees CD. There are a couple CDs on EBAY for about $25 that give a decent glimpse of the ins and outs of the pizza business. Well worth the money if you are serious. Chiguy

Franko · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:40:18 AM »

Thanks for the response Chiguy!

Yes, the rents are rediculous. Thats Southern California for ya.

I might just check out that CD.

Frank

Perk · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2006, 07:14:35 AM »

I actually had the same questions and was going to post this question earlier but didn't.
I am always interested on the business side of things.
I also saw that CD on Ebay a couple weeks ago and was wondering if it was any good.
The only thing that kept me from buying the CD is the guy has a print shop and seems to make
his money selling prints on ebay, So it told me he was burnt out on pizza making??

The interesting part is, I like to break down a batch of pizza's.
I read, Peter Rienhart's book American pie about Pizzeria Bianco
The guy makes a 50lb bag of flour a day.
So 50lb bag makes about 100 14" pizzas.
So what would be the cost of 100 pizza's and then the mark up and profit?
Dough, Sauce, Cheese, Toppings

Then you have to figure out your cost of rent, equipment,
utilities and employee wages,
As an owner, you work for nothing hourly wage, but net profit after all expenses are paid.
Then you have to figure out your hours of open operation.
Some pizza places acording to Peter Riehnhart, open up at 4pm or 5pm.
Like Pizzaria Bianco which also he has no delivery or carry out.
You must dine in!!
or another place, makes you order a dough ball/s in the morning, That is the only way
you get a pizza from them!

This CD guy mentioned ordering dough, which may fast pizza type places do.
But if you want to be a pizzaria, you got to make the dough from scratch.

Also to consider, a brick oven or a comericial electric Pizza oven?

Park.Pizza · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:32:56 PM »

I have both of the Cd's; Pizza 101, and Opening a pizzeria. They both have some good advice and are worth the small investment. When opening a pizzeria or any business, you should do your homework. You will learn the ups and downs of owning a shop and get an idea of what capital and equipment you need to get started.

Plus, go to your bank and speak to a lender. If your going to take a loan from a bank, they will ask you for a business plan. Ask them for any preliminary requirements.

Heck, if your going to jump into the fire, you might as well have a hot suit.

Good luck,
Tim

joe · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2006, 01:29:10 PM »

i'm curious, i have looked at the cd's listed on ebay and they state they offer a speadsheet for developing a business plan where you plug in your own numbers for your plan. how realistic is it?

thanks,
joe

Ronzo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2006, 01:49:01 PM »

Watching this thread with baited breath. I've been pondering this for the future myself.

Big market for NY Style pizza here in Austin, but I thought about possibly incorporating both big types of pizza, NY and Chicago, as a way to distinguish myself.

Still thinking about that one...

Park.Pizza · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2006, 08:23:54 AM »

Joe,
The Cd's have a couple spread sheets to play with. One for equipment needs, pizza design, income projection, inventory, etc. These sheets can be adjusted to reflect your specifications and can be used to show the bank your expense and profit margins.

I didn't write these Cd's, but I feel they give you some ideas on how to approach the business. Plus they throw in a couple recipes to boot. So I'd say give them a spin. Or do I mean "toss"

Question: What's the highest anyone has tossed a pizza. My toss was 10'. How do I know that. That's how high my ceilings are. Doh!
Tim

Franko · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2006, 11:49:36 PM »

If i wanted to focus i NY thin crust does it make more sense to buy the dough in volume or make it myself? I guess it sounds easier to buy the dough in bulk but maybe in the long run it's better to make it from scratch?

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Frank

chiguy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:12:56 AM »

Hi Frank,
These are decisions i think you will ultimately make on you're own. Making you're own dough is very cheap and you can also develop a signature recipe that may help with marketing you're pizza. Why don't you attend the Las Vegas pizza expo and take some of the seminars. I belive it is coming up on Mar30th, it will be a real eye opener. The nice part about the show is you can make a short vacation out of it. Chiguy

Franko · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:29:36 AM »

I might just do that! hey, like you said it's an excuse to go to Vegas! Only an hour flight.

I'll google the event.

I just found out a friend of mine's father owns a few pizzeria's in Charlotte, NC and is from NY. I might have to work for him for free to find out the in's/out's.

