Author Topic: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)  (Read 8974 times)

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Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #150 on: February 04, 2016, 01:16:40 PM »
The LDM definitely adds some color, a bit of crunch, and possibly a bit of flavor.  This particular crust just gave me this subjective feeling that my pizza had a more "commercial" taste and feel to it.   Better than somthing I am suppose to be able to make at home I guess. 

For me the difference is very subtle but the LDMP does make a difference. I incorporate it into most every pizza now at a level of 1-2%. I addition to browning, it seems to contribute something to the crumb that's hard to describe. Maybe slightly more "custard-like" if that makes sense. Whatever it is, I like it! 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #151 on: February 04, 2016, 01:19:30 PM »
For me the difference is very subtle but the LDMP does make a difference. I incorporate it into most every pizza now at a level of 1-2%. I addition to browning, it seems to contribute something to the crumb that's hard to describe. Maybe slightly more "custard-like" if that makes sense. Whatever it is, I like it!
I agree, the difference with the LDM is perceptible but hard to put into words.  I'll have to do a test batch with and without to be able to better appreciate the effect and description of LDM on pizza crust.

Offline ponzu

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #152 on: February 04, 2016, 01:45:20 PM »

I'll have to do some more testing.  Maybe make a pie without LDM versus one with.  Subjectly, the pies seem crispier than my normal pies, but I am just barely settling down on a technique now.  I've been changing so much of my technique lately chasing after this idea of a perfect crust. 

The LDM definitely adds some color, a bit of crunch, and possibly a bit of flavor.  This particular crust just gave me this subjective feeling that my pizza had a more "commercial" taste and feel to it.   Better than somthing I am suppose to be able to make at home I guess.  It just stood apart from my normal pies, but in a better way.  It's hard to describe.  Again, I'll have to do a side by side testing to be sure.  I'm pretty close to nailing down my goto recipe and technique. 

I really can't stress enough the effect of the reheat.  For this pie and the pies I've been enjoying lately, I will bake it for around 5-6 min, let the pie sit on a rack to cool for a few minutes to allow some more moisture to escape.  I'll pick up the pie and make mental notes on how stiff the bottom crust is.  After a few minutes of cool down, I'll place the pizza back onto a hot stone (no particular temp reading here) for a minute.  Once I take it out, the crispiness factor increases noticeably.   The pie in the video was reheated prior to taking the video.   Sometimes if I'm hungry, I'll go ahead and serve the pie straight from the oven after a few minutes of cooling but reheat subsequent slices on the stone.  They are always much more crispy and enjoyable.   Again, factors that give me an ultra crispy crust...

-HG flour (bromated if possibly)
-moderately hydrated (not high hydration unless you can balance gluten strength and a lengthy bake time)
-peak gluten development to achieve an aerated crumb
-2-3% oil to soften crumb
-10% egg white (optional)
-well proofed dough
-baked with a hot surface temp of 600-625F
-6 min plus bake.  I have achieved it in a 4 min bake, but 6min plus is easier.  Not too long though or the cheese will dry. 
-And definitely a reheat

Other than that, the recipe is pretty typical and straight forward.

This is a wealth of information, thank you for sharing it!

reheating is a very interesting idea, and I love cast iron reheated day old pizza slices for the same reason.

I will have to invest in some LDMP.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #153 on: February 04, 2016, 02:05:36 PM »
I was a big skeptic of LDM when Mike (Essen1) first started talking about it, however after a couple dozen pies made with it, IMO, in a short (4-6 hour) RT fermentation, the flavor difference, AOTBE, is significant. My wife says the NY squares I've been making recently with LDM are the best pizza I've ever made. I'm sold.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #154 on: February 04, 2016, 04:56:45 PM »
Ponzu, you might consider sending Larry (thezaman) a PM.  I believe he has some that he will share with members.

Craig, I was thinking of adding 0.25-0.5% to a NP dough.  Couldn't hurt right?   ;)

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #155 on: February 04, 2016, 05:06:34 PM »
Craig, I was thinking of adding 0.25-0.5% to a NP dough.  Couldn't hurt right?   ;)

I happy to let you blaze that trail.   ;D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline rparker

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #156 on: February 04, 2016, 06:26:38 PM »
I was a big skeptic of LDM when Mike (Essen1) first started talking about it, however after a couple dozen pies made with it, IMO, in a short (4-6 hour) RT fermentation, the flavor difference, AOTBE, is significant. My wife says the NY squares I've been making recently with LDM are the best pizza I've ever made. I'm sold.
Detroiters benefit from LDM as well.

Offline derricktung

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #157 on: March 02, 2016, 07:26:53 AM »
Sorry, slow to the game.  LDM = ??  "something" diastatic malt?

Online the1mu

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #158 on: March 02, 2016, 08:00:26 AM »

Sorry, slow to the game.  LDM = ??  "something" diastatic malt?

"Something"="low" :D

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #159 on: March 02, 2016, 08:26:22 AM »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #160 on: March 02, 2016, 08:46:04 PM »
Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread.
Craig I've seen you mention a couple times that you really look the LDM for short fermentations. Does it not work well for longer ones. I just made my first batch with it, 2% and a 48 hr cold ferment. I did not like the results.
Thanks

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #161 on: March 05, 2016, 08:38:33 PM »
Crunchy one I did in November.
Ryan


Offline ponzu

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #162 on: March 05, 2016, 11:40:14 PM »
Looks great. What are the specs?

