Author Topic: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?  (Read 1389 times)

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Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 09:22:07 PM »
Scott- You know it's funny but I take your analogy in the exact opposite way. I like the interpretation better that we aren't all lawyers in courtroom- out to sue somebody or pass judgements, we aren't out to define black and white or right and wrong. Multiple interpretations in life should be allowed while in the courtroom the law is law and there is no other.  Now I know next time I'm driving in the car listening to music and someone says "wow this sounds a lot like the style of Queens' music," I will reply "nope, it's not Queen, so it's not their style because it isn't "=" to Queen. No Freddie Mercury, no Queen." Haha

Hope you know I'm just giving you a hard time. Sometimes people have different interpretations.


Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 09:55:26 PM »
The zealous defense of "New York pizza" is just so New York.  I guess there is a California style of pizza, but I couldn't imagine working up any energy for a zealous defense of "California style pizza". Basically I guess "California style pizza" would be anything made at the California Pizza Kitchen.  No wonder we don't defend it!  Good for New Yorkers that they have something worth defending.  All done with that signature pugnacity too, just as it should be. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 10:32:06 PM »
I agree with Tom's use of the term "style" and its application. The word has a common dictionary meaning and while it is arguable that the term covers the geographical example that scott123 gave, I do not see that term limited to geography.

But rather than engaging in semantic arm wrestling on the meaning and application of the word "style", I'd rather tackle the question Jay (redox) raised on the use of the hex disk from PizzaTools.com. What is important to know is that the hex disk is intended to be a direct screen replacement, with the capability of producing the same results as achieved using a screen.  Tom discusses this point in his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10662&p=73609&hilit=#p73609. It is also important to know that both the pizza screen and the hex disk were developed for use with conveyor ovens. So, whether Jay uses a screen or hex disk in his home oven, he won't achieve the same results as might be achieved using a conveyor oven but his results using his home oven should be quite comparable. But neither will emulate a NY style pizza as baked in a deck oven. To get closer to that objective, he would have to use a stone or steel plate. But assuming that he uses a NY style dough formulation with his hex disk in his home oven, including the NY style dough formulation that scott123 uses and writes about, what is Jay to call his pizza? I would personally call it a "NY style", using the common definition of the word "style".

To add to the above, Tom has written often and extensively on the use of hearth/cloud disks to produce credible NY "style" pizzas in the newer, high efficiency air impingement conveyor ovens (such as the Lincoln Fast Bake oven). See, for example, his PMQTT post in the thread at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7773&p=53054&hilit=#p53040. Of course, not everyone will agree with Tom's characterization of such pizzas as NY "style", as noted by pizzashark at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7801&hilit=#p53326, but it is inevitable that the hearth product will be called "NY style".

Peter

Offline scott123

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 11:35:18 PM »
Now I know next time I'm driving in the car listening to music and someone says "wow this sounds a lot like the style of Queens' music," I will reply "nope, it's not Queen, so it's not their style because it isn't "=" to Queen. No Freddie Mercury, no Queen."

Jeff, do you know how many times I've heard people talk about 'NY style pizza?' I've been talking about pizza for 30 years, and that's probably incorporated tens of thousands of conversations. Do you know how many times I've heard the phrase pizza 'in the style of NY?' Twice- once in this thread and another time when this 'style' question was brought up previously.

Just say it out loud. Pizza in the style of New York.  Don't you feel the least bit ridiculous saying it?  It's almost like 'Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?'  It's a pretentious and pedantic expression that a NYer would laugh at. 'NY style pizza' is a single entity.  It cannot be disconstructed.  "In the style of" is appropriate for many areas (such as in the style of Queen or in the style of the Baroque period), and if you're a music, history or art student, go crazy.  But NY, Neapolitan, Trentonian, Detroit, and, sure, even Chicagoan pizza lovers aren't/have never viewed pizza from this scholastic perspective.  None of these tens of millions of people is writing their doctoral thesis on pizza.

'NY style pizza' is as much a single entity as 'Queen' (and probably as renowned and beloved).   Imagine, if you will, hearing someone that sounds like Queen on the radio, only to find out that they've named themselves 'Queen.'  How would you feel about that?

I'm all for experimentation, for variation, to go where no man has gone before.  Just don't redefine our culture by using our name.  There's over 30,000 towns and cities in the U.S.  Do your thing- improvise- sing your own song, play your own tune- make it as similar or as different to the classics as you want, but, at the end of the day, use your own city to name your pizza, not mine.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 12:09:25 AM by scott123 »

Offline scott123

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 11:43:10 PM »
Basically I guess "California style pizza" would be anything made at the California Pizza Kitchen.  No wonder we don't defend it!

