Author Topic: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt  (Read 1123 times)

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Offline PizzaManic

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Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« on: December 17, 2014, 10:03:43 AM »
Hi Craig & the rest of the Neo Family

Everytime I look for Pizzanogrophy, I come to the Neo Section and sure to find some appetizing pies. I have made attempts previously on Neo Style pie, namely Raquel by pftaylor but I wasn't able to get as close to the way his looks like and lets not even go into the taste factor - it was disastrous to say the least. I've come to realise that maybe I've taken the wrong approach and what was glaring me right in the face everytime I come to the Neo Section always bypassed me and that's Craigs Neo Style - so simple.

What I found interesting on Craigs threads was that there were attempts with KAAP & I may be mistaken but I also remember reading some attempts with KABF although I can't seem to find the posts  :-\. I'm having a Pizza Day in the week to come and the main theme is NY Style however I thought whilst the oven is up and running - why not try out some Neo Style - it is the Ferrari of Pizza Styles in my opinion  ;D

None the less, I have Bread Flour with a protein content of 13.1 as well as All Purpose Flour with a protein content of 11.8%. I would like to make an attempt with both flours to see which one is superior to the other - I can't get my hands on Caputo here in SA but maybe one day I will and be sure to try it out as that's probably the most superior flour for Neo Style.

1. I'd like to find out what is the best Formula you've developed for using both All Purpose flour and Bread Flour before moving over to Caputo Only?
2. I don't have a culture so IDY it's going to be
3. How long should I bake for since I've seen bake times of 60 secs and below. Last time I attempted Raquel, I passed well over 3 minutes and I found the Pizza still wasn't looking right but by the time I removed it from my Oven, it was a leathery mess.

Thanks and look forward to hearing back
PM
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 10:10:48 AM by PizzaManic »
Regards Mo

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2014, 11:22:58 AM »
If I was going to make my normal dough with KAAP instead of Caputo, the only change I'd make is to increase the hydration to 64%.  I wouldn't use bread flour.

The only thing I use KABF for is my Johnny's Clone (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,33831.0.html)

IDY is fine.

Bake as fast as you can.
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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2014, 04:31:10 AM »
Thanks Craig - I'll go with just the All Purpose Flour - I'm assuming bake time for a Margaritta should be under 90 secs but will try to get my oven as hot as possible. Leaving the Neo for last so I'm not under pressure - by then everyone should be saturated with the NY Style.

That Johnny's Clone looks Fantastic - I'm definitely going to give it a go.
Regards Mo

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2014, 08:25:44 AM »
I wouldn't use bread flour.




+1.   I've used in in a pinch, but bread flour tends to burn before it bakes at Neo temps.
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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 08:44:06 AM »
I'm using the formula in Craigs Thread on how to Make his Dough found here - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.msg202047.html#msg202047

With regards to substituting IDY for Culture - can I do it 1:1 - that's 1.3% according to the formula?
What is the TF for this pizza - I'm inputting the formula on the Dough Calc for a 12" Pizza.

Thanks
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 09:49:02 AM by PizzaManic »
Regards Mo

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 10:45:10 AM »
Use Craig's yeast time/temp table to find (a starting point for) the yeast amount. Fine tune as necessary.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26831.0.html
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 10:56:41 AM by vtsteve »

Offline jsaras

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 10:54:31 AM »

I'm using the formula in Craigs Thread on how to Make his Dough found here - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.msg202047.html#msg202047

With regards to substituting IDY for Culture - can I do it 1:1 - that's 1.3% according to the formula?

No. The chart for dry and cake yeast is distinct from the one made for starters.
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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2014, 02:05:48 AM »
Thanks Guys

I had a look at the chart and came to the following conclusion. I want to do a 35 hour Bulk Rise in fridge and then 6 Hours balled rise at room temp.

Please correct me if I am wrong but would 0.2% of IDY work?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 03:55:37 AM by PizzaManic »
Regards Mo

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2014, 10:14:56 AM »
Thanks Guys

I had a look at the chart and came to the following conclusion. I want to do a 35 hour Bulk Rise in fridge and then 6 Hours balled rise at room temp.

Please correct me if I am wrong but would 0.2% of IDY work?