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #163 on: March 06, 2016, 01:51:27 AM »
Flour (100%)
Water (66%)
IDY (.23%)
Salt (2.2%)
Oil (1%)
Sugar (1%)
Total (170.43%):   1112.86 g | 39.25 oz | 2.45 lbs | TF = 0.085
Single Ball:   370.95 g | 13.08 oz | 0.82 lbs

This is all I could find in my notes. You can tell by the marks it must have started in a pan. (how anarchical of me, I didn't get a bigger peel til December) Probably was finished on the stone.
Ryan

Offline ponzu

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #164 on: March 06, 2016, 02:27:40 AM »
Temp and minutes guess? 

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #165 on: March 06, 2016, 03:44:17 AM »
I always bake on full blast, my oven goes to 550 but it runs hot. I don't have an IR gun, only a hanging thermometer which is pinned past 600, no idea how accurate it really is though. I wanna say probably 9 minutes considering it started in a pan. One thing to note is that pizza has no cheese, I have to assume the lack of moisture helps achieve and retain that crispness. I wish I had pictures from the other pizzas from that bake so I could remember.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 03:47:39 AM by invertedisdead »
Ryan

Offline derricktung

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #166 on: March 09, 2016, 08:58:54 AM »
Several of us have been using this one: http://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=60

Craig - Thanks for the link!  I'm gonna have to dig a bit and find out how much people are using of this stuff... is there a typical expected ratio?  (Thinking about trying it with some detroit pies...)

"Something"="low" :D

Thanks!! 

Offline rparker

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #167 on: March 09, 2016, 09:10:24 AM »
Craig - Thanks for the link!  I'm gonna have to dig a bit and find out how much people are using of this stuff... is there a typical expected ratio?  (Thinking about trying it with some detroit pies...)

Thanks!!
I use a different brand (Central Milling) and do not know how it compares, but I do enjoy it in my Detroit Styles. I'm at 1% and couple it with 1% Blackberry Blossom or Blueberry Blossom honey. (If I had neither honey, I think I'd either try plain sugar or simply double the malt powder.) I re-purposed a lower-hydration dough sans LDM/DMP for a Detroit Style a few nights ago. While it was good, there was something missing - a sort of sweetness -  and I think it was that.

Offline derricktung

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #168 on: March 09, 2016, 09:20:43 AM »
I use a different brand (Central Milling) and do not know how it compares, but I do enjoy it in my Detroit Styles. I'm at 1% and couple it with 1% Blackberry Blossom or Blueberry Blossom honey. (If I had neither honey, I think I'd either try plain sugar or simply double the malt powder.) I re-purposed a lower-hydration dough sans LDM/DMP for a Detroit Style a few nights ago. While it was good, there was something missing - a sort of sweetness -  and I think it was that.

Very interesting.. mind sharing your full detroit formulation?  I'm completely new to using the DM ingredient... does it require some type of sugar?

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #169 on: March 09, 2016, 09:42:55 AM »
I use Essen1's formula and always get crispy crust. Except I bump the diastatic malt powder up to 3%.
 My bake time is 7:30 min to 8:00min max.

Remember, bump it up to 3%  malt. I usually use hoosier hill farm malt, and I also have ab mauri malt on hand as well.

Offline rparker

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #170 on: March 09, 2016, 01:07:45 PM »
Very interesting.. mind sharing your full detroit formulation?  I'm completely new to using the DM ingredient... does it require some type of sugar?
I use some type of sugar, but not sure if it needs. I kind of scored big the first try and not adjusted much. A bit less water down to 72% might have been about the extent of changes.

I found my last formula, complete with a brief note to myself about the Durum Flour amount. I can't believe it's been since September 30th since mixing a batch. 

Some pics:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=38045.msg394963#msg394963
The formula and protocol. (note higher water than posted below)
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=38045.msg392016#msg392016

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):    292g      (291.68 g for 1)
     150g - Full Strength(FS)
     100g "00" (Either Caputo Pizzeria or the Baker's Flour in the red bag)
     *25g Durum (Double next time?)
   **17g "Dough Improver"
Water (72%):  210      
IDY (.65%):    1.9 g         
Salt (1.75%):    5.1g        
***Honey (1%):    2.92 g          
Diastatic Malt Powder (1%):  2.92 g     
Total (179.4%):  525 g

*The Durum flour I use is the one from King Arthur. it's NOT the Durum/Semolina that's in the Whole Foods' bulk bins. I'd take a picture, but I just discovered I am out.
**The Dough improver does a little bit on flavor, but is not required. I'm not sure if I will re-order when I run out.
*** I do not like standard clover honey from the grocery store due to after-taste. Replace with another type of sugar.

IIRC, the total time in bulk ferment and pan rising is about 2-3 hours. I think I remember getting a little nervous last time because it ran ahead of schedule.


Offline derricktung

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Re: Reverse engineering "the crunch" (pizzeria beddia)
« Reply #171 on: March 11, 2016, 07:04:57 AM »
I use some type of sugar, but not sure if it needs. I kind of scored big the first try and not adjusted much. A bit less water down to 72% might have been about the extent of changes.


Much thanks!  Looking forward to a few tests... perhaps this weekend if I can pull together the ingredients tonight!