Author Topic: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish  (Read 298 times)

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Offline jsaras

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Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« on: April 22, 2015, 11:58:36 PM »
Some time ago,  recall reading somewhere that Evelyne Slomon gave pizza classes in which she used a two-hour "emergency" poolish to make the best possible pizza in that short time window.  Does anyone know the specifics?
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 12:45:01 AM »
This is the only thing I could find so far, haven't read through them all but it's something??
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9027.msg78054#msg78054

jon
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2015, 08:55:55 AM »
Some time ago,  recall reading somewhere that Evelyne Slomon gave pizza classes in which she used a two-hour "emergency" poolish to make the best possible pizza in that short time window.  Does anyone know the specifics?
Jonas,

I believe what you are looking for is at the bottom of Evelyne's post at Reply 606 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg41054#msg41054. She used the term sponge in lieu of poolish but what she used was a poolish.

You can also use Didier Rosada's Chart A (under Poolish) at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm to create an "emergency" poolish, but you will have to modify the amounts of ingredients, especially the yeast, to accommodate the duration of prefermentation you are after and the temperature of prefermentation you would be using. The adjustments can be made using the methodology described at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5028.msg42572#msg42572 even though what is described there is for a dough rather than a poolish. However, in your case, the math would be much simplified. The Reference Rate in your case would be the Rosada poolish numbers (I suggest using the 3-hour numbers). The Predicted Rate (there would be only one in your case, not three as shown in Reply 6 referenced above) would be the number of hours of prefermentation of the poolish and the temperature of prefermentation.

Peter

Offline jsaras

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2015, 07:13:51 PM »
Thanks Peter.  Just to be clear on Evelyne's instructions, does the poolish AND the remainder have IDY in them, or is all the recipe yeast contained in the poolish?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 07:16:03 PM by jsaras »
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Offline HBolte

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 07:23:39 PM »
I don't know if it's correct but I use all the water, all the IDY and half of the flour.
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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 08:09:09 PM »
Just to be clear on Evelyne's instructions, does the poolish AND the remainder have IDY in them, or is all the recipe yeast contained in the poolish?
Jonas,

As I interpret Evelyne's instructions, there is IDY in both the poolish (3%) and in the dough (1%) into which the poolish is incorporated. She gives two options: subtract the flour and water from the total formula flour and water (but not the yeast) or just add the entire poolish to the recipe as given. The first approach is basically the way that the preferment dough calculating tool operates with respect to the flour and water calculations. The second approach increases the total weight of the dough by the amount of the poolish.

Peter

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 12:57:15 PM »
As I interpret Evelyne's instructions, there is IDY in both the poolish (3%) and in the dough (1%) into which the poolish is incorporated. She gives two options: subtract the flour and water from the total formula flour and water (but not the yeast) or just add the entire poolish to the recipe as given. The first approach is basically the way that the preferment dough calculating tool operates with respect to the flour and water calculations. The second approach increases the total weight of the dough by the amount of the poolish.

Peter

Quote
For example: For 20% starter: 10 pounds flour= 100% of the formula, the starter will be 32 ounces (20%), water at equal parts=32 ounces of flour and IDY at 3% (of the 32ounces)=.48 ounces
Mix together and allow to sit at room temperature 1 hour (72-77 degree room temperature)

Peter,
This is very interesting post and I have a few questions about the Evelyne's quick dough formula.

One: is when I do the math listed was 32oz of flour for the poolish and 3% yeast. My math says 3% of 32oz is .96oz of yeast not the .48oz listed. Is this a math error or am I doing something wrong with the formula?

Two: in the recipe it says 1% yeast. Is that an additional 1% of total flour weight or just of the remaining flour weight not used in the poolish?

Three: Is this a recomened method for a good quality same day dough. If so what is the end resulting doughs quality and has anyone giveen this a try and posted results?

Four: If this is not the prefered recipe, what are your recomendations for a good same day dough?

