Author Topic: love my black stone  (Read 9467 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #125 on: July 09, 2015, 10:31:54 AM »
And 6-8 pies in one oven?!  How small are these pies?  Or how big is that oven?!  I think the max I've been comfortable working with is 5... and even then, I sometimes burn one.   :-[

Here is a picture of 9 going at one time at 2Amys. There wasn't much turning going on as I watched. If you look at the pictures of the pizza I had, you can see that a couple have more browning on one side, one has little browning, and one is pretty even. You can tell from the cheese on the Margheritas that it wasn't an overly long bake. None were burnt on the outside or look particularly good or bad. I suspect that has a lot to do with where it was placed in the oven. Eating-wise, the pizza was not good at all. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13334.0

I think this shows you don't need to do a lot of turning in a properly hot, sufficiently well balanced oven, but also that there are limits to what any oven can do.
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Offline pieguy914

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #126 on: July 09, 2015, 04:39:30 PM »
Here is a picture of 9 going at one time at 2Amys. There wasn't much turning going on as I watched. If you look at the pictures of the pizza I had, you can see that a couple have more browning on one side, one has little browning, and one is pretty even. You can tell from the cheese on the Margheritas that it wasn't an overly long bake. None were burnt on the outside or look particularly good or bad. I suspect that has a lot to do with where it was placed in the oven. Eating-wise, the pizza was not good at all. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13334.0

I think this shows you don't need to do a lot of turning in a properly hot, sufficiently well balanced oven, but also that there are limits to what any oven can do.

I think this proves my point that you should be rotating and turning the pies often. Like you said, some pies had more browning, some have a little, and some were evenly cooked. The key to a restaurants success is consistency and in order to get a consistent pie in these ovens you need to keep turning and positioning the pie in order to achieve your desired results.  Obviously you don't NEED to do a lot of turning, but as your photos show, the pies will be inconsistent.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #127 on: July 09, 2015, 05:32:31 PM »
In a perfectly controlled oven with just a few pies, yes, you can get a perfect pie by doing only one or two turns. From my experience, its on those busy Friday and Saturday nights, when your constantly throwing wood in the oven to keep the fire blazing and have 6-8 pies cooking at once that the pies have to constantly be turned/moved in order to achieve your restaurants "perfect" style pie, cause the oven may be too hot or cold in certain spots and can burn very fast depending on the pies location.

I think this proves my point that you should be rotating and turning the pies often. Like you said, some pies had more browning, some have a little, and some were evenly cooked. The key to a restaurants success is consistency and in order to get a consistent pie in these ovens you need to keep turning and positioning the pie in order to achieve your desired results.  Obviously you don't NEED to do a lot of turning, but as your photos show, the pies will be inconsistent.

"Should" is one thing, "have to" is something else entirely.
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Offline pieguy914

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2015, 08:18:46 PM »
"Should" is one thing, "have to" is something else entirely.

Haha, very true - the beauty of the english language.

Obviously you can throw a pie in the oven for 3 hours, never turn it, watch it burn to a crisp cause you don't "have to" take it out, but "should" you do that? Of course not.

Offline thezaman

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #129 on: July 10, 2015, 01:46:36 AM »
A couple of pies tonight. Playing with caputo blue with 20 percent A/P flour and 62 percent hydration. Also a cheese cutter from Grande that you can get nice strips of cheese from. Bake times were under a minute. Pizza was soft no crispness. My wood oven gives this flour blend a different texture, A little crisper. It has to be bake time. Wood oven is about 90 seconds.again love Blackstone pies!

Online David Esq.

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #130 on: July 10, 2015, 06:32:38 AM »
Why proofing under a grill? Is that what the picture shows?

Offline deb415611

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #131 on: July 10, 2015, 06:38:14 AM »
Why proofing under a grill? Is that what the picture shows?

Also a cheese cutter from Grande that you can get nice strips of cheese from.

Deb

Offline thezaman

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #132 on: July 10, 2015, 07:45:56 AM »
Cheese cutter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #133 on: July 10, 2015, 09:01:05 AM »
Haha, very true - the beauty of the english language.

Obviously you can throw a pie in the oven for 3 hours, never turn it, watch it burn to a crisp cause you don't "have to" take it out, but "should" you do that? Of course not.

