Author Topic: Prince Street Pizza  (Read 1117 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Prince Street Pizza
« on: June 05, 2015, 02:13:10 PM »
Starting the thread because I'm surprised no one else has yet. I'll be trying to clone/reverse engineer this pie in the coming weeks. It's up there for my favorite square with L&B and Di Fara.

On a side note, while big air bubbles in a bread like crust similar to Pizzarium look very pretty, these cake like crumbs with smaller, evenly dispersed air bubbles always end up being my favorite. Coincidentally, they are also very light and not as dense as one would think. I don't know how they achieve it, but I'm sure all three are same day doughs and likely have a good amount of EVOO in them. And, probably have a typical "NY" style hydration (60 to 65 percent.)

I know Prince Street cooks in an oiled pan (unlike L&B.) my bottom was pretty well fried. I don't know if they parbake or not, but the toppings looked perfectly well cooked (Mozz melty white, Roni cups not charred) so they may.

Prince Street also uses a cooked sauce on the Roni slice; I can't speak for the plain. If I had one complaint, it was the sauce bordering on cloyingly sweet. It did appear sauce was applied in top of the fresh mozzarella.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 02:15:11 PM by hotsawce »


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 02:22:23 PM »
Roni cups not charred)

sauce bordering on cloyingly sweet.

It must be a great crust, because the top doesn't sound very appetizing. Sound like school foodservice pizza. Why would you want cupped pepperoni if not to char the edge?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 02:28:30 PM »
I live in NYC  and have been eating great, if not incredible pizza multiple times a week. You wouldn't understand unless you could experience it regularly. The perfectly cooked Roni cups are far superior to those that have been charred and are acrid.

I found this to be the case when I worked at Paulie Gee's with the sopresatta as well. It was always much better when applied mid bake or cooled lightly (I wasn't the only one who felt this way.) the fat melts perfectly without destroying the character of the cured meat.

I also thought best pizza was going to have food service pepperoni when I saw it didn't even curl....but I found it to be perfect in its application.

Like I stated, plenty of things look pretty but I've found the "things that shouldn't be great Based on looks" notion to be way off. That's probably why L&B looks like a piece of white bread slathered in sauce but tastes anything but...

It must be a great crust, because the top doesn't sound very appetizing. Sound like school foodservice pizza. Why would you want cupped pepperoni if not to char the edge?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 02:39:54 PM »
I have to disagree with the edge-charring on pepperoni, at least in the NP-bake time context. A bit of char on the edge is, IMO, night-and-day superior to not. It's not acrid any more than proper NP crust char/leoparding. It's another flavor dimension in the toppings.  I don't mean black to the center butt definitely very dark around at least part of the rim.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 03:25:36 PM »
Have you tried this slice?

I have to disagree with the edge-charring on pepperoni, at least in the NP-bake time context. A bit of char on the edge is, IMO, night-and-day superior to not. It's not acrid any more than proper NP crust char/leoparding. It's another flavor dimension in the toppings.  I don't mean black to the center butt definitely very dark around at least part of the rim.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 03:33:04 PM »
Have you tried this slice?

No, and I'm not commenting on it specifically. My comment was on the notion that "perfectly well cooked" with respect to pepperoni means no char. That I completely disagree with.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 03:34:09 PM »
"Cloyingly sweet" sauce is pretty much a deal killer for me too.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Mmmph

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1040
  • Location: ILM NC
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 03:46:37 PM »
I ate Prince St pizza last time I was in Manhattan. I found it to be lacking.

We had the Spicy Spring slices. Too sweet, too overdone. Soppressata tasted stale.

No recommendation here.
Sono venuto, ho visto, ho mangiato

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 05:11:22 PM »
It's very clearly pepperoni. And just a reminder this is not posted in the recommendation or review thread. But I will say if you don't find this a prime specimen of square NY pizza you've probably had your taste buds lasered off.


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 05:19:42 PM »
But I will say if you don't find this a prime specimen of square NY pizza you've probably had your taste buds lasered off.