Chris
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:18:12 PM by hodgey1 »

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 02:01:40 PM »
Chris,

There appears to be a math error somewhere. Usually, for a poolish you select the amount of the poolish--20% in Evelyne's case--in relation to the total formula water, not the total formula flour. For some reason, Evelyne elected to measure it in relation to the total formula flour--10 pounds (160 ounces) in her case. So, 20% of 160 ounces = 32 ounces. Since a poolish has equal weights of flour and water, one would add 32 ounces of water to the flour, along with the yeast, or 3% in Evelyne's case. Usually, the yeast in a poolish is in relation to the flour in the poolish. So, 3% of 32 ounces = 0.96 ounces, not 0.48 ounces.

I interpreted Eveyne's instructions to call for an additional 1% yeast as part of the final mix. But I can see how one might be confused on this point.

Now you can see why I use the Didier Rosada instructions when it comes to preferments like the poolish and how to modify a total formula to separate out the preferment from the rest of the formula. To avoid confusion, I believe that Evelyne should have attached weights to the percents of her total formula and then carved out the preferment portion. Then, the difference would have become the remainder of the ingredients that would have been combined with the preferment as part of the final mix. If you or Jonas would like to pick a dough ball weight to use for the total formula (the one with the Caputo flour), I can convert it to use a poolish if you'd like. However, I would use the Rosada methods to carve things up.

As for your question about same day doughs, in my experience there are some good ones and some not so good ones. So, if people are looking for a few hours dough that produces results equal to doughs fermented for much longer periods, they are likely to be disappointed. But there are times where people do not want to wait for days to eat their pizza, so a same day dough meets a need. Some time ago, I put together a collection of doughs that can be made and used within a few hours, just as Evelyne tried to explain in her post. That collection is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8297.msg71576#msg71576. Unless members step forward to give you their favorite recipes for same day doughs, you might scan the list of recipes in the collection I created to see is something strikes a chord. If you are willing to devote more than a few hours to a dough, you might take a look at the JerryMac dough recipes as set forth in another collection I put together, at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11860.msg110289#msg110289. The JerryMac dough recipes have historically been popular ones for a same day pizza.

Peter


Offline jsaras

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 02:55:08 PM »
Hi Peter,

If you could oblige to break it out for a 280 gram dough ball (or perhaps two) that would be terrific.

J
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Offline hodgey1

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 03:23:03 PM »
The dough was then put into a covered oiled container (a plastic Rubbermaid storage container) and allowed to ferment for 1 ½ hours. At the end of that time, the dough was punched down, reshaped, and allowed to proof for another 1 ½ hours

Peter, Thanks as always for the great detail.

Only because of time considerations when doing a same day dough, is the punch down and rerise something that could be skipped without too much negative impact to the dough in your "Jerry Mac" posted recipe?

Chris


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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 04:36:03 PM »
Only because of time considerations when doing a same day dough, is the punch down and rerise something that could be skipped without too much negative impact to the dough in your "Jerry Mac" posted recipe?

Chris
Chris,

When JerryMac made his dough, which was enough for two pizzas, he let the dough rise in bulk for 1 1/2 hours. It was then divided into two pieces, and they were allowed to rise for another 1 1/2 hours. In my case, since I made only enough dough for one pizza, I punched the dough down after the first 1 1/2-hour rise, and then let it rise for another 1 1/2 hours. So, my total rise time was the same as JerryMac's. I suppose you can let the dough rise for the three hours total but I don't know what form it will take. The punchdown serves to add strength to the gluten structure of the dough, which is something that may be desirable because otherwise the dough may be too extensible and hard to handle. Even with the punchdown in my case, the dough was quite extensible. In your case, you might watch the dough if you are in a position to do so and use your best judgment as to whether the puncdown is necessary. For example, if the dough rises by several multiples, you might want to punch it down.

For the record, I believe that the recipe you referenced is the one at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6515.msg55855#msg55855.

Peter

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 09:09:34 PM »
Peter,

I will be giving this recipe a try soon. I need a good go-to recipe for a same day dough and this sounds good from your test.

Thanks,
Chris

Offline HBolte

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Re: Evelyne Slomon's 2-hour emergency poolish
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 10:51:09 PM »
Peter,

I will be giving this recipe a try soon. I need a good go-to recipe for a same day dough and this sounds good from your test.

Thanks,
Chris

Peter's same day PJ clone is excellent too! http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59357.html#msg59357
Hans