What does that have to do with anything? That not how you used "should" and "have to." In some cases you should turn a pie more (and not overload your oven) to make a better pie, but that is a far cry from having to turn your pie to avoid burning
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 09:05:05 AM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline pieguy914

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #134 on: July 10, 2015, 02:09:52 PM »
What does that have to do with anything? That not how you used "should" and "have to." In some cases you should turn a pie more (and not overload your oven) to make a better pie, but that is a far cry from having to turn your pie to avoid burning

No, how I used "should" and "have to" were in regards to getting a consistent pie in a commercial setting. If you read my posts again I stated you "have to" constantly be turning and moving your pies when you have 6-8 pies going at once in order to achieve your restaurants perfect, consistent style pie. Clearly the restaurant you posted with the 9 pies in the oven wasn't worried about a consistent product, as you pointed out as some were lightly browned, some evenly browned and some darker. We're really just nit picking language now and getting away from the original topic in which I said in my experience with WFO's in a commercial environment, the pies need to be turned and moved frequently in order to achieve consistent results.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #135 on: July 10, 2015, 04:30:44 PM »
We're really just nit picking language now and getting away from the original topic in which I said in my experience with WFO's in a commercial environment, the pies need to be turned and moved frequently in order to achieve consistent results.

I wonder if you've had the chance to work with a capable oven? You commented "the oven may be too hot or cold in certain spots and can burn very fast depending on the pies location." I don't doubt that some ovens are simply incapable, however relatively minor differences in browning hardly make the case that pies require frequent turning in a proper oven. Did you even look at the pictures I referenced? Could a little more turning have improved them? Perhaps. Would the difference be meaningful enough that anyone other than a pizza super freak would have noticed? Probably not.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline pieguy914

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2015, 08:12:12 AM »
I wonder if you've had the chance to work with a capable oven? You commented "the oven may be too hot or cold in certain spots and can burn very fast depending on the pies location." I don't doubt that some ovens are simply incapable, however relatively minor differences in browning hardly make the case that pies require frequent turning in a proper oven. Did you even look at the pictures I referenced? Could a little more turning have improved them? Perhaps. Would the difference be meaningful enough that anyone other than a pizza super freak would have noticed? Probably not.

I hate to say it but your starting to sound a little pretentious to me. A "capable" oven? Capable of what? The oven I worked with was "capable" of cooking 200-300 neopolitan pies a night for a highly acclaimed restaurant. All of my posts were in reference to my experiences, which to me, make it hard to believe that if you have 6-8 pies constantly placed in a wood fired oven, you can get a consistent product without doing much turning and shuffling. The only ovens I've worked with in which I've been able to load pies, leave them, and do minimal turning would be standard deck ovens. Just out of curiousity, what's your experience with cooking with WFOs in a commercial setting?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #137 on: July 11, 2015, 10:44:52 AM »
I hate to say it but your starting to sound a little pretentious to me. A "capable" oven? Capable of what? The oven I worked with was "capable" of cooking 200-300 neopolitan pies a night for a highly acclaimed restaurant. All of my posts were in reference to my experiences, which to me, make it hard to believe that if you have 6-8 pies constantly placed in a wood fired oven, you can get a consistent product without doing much turning and shuffling. The only ovens I've worked with in which I've been able to load pies, leave them, and do minimal turning would be standard deck ovens. Just out of curiousity, what's your experience with cooking with WFOs in a commercial setting?

Capable of an even bake. It's not pretentious. It is what it is. All WFOs are not the same nor do they have the same capabilities. Fire management also matters. To be clear, I'm not saying that stacking pies in the oven like cord wood is a good thing nor am I saying that turning a pizza won't make a better pie. I'm simply responding to your comments in Replies 114 and 120 implying that baking in WFO is necessarily anything like baking in a BS or that pies will necessarily "burn very fast" if you don't turn them often. I showed you a video of an oven where this is clearly not the case and a picture of a very different oven baking more pies than you could possibly turn more than once or twice during a Neapolitan bake time. The bakes may not have been perfectly even as I pointed out but nothing was burned or even uneven to the point where 99.99999% of customers would even notice. If that's not possible in the oven you have used, then it would stand to reason that either the fire management is sub-optimal or the oven is not capable, no? I have zero experience baking in a commercial setting, but I do bake in a commercial WFO with some regularity.
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Offline pieguy914