Frank

chiguy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:02:27 PM »

Hi Franko,
The site for the Las Vegas show is www.pizzaexpo.com . A couple of the seminars i think you may benefit from are Pizza Bootcamp1&2 with Tim Huff and TomLeahman Pizza University. There are also some excellent Marketing and Businees seminars as well. You will be surprised as how many pizza operators are sitting in on the classes trying to solve some of there dough problems among other things. Chiguy

pizzaforride · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2009, 05:37:50 PM »

also make sure to get a point of sale (pos) system that is easy for even a computer novice and can do ingredient tracking, pizza creation (toppings, crusts, sizes, etc), caller ID, and delivery tracking. there's a wide range of pos systems for pizzerias at www internationalpointofsale com

Pete-zza · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2009, 06:20:02 PM »

pizzaforride,

Based on some preliminary research I conducted today, it appears that you are affiliated with the POS company you mentioned. If so, this is something that readers of your post should know.

Peter
(Moderator)

tdeane · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2009, 07:45:23 PM »

I really think you should be more concerned with learning how to make great pizza first. If the product isn't good you won't be in business long. Have you ever worked in a restaurant? It is a lot harder making pizza in a restaurant than it is at home. You need to be fast but be able to keep the same level of quality that you would have if you were taking your time. As far as expense goes, the big one is probably the oven. The oven i have costs 13,000 new but i was lucky to buy it a bit cheaper. You need refridgeration, prep tables, peels, pizza boxes, flour, tomatoes, vegetables, herbs, a stove, oils, spices, knives, ladles, pizza cutters, dough cutters, food processor(s), meat slicer, dishwasher or proper dish sink, storage racks, dough mixer, dough boxes,cash register etc. Cheese is the biggest chunk of the food cost. As far as getting dough or water from the east coast,that would be ridiculous and completely unnecessary. The water in NY is not the secret to the pizza and it would be way too expensive to ship it like that. I don't have a delivery guy but use a delivery service. It's a lot easier to do it that way at first until business builds up. $6000 a month rent sounds outrageous as you have to figure in utilities on top of that. The cost of running the oven can be very expensive. This is kind of a rambling post, I just wrote down thoughts as i had them. I hope it helps and i would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Terry

JConk007 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2009, 09:03:25 PM »

I purchased the Pizza 101 when I saw a great location go up for sale by where I work. an old bar /pub corner location Unfortunately it was filled with mold and needed a ton of work. After about 6 months it went up in flames?? Now its rebuilt?
anyway the CD can provide a few really good point It talks about rent to sales .... 6000 a mo is lot lot of pies I know that! get a good product and slip in off the beaten path! Gotta be something available for substantially less close by
John

Deacon Volker · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2009, 09:15:19 PM »

There's a fellow over on the pmq.com boards, Mike Hartzle I believe that has a consulting company but he offers a LOT of free advice and spreadsheets on his website. http://rejuvenateyourrestaurant.com/

Might be worth your look. I also picked up several of the CD's and books...most I found were weak and a near waste of my money. There was one that stood out over the others and you may look for it. "ABC's of Making Money in the Pizza Business"by Gerald Ciccarone. And get yourself hooked up with a local SCORE chapter and sign up for some of their seminars on opening your own business, writing your business plan etc. There is a wealth of info out there if you just start to look for it.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:09:30 AM »

Franko:

In the meantime, I suggest getting a part-time job at a pizza-place, if possible, to just see how things are done. That would give you some "inside" experience. Try being a cook, if possible, as that will give you the greatest amount of knowledge for your time spent there. I think this would be crucial since you mentioned you've not worked in a pizzeria before. It doesn't have to be a very good pizza place, either. Even if you see things you think are bad or flawed, that will also be knowledge you can take with you when you are able to open your own place to know what not to do. Experience is the best teacher.

-ME

jeff v · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:37:02 AM »

This is a 3 year old thread that appears to have been bumped by pizzaforride to get the name of his/her website out.

JMO,

Jeff

Pete-zza · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:59:41 AM »

Quote from: jeff v on February 10, 2009, 10:37:02 AM

This is a 3 year old thread that appears to have been bumped by pizzaforride to get the name of his/her website out.

Jeff,

I would say that you are correct. The last time that Franco was on the forum was July 20, 2006. So, any replies to his post are for the time being more likely to benefit others than Franco.

Peter