Focaccia topped with onion confit, marinated mushrooms, parm and olive oil

[Bill/SFNM]

Here is my latest effort. Used KABF, Ischia starter, 75% hydration, topped with onion confit, marinated mushrooms, parm, and olive oil.

Bill/SFNM

[David]

Cut that into Six please !

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Bill that looks terrific...

 I just prepared an Ischia focaccia doughball. Gonna' have it tonight with some pesto pasta and garlic and butter sauteed shrimp. I was just gonna' do a classic oil/rosemary/parmesan/garlic/seasalt/fresh ground black pepper but now I'm not so sure.

Dan

[Bill/SFNM]

Dan,

I've found that the dough made with a very active Ischia starter and allowed to ferment overnight at room temp has a mild tang that is perfect with the onions that have been slowly cooked in red wine and red wine vinegar and also the marinated mushrooms and the sharp parmesan. They all play off each other to give an unexpected blast of flavor that is also subtle. Hard to describe but very good although I wouldn't kick a piece of your Genovese focaccia out of my mouth. Let us know how it comes out. What flour do you use? What hydration? What oven temp? How long?

Bill/SFNM

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Bill,
Can't precisely answer all your questions because I am not using any accurate measurements on my recent starter-type doughs. 

I can't really see the point since I don't know what the hydration level is with my sponge starter. But my guess would be about the same as my pizza dough which is about 62%. This will be my first attempt at focaccia with the Ischia starter. I am very pleased with the results I am now acheiving however on the sourdough pizzas so I thought I would give this a try. I certainly would like to take the time to do an overnight ferment but I'll have to be satisfied with just a few hours this time. And since I had my hand on a store-made, celo-wrapped focaccia loaf this morning, I am sure I will be pleased with my decision (to put it back and move ahead with the Ischia).

 Now as the other questions:
The starter is fed with KASL and that is what my pizzas are made from. This however is just AP flour, canola oil, a little salt and sugar. I plan to bake at 475 F. for about 15 minutes but that will be negotiable based on appearance.

If you wouldn't mind, could you share with us the recipe, dough and baking techniques you used?

Thanks,
Dan

[Bill/SFNM]

Ingredient    Bakers %
Bread Flour    100.00%
Water               73.28%
Starter               31.20%
IDY                   0.00%
Salt                   3.51%
Sugar                1.00%
   

Assuming my starter is 54% water to flour, then the actual hydration is 75%.

Approx. 1500 grams total dough for a half-sheet pan.

Since this has a very high hydration, I knead very slowly with fork mixer until extremely stretchy (30-40 minutes). I give it a 20 minute rest and then a few more turns around the mixer.

Place in oiled container and cover and let ferment at room temp until tripled in volume.

Pour into oiled half-sheet pan. Make dimples with fingers to gently stretch out dough to edges.

Brush with lots of oil. 

Allow to proof until doubled. Dimple and oil again.

Top and bake at 475 for 15-20 minutes.

Drizzle with more good oil.

Bill/SFNM

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Bill,
Thanks for posting your recipe. I will give your method a try next time. As for mine, here are some pictures of the process and final product. I hand knead all my sourdough mixes. I was hand knead my sourdough breads so when I decided to give sourdough pizza a try I just continued in that direction.

Note the olives! Not part of my original plan but my wife  had to take ownership of some part of the project.

Dan

[Pete-zza]

Bill,

I know that you have done a lot of work with high hydration doughs--far higher than what most people are likely to be able to handle. Do you attribute your ability to achieve the high hydration levels to the Santos mixer or were you able to achieve similar hydration levels before you got the Santos mixer? In my own experience with a standard KitchenAid stand mixer it is very difficult, and also time consuming, to "squeeze" enough water into the flour to achieve hydration levels of around 70%, even with high absorption flours like the KASL high-gluten flour. Have you developed any useful tips or tecniques, apart from your Santos mixer, that might help others achieve the high hydration levels you have been able to achieve?

