Author Topic: Belotti's Pies  (Read 698 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline belotj

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: New Jersey
  • I Love Pizza!
Belotti's Pies
« on: June 15, 2015, 11:24:12 AM »
My first post  ;D.  I have been making pizzas for a few years causally but this site has certainly peaked my interest so I decided to follow my pizza making more closely and talk about it here.  Traditionally I have been using this recipe subbing in 00 flour --> http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/001199.html

Tipo 00 Flour – 700 g + 85 g
Water (Tap) – 462 g
Fleischmanns Pizza Crust Yeast – 14 g
Kosher Salt – 15 g
EVOO – 18 g

Preparing the yeast:  Used ~ Ό cup of warm tap water and mixed in a teaspoon of white sugar.  Then mixed in the yeast and let rest for about 15 minutes.  The yeast was fully foamed in that time.

Preparing the flour:  Chilled the 700 g of flour in the fridge for about 30 mins and then sifted it into the Kitchen Aid mixing bowl.  Spread salt over the top and set the mixing bowl in the mixer stand. 

Kneading the dough: I used a Kitchen Aid stand mixer with the dough hook attached.   I set the mixer speed setting to 4 to combine the flour and salt.  I slowly added 90% the water.  Then I dumped in the yeast foam.  Then I poured in the EVOO and finally the remaining water.   The bowl and dough was wet so I added about 85 g more flour in total.  Speed setting was a little high so I reduced to 2.  Overall time in the mixer was about 3 minutes (2 minutes on setting 4 and 1 minute on setting 2).  The dough was tacky. 

Storing the dough: I rubbed a small amount evoo on the inside of a glass bowl and stored the entire dough ball in it.  The bowl was placed in the refrigerator at 9:30 pm with plastic wrap over the top.

Fermenting the dough:   After 12 hours in the refrigerator, the dough had risen above the rim of the glass bowl.  I removed it from the glass bowl and placed it in a larger plastic bowl and placed it back in the refrigerator with plastic wrap on top. After another 24 hours (36 hours total), the dough had about doubled in size.  At this point I balled the dough into approximately 425 g balls and stored back in the refrigerator.   9 hours later I took the dough balls out of the fridge and let rise on the counter for another 2-3 hours before cooking.

Preparing the sauce:  Used 1 can of organic La Valle Whole Peeled Plum Tomatoes (basil removed) and crushed them by hand.  Added approximately 1 tablespoon of salt.

Preparing the Mozzarella: Used 1.15 lbs. Fior di Latte fresh mozzarella.  I wrapped it in paper towels for about an hour to remove some moisture and then hand tore it before adding to the pizza.

Cooking the pies:  I preheated at 550 F for an hour with the stone in the oven.  Broiled the oven for about 5 minutes before putting the pizza in and then turned back to 550.  I actually take the stone out of the oven, build the pizza on it and then quickly put it back in the oven.  Time in the oven is about 10-11 mintues. 

The Pies:  The first pie was sauce, mozz, drizzle of evoo and some basil shreds.  The second pie was pepperoni, hot sopressata,  diced cherry tomatoes (from jar), sauce and mozz.  I use a layering technique with the meats.  I get them thin sliced from an Italian deli nearby and then I stack 4-5 pieces and then quarter them.   The result when cooked is some crispy and curled overcooked layers at the top and some more less cooked layers at the bottom.  Seems right to dub this pie “Heat Layers”.

Sorry for the long first post.  I have some questions.  While the pizza was delicious and everyone enjoyed it, I didn't intend for the bottom and crust to be so crisp.  How can I alter the recipe to get a softer final product?  Is it just a victim of oven temp and time? Also, the dough rose really fast and was easily torn when building the pie.  Is this an issue with too much yeast or poor kneading technique?

Thanks
Jeff


AWIP - Always a Work in Progress!


Online David Esq.

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 765
  • Location: New York
  • Making pizza since 2013
    • Eating With David
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 11:41:08 AM »
They look great!  Ever consider using my much less yeast?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15829
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2015, 11:49:21 AM »
Sorry for the long first post.  I have some questions.  While the pizza was delicious and everyone enjoyed it, I didn't intend for the bottom and crust to be so crisp.  How can I alter the recipe to get a softer final product?  Is it just a victim of oven temp and time? Also, the dough rose really fast and was easily torn when building the pie.  Is this an issue with too much yeast or poor kneading technique?

It's really tough to make a pizza with Neapolitan characteristics in a home oven without significant modifications. As you noted, the problem is insufficient heat. With a few ovens, this method works reasonably well:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11654.0
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10024.0

With respect to the fast rise, 1.8% is a lot of yeast. You could probably cut that back by 70-80% and have a slower, steady rise over the two days in the fridge.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline belotj

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: New Jersey
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 12:21:59 PM »
They look great!  Ever consider using my much less yeast?

Thanks! I guess I haphazardly saw someone using a 2% yeast rate and I chose it even though it was probably a completely different yeast.  It did seem like a lot when I was pouring it in the bowl compared to previous makes. 

It's really tough to make a pizza with Neapolitan characteristics in a home oven without significant modifications. As you noted, the problem is insufficient heat. With a few ovens, this method works reasonably well:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11654.0
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10024.0

With respect to the fast rise, 1.8% is a lot of yeast. You could probably cut that back by 70-80% and have a slower, steady rise over the two days in the fridge.