Pepperoni char aside, I guess my confusion is how a pizza with a sauce that bordering on cloyingly sweet is a prime specimen? That's a pretty major problem, no?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 05:30:07 PM »
Or Frankie designed the sweet sauce to counteract the spicy pepperoni. And I mentioned it as a minor gripe. It certainly Would not sway me from eating

Pepperoni char aside, I guess my confusion is how a pizza with a sauce that bordering on cloyingly sweet is a prime specimen? That's a pretty major problem, no?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 05:36:14 PM »
I was just going by what you said. Cloying means "disgusting or distasteful by reason of excess; excessively sweet."
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 05:45:18 PM »
I have a friend I usually stay with when I'm in town at the corner of Mercer and Houston. I'll definitely walk over give it a try next time I'm there
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1179
  • Location: Northridge, CA
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2015, 10:02:30 PM »
The pizza in that photo looks like a hot mess., literally   It's overtopped.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline HBolte

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 465
  • Location: Clarkston, MI
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 11:02:45 PM »
The place sure gets great reviews on Yelp.  I may have to try it tomorrow or Sunday to see for myself...
Hans

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2015, 08:29:42 AM »
Actually, it's not overtopped but thanks for your expert opinion. Like I said, it's amazing the expertise that comes from people that make a few pizzas at home, haven't actually tried the slice, and can somehow determine the merit of a pizza based on how it looks.

15 replies and not one is relevant to my original post. That's part of the reason I hardly post here anymore. Can there be one thread that stays on topic for once?

The pizza in that photo looks like a hot mess., literally   It's overtopped.

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1179
  • Location: Northridge, CA
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 09:44:14 AM »
Since it's well known that most pizza places use the same dough for their NY-style and their pan pizzas, why not try a Lehman-ish dough, par-bake with just sauce on top in an oiled pan? Put a load of cheese on top and you're there. 

Things have never been more like today than they are right now.


Offline David Esq.

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1080
  • Location: New York
  • Making pizza since 2013
    • Eating With David
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2015, 10:10:56 AM »
I think your idea of "relevant to" is kind of difficult to fathom. You didn't ask a single question so obviously you were not expecting an answer.

You did express a number of opinions, as well as surprise that nobody has started a thread on this pizza before. So, a lot of people chimed in about what they thought of the pizza as you pictured and described it.   

Seems the responses were as much on topic as can be expected as they are all responding to what you wrote.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16243
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 10:14:41 AM »
15 replies and not one is relevant to my original post. That's part of the reason I hardly post here anymore. Can there be one thread that stays on topic for once?

How were my comments off topic? I was responding directly to two comments you made about the pizza in your original post. Even if my personal preference on pepperoni doneness was off topic, asking about the sauce that you said bordered on disgustingly sweet certainly was not - particularly when others have made similar observations.

Actually, it's not overtopped but thanks for your expert opinion. Like I said, it's amazing the expertise that comes from people that make a few pizzas at home, haven't actually tried the slice, and can somehow determine the merit of a pizza based on how it looks.

It is amazing but not the snide way you mean it. That's exactly what happens here every day. People come here looking for help and many problems (and merits) are determined from the pictures they post. In more cases than not, the help they receive from people who have never tasted their pizza make a big difference. Here is a recent example of people here giving a lot of meaningful help with nothing but a picture and short video to work from: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36842.0. Ultimately a pretty good clone was created that the OP said matched his memory of the pizza. I don't think any of the people who helped had ever tried the real thing.

The fact of the matter is that there are many people here who have made more that a few pies, more than a few styles, and perhaps most importantly, have experimented extensively. For these people, it is entirely possible to look at a pizza and make a lot of good educated guesses, if not make precise diagnoses. I always thought it was interesting when people would make similar comments about scott123 in other forums. I think usually they were jealous of him for some reason or maybe he hurt their feelings sometime - or maybe they just didn't know enough about pizza to know a picture is worth a 1000 words. Notwithstanding, he was right most of the time. To say that one can't look at a picture of a pizza and determine a lot about it is simply wrong, and I personally question the motivations of the person making the comment to the contrary.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 10:17:41 AM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline David Esq.

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1080
  • Location: New York
  • Making pizza since 2013
    • Eating With David
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2015, 11:15:34 AM »
My favorite person for picture diagnosis is mini oven on the fresh loaf. She is a wealth of useful information and a great dough detective for the bread baker. She can tell you exactly what went wrong based on the crumb shot. Shaping, over/under fermented, stone too cold or oven not up to temp, poor shaping, etc. Always right on the money with the remedy that works.

Offline David Esq.

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1080
  • Location: New York
  • Making pizza since 2013
    • Eating With David
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2015, 11:15:52 AM »
(Now, that is off topic)

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 718
Re: Prince Street Pizza
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2015, 05:37:57 PM »
Just an update; I found out Prince street does not par bake and bakes for about 12 minutes in a marsal oven.


I made a test dough with 62% hydration and 2% oil. The crumb looked a bit wetter than Prince street so I would guess it's a lower hydration. I did a medium/intense mix with high gluten flour until well developed and could begin to see the small bubble, evenly dispersed cakey crumb.

The pizza itself was cakey and not bready, so my next attempt will be a lower hydration with oil and an intense mix.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 05:39:44 PM by hotsawce »