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #138 on: July 11, 2015, 04:15:46 PM »
Capable of an even bake. It's not pretentious. It is what it is. All WFOs are not the same nor do they have the same capabilities. Fire management also matters. To be clear, I'm not saying that stacking pies in the oven like cord wood is a good thing nor am I saying that turning a pizza won't make a better pie. I'm simply responding to your comments in Replies 114 and 120 implying that baking in WFO is necessarily anything like baking in a BS or that pies will necessarily "burn very fast" if you don't turn them often. I showed you a video of an oven where this is clearly not the case and a picture of a very different oven baking more pies than you could possibly turn more than once or twice during a Neapolitan bake time. The bakes may not have been perfectly even as I pointed out but nothing was burned or even uneven to the point where 99.99999% of customers would even notice. If that's not possible in the oven you have used, then it would stand to reason that either the fire management is sub-optimal or the oven is not capable, no? I have zero experience baking in a commercial setting, but I do bake in a commercial WFO with some regularity.

My posts all state from my experience and how I try to emulate the cooking process in the BS as I did with a WFO in order to try to replicate the results I achieved in a WFO.

This conversation is over. It troubles me how you can speak so matter of factly about a subject you have no experience with...

Offline c4lin

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #139 on: July 11, 2015, 05:57:41 PM »
One of today's bake, 90 seconds. 63% hydration, 2.8% salt, 0.035% CY. I was aiming for 36h room temp fermentation at 68F, but it was still rising fast (0.035% is probably for a 20h rise mad at 68F for me). So it was 12h bulk rise, then balled and cold fridge for 24h aprox. I found it easier to open when balled after a bulk rise... It was very good. This was a mozz, parm, heavy cream, pepper and drizzle of honey at the end. Delicious...

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2015, 07:05:01 PM »
This conversation is over. It troubles me how you can speak so matter of factly about a subject you have no experience with...

Please do regale us with tales of your vast experience.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline thezaman

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #141 on: July 12, 2015, 10:27:02 AM »
maybe a new topic needs to be started so that all of us wood oven owners can learn from each other and maximize the performance in our ovens. i use Craig's fire management all of the time . it was explained to me by roberto, and i know that ciro salvo uses it . i assume most Neapolitan pizzerias in Naples also use it.   


Offline Napolizza

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #142 on: July 13, 2015, 11:04:54 AM »

One of today's bake, 90 seconds. 63% hydration, 2.8% salt, 0.035% CY. I was aiming for 36h room temp fermentation at 68F, but it was still rising fast (0.035% is probably for a 20h rise mad at 68F for me). So it was 12h bulk rise, then balled and cold fridge for 24h aprox. I found it easier to open when balled after a bulk rise... It was very good. This was a mozz, parm, heavy cream, pepper and drizzle of honey at the end. Delicious...

Gorgeous pizza!!

Offline c4lin

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #143 on: July 13, 2015, 11:06:10 AM »

Gorgeous pizza!!

Thx Napolizza! Improving...

Offline c4lin

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #144 on: August 09, 2015, 07:28:58 PM »
Guys, any recommendations for a small pizza turning peel for the BS?

Offline red kiosk

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #145 on: August 09, 2015, 08:04:36 PM »
Guys, any recommendations for a small pizza turning peel for the BS?

Here's the one I used with with Blackstone. Works like a charm!

http://www.amazon.com/American-Metalcraft-17080-Aluminum-Handle/dp/B004FNU6GG/?tag=pmak-20

Take care!

Jim
The pathologically precise are annoying, but right!

Offline c4lin

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Re: love my black stone
« Reply #146 on: August 09, 2015, 08:07:02 PM »
Here's the one I used with with Blackstone. Works like a charm!

http://www.amazon.com/American-Metalcraft-17080-Aluminum-Handle/dp/B004FNU6GG/?tag=pmak-20

Take care!

Jim

Lol, bought it 15 mins ago!! Spot on, thanks Jim.

Carlos