Peter

[Bill/SFNM]

Don Pietro,

It has nothing to do with the Santos mixer. I was making these high-hydration breads long before I got the Santos using a KA Artisan mixer with the standard beater hook (not the dough hook). The "leap of faith" required for these breads is to knead them slowly for a very long time, sometimes 30-40 minutes or even more. Using KA bread flour, the gluten continues to build even though the dough still seems too moist. Avoid the temptation to add more flour to speed up the process. Once the dough balls up around the beater on low/med speed, it is done even though it is still sticky. But you can stretch it easily to 2 to 3 ft long strands.  I allow the dough to ferment to about triple volume. I brush oil on the loaves while they are proofing and also sprinkle them with plenty of salt. More oil is brushed on just before baking and also upon removal from the oven. There are many ways to shape and dimple the dough, but all resulting breads are soft, silky, and airy.

The key here is the amount of hydration. For KABF, there is a point somewhere around 80-85% where no amount of kneading will create a gluten structure sufficient to hold in the gases from the fermenting yeast (it actually makes a delicious but fairly dense bread). 

Give it a try when you have a chance. It is really good bread.

Bill/SFNM

[Pete-zza]

Don Guglielmo,

Thank you very much. Those are great tips and I do indeed plan to try to achieve the high hydration levels you have been working with.

My interest is primarily with respect to pizza dough. I even wondered whether sifting the flour (even though the millers say this is unnecessary) would help increase the absorption of water by the flour. I know that with pizza dough, hydration levels that are too high can make it difficult to handle the dough and that there is an increased risk of the dressed pizza sticking to the peel or screen. I have used the flat beater (paddle) attachment before, but I usually changed over to the dough hook once the dough started to form a ball. I also found it necessary to let the dough rest one or more times to absorb the water and allow the addition of more water.

Thanks again.

Peter

[Bill/SFNM]

My interest is primarily with respect to pizza dough.

Don Pietro,

Well I guess we could debate whether or not focaccia is pizza or bread or what diiferent words are used throughout Italy for what we call pizza. But regarding what we call neapolitan pizzas on this forum, I've found using Caputo 00 pizzeria flour that 64%-65% is the maximum I can get without the dough being too sticky to work with.  I do use differing amounts of bench flour depending on the batch so who knows how much flour is actually in the final pie.

Never thought of sifting the flour. I've always felt the slow, gentle kneading over a long period gave the flour plenty of time to absorb the water. OTOH, I have beenusing Marco's advice about a 20 minute riposo at the end of the kneading. The texture of the flour definitely does change after the rest.


Bill/SFNM

[Wazatron]

Hi there - PizzaDanPizzaMan, would you mind posting your recipe?  I've been trying to make focaccia that looked that good and have never come close!

Also, what is the "Starter" that you refer to and that are in other recipes I see for focaccia?

Thanks!

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Hello Wazatron,

I will start with your question regarding the "starter", which is a type of yeast, in fact it replaces the commercial yeast that would otherwise be necessary in your dough. You have likely eaten sourdough bread at some point in your life, this is the starter (often referred to as sourdough starter) that you see mentioned around these forums. Some of us have gone to the extent of purchasing the "bacteria" in dried form from a source in Idaho who has gathered these bacteria from around the world and has dried them and packaged them for sale to fellows like us who then get these starters going and I am proud to say, my family has not bought a loaf of commercial bread in over three months, and I am now making almost all of my pizzas (averaging about four 13" pies a week) using nothing but flour, water, salt and "starter". And the best thing is, my pizzas are just getting better and better. Oh, and with just a slight bit of care, I expect I will be able to get many, many years of use out of this one batch of starter, which is replenished with each use.

As far as my focaccia recipe goes, I simply use the same recipe I use for pizza but substitute all purpose flour in place of high gluten, and I add a couple tablespoons of light olive oil. As Bill noted, a higher hydration level is needed but I don't measure the flour anymore, I know I will get scorned by some for saying that, but I am now mixing and kneading all my sourdough mixes by hand and so I have found no need to measure. I simply put the flour, salt and water in a bowl (with the active starter of course), mix with a spoon until no longer able to mix, then turn it out onto a solid surface countertop and start adding flour while kneading for several minutes until I get the right feel for the dough. I simply make the focaccia dough a little "stickier". Then allow to sit for several hours or overnight if possible and then prepare as shown in the photos.

I am really glad I invested the time to make this starter culture work, it has added immensely to my joy of baking, and pizza making in particular.

Dan