I defend California Pizza all the time...
 
indirectly  ;D Sure, Italian grandmothers have probably been putting anything in their pantries on pizza for centuries, but, somewhere along the line, toppings started being viewed from an extremely limited perspective, and Spago took that small thinking and obliterated it. CPK, imo, is as Californian as Dominos is Brooklynian.  I probably am not the most vocal defender of pineapple and ham pies, but, unlike great numbers of my NY brethren, I go to great lengths to defend anyone's right to put anything on a pizza. If that's not defending the spirit of Spago, of California pizza, I don't know what is  ;D

Offline scott123

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2013, 12:08:20 AM »
Of course, not everyone will agree with Tom's characterization of such pizzas as NY "style", as noted by pizzashark at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7801&hilit=#p53326


Quote
Don't make a fatal mistake and put NY STyle pizza on your sign with a conveyor oven inside. In my opinion, you will fail. Nuf Said.


I have a new hero  ;D

Offline scott123

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2013, 01:08:40 AM »
Screens or pans can be used for NY style, why not?

Tom, that pizza is better than just about every pizza in my area, and if I had a place that sold it nearby, I'd be buying a pie right this second (seriously, it's killing me just looking at the photo), but, according to my admittedly somewhat narrow definition of NY style pizza, with what I believe looks to be a 10+ minute bake time, I might classify it as more of a Chicago thin/NY hybrid than a pure NY style pie.

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2013, 02:46:20 AM »
I defend California Pizza all the time...
 
indirectly  ;D Sure, Italian grandmothers have probably been putting anything in their pantries on pizza for centuries, but, somewhere along the line, toppings started being viewed from an extremely limited perspective, and Spago took that small thinking and obliterated it. CPK, imo, is as Californian as Dominos is Brooklynian.  I probably am not the most vocal defender of pineapple and ham pies, but, unlike great numbers of my NY brethren, I go to great lengths to defend anyone's right to put anything on a pizza. If that's not defending the spirit of Spago, of California pizza, I don't know what is  ;D

Thank you, I think. 

There is actually kind of an interesting common thread to the Spago/CPK pizzas.  Both pizzas were developed by a really talented pizzamaker named Ed LaDou. Ed was pizzaiolo for Wolfgang Puck at the original Spago, where he first pioneered the idea of putting all kinds of wild things on top of pizza dough.  He was hired by the founders of CPK to develop their dough and recipes as well.  During the 1990's Ed also had his own restaurant, Caiote, which was located in Laurel Canyon in Los Angeles. That is one of the very cool parts of LA.  Somehow, a legend developed that a certain salad served at Caiote had the magical ability of bringing on labor in overdue pregnant women. This caught on in a big way.  I remember one night having dinner there and there were pregnant women on three sides of our table.  So anyway, I guess if there is a "California style pizza" we could thank Ed LaDou for it.  I will say that the pizzas he used to serve at Caiote were some of the best ones I ate back in those days, when no one in California paid any attention at all to pizza. 

Best regards,

TinRoof

Offline JD

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2013, 09:24:45 AM »
Tom, that pizza is better than just about every pizza in my area, and if I had a place that sold it nearby, I'd be buying a pie right this second (seriously, it's killing me just looking at the photo), but, according to my admittedly somewhat narrow definition of NY style pizza, with what I believe looks to be a 10+ minute bake time, I might classify it as more of a Chicago thin/NY hybrid than a pure NY style pie.

Clarify something for me Scott... I grew up in eastern Long Island and a typical pizza around my area is like the attached picture (picture is from Mulberry Street or Gino's)

I'm pretty sure it's anywhere from 8-12 minute bake, which is fairly typical for my area. So is this not NY pizza?


Josh

Offline scott123

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2013, 01:49:16 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's anywhere from 8-12 minute bake, which is fairly typical for my area. So is this not NY pizza?

JD, I can't say for certain how long that was baked for, but based on a few visual indicators, I'd estimate that it was baked for less than 10 minutes, making it, imo, an example of a classic crispy NY style pie- which is, of course, very much in alignment with your preference.

If you go back in time, it was these hugely popular pizzerias that helped define the style- and part of being hugely popular was being immensely successful/turning out large numbers of pizzas.  Genre defining pizzerias would be severely limited by 12 minute bake times.


Offline JD

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Re: Is is possible to bake NY-style-ish on a pizza disc?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2013, 05:24:38 PM »
JD, I can't say for certain how long that was baked for, but based on a few visual indicators, I'd estimate that it was baked for less than 10 minutes, making it, imo, an example of a classic crispy NY style pie- which is, of course, very much in alignment with your preference.

If you go back in time, it was these hugely popular pizzerias that helped define the style- and part of being hugely popular was being immensely successful/turning out large numbers of pizzas.  Genre defining pizzerias would be severely limited by 12 minute bake times.

Okay, glad to hear. I was under the impression you only consider 4min as NY.
Josh