Author Topic: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil  (Read 398 times)

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Offline kaka

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NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« on: May 07, 2014, 10:30:36 AM »
Hello friends,

I'm from Brazil and love NYSP, however, I can't make those recipes with High Gluten Flour or anything different than AP, sadly that's the only flour that I can find in my city, is there any substitution? I made this recipe (http://feelingfoodish.com/the-best-new-york-style-pizza-dough/) but the rim was very HARD! Not crispy, just hard!  :'(

Help me, maybe I should I travel to NY everytime I want a NYSP, so I should live in NY!  ;D

Thanks


Online tinroofrusted

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 11:19:29 AM »
AP flour should make a pretty decent NY style pizza for you.  If you can find bread flour that will be better, but AP should work too.  You could add a bit of vital wheat gluten to AP flour to increase the gluten in the dough but probably that's not available if bread flour isn't available to you. 

Give this recipe a try and see how it goes.

Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 01:10:21 PM »
Kaca, a few things. First, we have forum members in Brazil making pizza with bread flour, which, at around 12.7% protein, is the ideal level of protein for NY style pizza.  Now, from your previous posts, it sounds like you're outside the urban areas where these types of flours can be found, but I would still do a little more digging, since the protein content of the flour is very important to the quality of the final product.  What protein level (grams per 100 gram) is the AP flour you're using?

00 Pizzeria flour is available in Sao Paulo. Perhaps you could find a company willing to ship you some? 00 flour is far from ideal, but it's better than AP. Member andreguidon

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7696

just opened a pizzeria in Sao Paulo, so he's probably quite busy, but I would drop him a line to see if he has any ideas about sourcing flour. He's making/selling Neapolitan pizza using 00 flour, but if you can get your hands on his flour, that would, as I said, be a big step up.

No offense to tinroofrusted, but I would definitely not use the recipe he linked to.  The water content, while appropriate for a higher protein flour, when used with AP, will give you a dough that's far too wet.  Also, if I'm hearing you correctly, you've been to NYC and are familiar with the style.  That particular recipe, with the amount of dough it uses, produces a crust that's far thicker than traditional NY style pizza. The recipe you're using, with your present flour, is a better choice. We can get you a softer, more pliable pizza without adding more water or creating a thicker, less authentic crust.

Hard crusts are caused by a variety of reasons.  The biggest culprit is typically oven setup. If you bake at too low a temp, the crust dries out and takes on a stale quality. How hot does your oven get? Are you baking on a stone? If so, how thick is the stone and what is it made of?

The next biggest culprit is flour. Unmalted flours are notorious for making hard, stale textured crusts with longer (4+ minute) bake times.  Even if you do find bread flour (such as 00 Pizzeria flour), in Brazil, it most likely won't be malted.  The malt in flour helps to break down the dough and tenderize it. It also creates sugar so the crust browns faster.  You can compensate for the lack of malt with a few tweaks to your formula, though. In the recipe you're using, double the sugar and triple the oil. Both will go a long way in compensating for lack of malt in the flour. Lastly, you can further compensate for the lack of malt by extending the fermentation.  I would start with refrigerating the dough for 4 days- no less, no more.  For 4 days, you'll most likely need to tweak your yeast a bit.  Try going with 3/4 t.- but watch the dough and make sure it doubles by the time you stretch the skin. If it doesn't double, next time adjust the yeast up, and, if it goes well beyond double, adjust the yeast down.

Fermentation is the third culprit.  The dough needs to double prior to stretching in order for it to produce the right amount of oven spring. Oven spring produces tenderness in the crust. The dough also needs to double to produce a skin that can easily be stretched.  The last tweak to the recipe- go 3 hours out of the fridge, not 1-2.  Colder dough takes longer to bake- longer bake time, drier crust, harder.

Offline kaka

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 02:35:06 PM »
Wow! Tx friends! The Brazilian guy is going to be a valuable source of knowledge! I actually live in a big city (over 1M of population) however the biggest supermarket rarely have those things, maybe I need to call to a supplier. About the oven, I use my kitchen oven, very far from what should be, I will buy a small pizza oven for about US$200 probably will increase the quality.  :)

Offline Divani

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 03:55:26 PM »
Kaka,
Where do you live in Brazil?
Abs.

Offline kaka

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 04:00:02 PM »
Kaka,
Where do you live in Brazil?
Abs.

Hello friend, I'm from Belém

Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 04:06:09 PM »
About the oven, I use my kitchen oven, very far from what should be, I will buy a small pizza oven for about US$200 probably will increase the quality.  :)


Not necessarily.  Small pizza ovens have a tendency to be weak.

If you're talking about an oven like this:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.0

then, yes, you should be able to, with some work, pull out a respectable NY style pie, albeit an extremely small version (for NY, bigger is generally better).

I'm reasonably certain, though, that your home oven should better just about any pizza oven you can buy for US$200.

How hot does your home oven get? Are you using a stone to bake the pizza on? How thick is the stone?

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 04:15:07 PM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31720.msg315022#msg315022 turned out about as NY as i've had in the past. and it was all done with AP
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Offline kaka

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 04:35:16 PM »
Not necessarily.  Small pizza ovens have a tendency to be weak.

If you're talking about an oven like this:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.0

then, yes, you should be able to, with some work, pull out a respectable NY style pie, albeit an extremely small version (for NY, bigger is generally better).

I'm reasonably certain, though, that your home oven should better just about any pizza oven you can buy for US$200.

How hot does your home oven get? Are you using a stone to bake the pizza on? How thick is the stone?


Actually I was wrong, it isn't a small oven and it's more expensive than US$200  :(

I was baking the pizza without any stone! Shame on me!  :-\

I will buy one stone before the pro' oven, do you have any rec. on specifications?  :)

My kitchen oven reaches 500 F
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 05:39:28 PM by kaka »

Offline scott123

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 05:37:33 PM »
Kaca,  a stone is a huge help.  As far as which stone, it depends on your oven.  I hate to sound like a broken record, but do you know the peak temp on your oven dial?


Offline kaka

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 05:56:50 PM »
Kaca,  a stone is a huge help.  As far as which stone, it depends on your oven.  I hate to sound like a broken record, but do you know the peak temp on your oven dial?

Yes, it is 500 º F but I don't have a thermometer, I just preheat for about 40 minutes and bake it until it get's cooked (brownish rim)

Offline Divani

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 10:54:42 AM »
Hello friend, I'm from Belém

Kaka,

I have used Renata Especial and Anaconda Premium with success for bread and pizza.  You may also try to find Bunge Pro Suprema Especial para Pizza, but this may prove more difficult.  It is usually found in the Makro or Sam's Club markets.

Abraço.

Offline kaka

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 11:02:11 AM »
I've just bought a organic and whole wheat flour with 12.5% protein

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: NY Style Pizza @ Brazil
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 05:50:01 PM »
I've just bought a organic and whole wheat flour with 12.5% protein


if it white whole wheat or just whole wheat? white wheat tends to be more of a finer ground, with no coarse chunks of wheat left in it. i like using white wheat because it adds a bit of depth to plain flour when used around 10-15% and most people won't notice it in flour based doughs and batters. things like cakes and some cookies though, you have to use the correct flour.

you can always sift the whole wheat to take out the larger coarse grindings. small tabletop flour mills can be obtained too if you wish
http://www.amazon.com/Wondermill-WonderMill-Grain-Mill/dp/B000CPJKWC/?tag=pizzamaking-20

sometimes you can obtain the grain several times cheaper than the flour, and if you are trying to do gluten free stuff a lot of the grains are that way from what i've researched in the past
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.


 

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