Thanks,  I will definitely cut it back.  The end result did have few similarities to a neapolitan style and certainly more new york in style. 

Any thoughts or good posts you can reference me to as to why my dough is so inelastic ?     
Jeff


AWIP - Always a Work in Progress!

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15829
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 01:38:16 PM »
Any thoughts or good posts you can reference me to as to why my dough is so inelastic ?   

With less yeast and a slower rise, the dough should be more extensible. Try for 12-24 hours of the rise in balls.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline belotj

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: New Jersey
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 03:15:29 PM »
I made another batch last week taking the advice previously provided as follows....

Tipo 00 Flour – 900 g
Water (Tap) – 558 g | 62%
Fleischmanns Pizza Crust Yeast – 6 g | 0.6 %
Kosher Salt – 13 g | 1.4%
EVOO – 18 g | 2%

I decreased the yeast content which definitely slowed my rise down.  I had a 3 day cold ferment 48 hours in bulk at fridge temp , 22 hours in balls at fridge temp and 2-3 hours at room temp.  I also increased my KA kneading time to 5 minutes.  Overall the results were better as far as a more extensible dough and slower ferment. 

I had different issue arise in that my dough balls which were left on the counter, open air for 2-3 hours at room temp developed a harder outer shell.  To recover I tried to re-kneed the dough to dissipate the hardness but it did not work as you can from the pics of the bottom crust and the outer crumb.  The cooked pizza dough had a cracking effect which I did not intend for or particularly like.  I tried to search for this issue but it proved to be a hard topic to search for (no pun intended  :P)....thoughts?





Jeff


AWIP - Always a Work in Progress!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23361
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 05:29:01 PM »
Jeff,

The yeast you are using is a specialized yeast product. From what I recall, it is not a direct substitute for ordinary dry yeast. I also believe that it may be intended for a short duration dough used at room temperature, not for cold fermentation. If you do a forum search using the terms pizza crust yeast, with and without the term Fleischmann's, you should find several posts on the subject.

Peter

Online HBolte

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Location: Clarkston, MI
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 05:35:21 PM »
Give SAF Instant Dry Yeast a try.

Keep your dough covered when letting them come up to room temp. You can use a sheet of plastic wrap or just leave them in the container that you used in the refrigerator to prevent them from drying.
Hans

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 508
  • Location: New Jersey
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 06:34:12 PM »
Jeff, the SAF is great stuff...and one package  is enough so that you'll be passing it down to your grandchildren. :-D

As per my usual well-earned disclaimer, I'm sure no expert in this stuff..but I've  made pies softer than I want...they might be just your ticket. A steel plate..I've had good results with 1/4 as well as 1/2, about 8 inches down from broiler in gas oven maxed at setting of 550.

After preheating 45-60 minutes (longer with 1/2 inch, try 75) I run the broiler for 5-10 minutes. For a soft pie like you're speaking of, I'd suggest launching with broiler on and leaving it on..Your steel temp willl likelty be in 620-ish range. I have to keep an eye on the pie when I do these, because I'm coming in right around 3 or 3 1/2 minutes...been a while since I've done this becuase I usually  prefer the crispier bakes...but with the steel, those bakes are more like 6 or 7   than 10. That alone might help. I'm a big fan of steel..I started with a standard inexpensive stone from Bed Bath and Beyond,. Could never get results I wanted...bottom never nicely browned. Luckily it broke,  ;)  Bought the steel and the game changed completely.


Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3671
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 07:55:03 PM »

Keep your dough covered when letting them come up to room temp. You can use a sheet of plastic wrap...

Using plastic wrap to cover the dough when it comes up to room temp is a bad idea. The warmer the dough gets, the more it will stick to the wrap making it almost impossible to remove without severely tearing into the dough itself.

I'd use a damp kitchen towel as a cover or, like Hans suggested, leave them in the containers.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Online David Esq.

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 765
  • Location: New York
  • Making pizza since 2013
    • Eating With David
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2015, 09:27:34 PM »
Clear plastic bag. Slip the tray in bag, fill with air and twist closed and slide under cookie sheet/tray and you are good to go.

Offline belotj

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: New Jersey
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Belotti's Pies
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2015, 12:27:43 PM »
Jeff,

The yeast you are using is a specialized yeast product. From what I recall, it is not a direct substitute for ordinary dry yeast. I also believe that it may be intended for a short duration dough used at room temperature, not for cold fermentation. If you do a forum search using the terms pizza crust yeast, with and without the term Fleischmann's, you should find several posts on the subject.

Peter

Thank you for the recommendation. I already did some reading and came across your discussion with Norma about this particular yeast and L-Cysteine as an ingredient.  This must be the main culprit of my faster than usual rise times and the reason you suggest that it is not appropriate for a cold fermentation.

I will buy and try the SAF yeast as others here have recommended for my next make.

The baking steel sounds very interesting and I would like to go that route when I can.  For now I will try the bake and broil method with my existing 1/2" stone that you described, Jersey Pie Boy.  Btw, where in NJ are you located?

I learned the hard way about the plastic wrap and it is probably why I left the dough in the open air this time around.   I need to use better storage and take the advice decribed here.

Thanks for all of the recommendations and stay tuned.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 12:40:45 PM by belotj »
Jeff


AWIP - Always a Work in Progress!


 

pizzapan