I would suggest doing all 41 hours in balls. I think your balls will be much easier to open and your pizza will be better.

Keep track of how the dough progresses so you can tweak your yeast% and process as needed.

Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2014, 12:42:51 AM »
Thanks Craig - I'm going to take that advice and ball everything from the start.
Regards Mo


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2014, 08:00:28 AM »
Keep in mind that I'm only suggesting all the rise in balls because you are doing a cold ferment. If the formula was for fermenting at or near room temp, I'd likely suggest half and half (at least 12 hours in balls).
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 02:22:20 AM »
Thanks Craig - I made my batch yesterday - left it in Bulk for now and will ball them tonight then place them back in the fridge. Tomorrow, I will take it out about 6-8 hours before I need to use them and just leave it at room temp.

Wish me luck - I hope I finally get even a little success with Neo Style - I haven't been doing too good with my last few attempts.
Regards Mo

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2015, 03:38:50 AM »
Hi Craig

Last week, your style Pizza didn't make it to my oven - it was pushed into the freezer and we took out out yesterday for another bake off.

The dough lost it's ball shape and was just a flat mass of dough that was over-fermented and very sticky - using about 2tsp of flour, I managed to ball the dough back up and left it in the fridge for about 4 hours before use.

The dough rolled out fairly easily and at this point my oven was nice and hot but just to be extra sure I added some more wood and the flames were now licking the top of the dome.The first pizza was just a plan margaritta - before loading it into the oven, I had my timer set for 90 secs.

Pizza was loaded in and once my 90 sec timer was up, I removed it for serving. It had no leoparding or char spots whatsover and upon my guests tasting it, they said it was a little doughy and underdone.

Never the less, the next dough was rolled and topped again as a margaritta. This time, I decided not to time it but just go by sight and feel. It probably baked for 2.5 to 3 mins and a little bit of charring appeared with no real leoparding. This time, it baked much better than the last one - a light crisp with a tender chew to it.

By the end of the evening, I had 2 more dough balls left but everyone was saturated so 1 of my guests requested I par bake the dough and freeze it for later use. Dough was rolled out as normal and then par baked- it blew up like a pita bread - I just kept popping it but that didn't really help - it just kept blowing up so much that I thought it's going to explode. At about 60 secs, I removed it and turned it over so the side that was up is now in contact with my oven floor - it was removed about 20 secs later - total par bake time was 80 secs. I removed it just as I saw light brown spots appearing. It was cooled and then topped with tomato sauce and left in the micro to keep away the flies and cool down completely to freeze.

About 2 hours later, we had some unexpected guests and oven was still very hot but all I had were those 2 par baked crusts. We topped it and returned it back to the hot oven where we baked it until the cheese melted and then it was served. I have to say, I was surprised at how this pizza turned out - One of my guests who was there right through the earlier pizza's tasted this 1 and said it was the best of the lot - I my self tasted it and it crisped up really well - the cornicone has a hollow through it so it was really light - overall this turned out to be a really nice pizza after the par baking.

I'm wondering whether my flour or oven temp contributed to the poor outcome of the fresh dough?
Regards Mo

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craigs Neo Style - Attempt
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 09:38:14 AM »
I'm wondering whether my flour or oven temp contributed to the poor outcome of the fresh dough?

When you say "fresh dough," are you referring to the dough that was in the freezer? If so, I probably wouldn't consider that "fresh dough." That dough took a good bit of abuse being over-fermented, frozen, thawed, and reballed. Also, you wrote that you "rolled out" the dough. Do you mean with a rolling pin? That's pretty hard on dough too.

Given the dough issues and that I don't know your oven temp, it's hard to say with much certainty how much of a factor the flour and oven temp were. Posting pictures of the top and bottom of the pizzas would help a lot too. From what you wrote, it does sound like the oven was too cool. Based on your 2.5-3 minute comment, my guess is that the oven was around 700-750F. You won't get much if any leoparding at 750F.

Untopped dough will often puff up like that. It's common for people to do that on purpose. When it's done, split the thing in half, fill it with nutella (or some other sweet filling) and maybe fruit, put the top half back on and some powdered sugar on top.

Timing a bake can give you useful information, but a timer can never tell you when a pizza is done. Only the pizza can tell you that.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage