Author Topic: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment  (Read 831 times)

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Offline JBizzeria

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Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« on: July 17, 2013, 05:05:24 PM »
Seems some days I get it right and some days I don't!  I am having trouble getting my dough consistent!  I use this recipe
 High-gluten flour, 11.80 oz. (about 2 1/2 c.)
       Water, 7.70 oz. (about 1 c.) (about 65% hydration)
       IDY, 0.20 oz. (1 1/2 t.) [Edit: See Note below]
       Salt, 0.20 oz. (3/4 t.)
       Olive oil (light), 0.12 oz. (3/4 t.)
       Thickness factor (TF) = 0.10
Seems like I can't even toss this pizza because it is to soft at times.  I usually have to spread it out on the counter then put it on the peel and if it is to soft it will burn in  my pizza kettle before it gets solid enough to turn.  My stone are around 650 at times sometimes 700.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
JB


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 05:11:34 PM »
JB,

I suggest that you drop the hydration to something in the range of 58-63%. You might start at the lower end of the range and increase the hydration as you gain experience.

Peter

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 05:19:04 PM »
Most people on here don't have a dough that is good for tossing. Mine is too soft for tossing too. But I can pick it up to open the dough. A dough that is over-fermented will often be to slack and sticky to work with. I wonder if this is your problem.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 06:49:13 PM »
The bouncer flour I am using right now gets sticky at 60% if u can believe it.  All trumps is bone dry at 60.  Lol
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 07:44:25 PM »
JB, I see that you listed several measurement methods in your dough formulation. Which method do you use? Inconsistency can come from a dough ball made with different amounts of ingredients or different environmental factors, IE room temp, ferment container temp and room air moisture content.
Since you "get it right" some days I would lean toward some change in either ingredient amounts or the process, or the environment.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline waltertore

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 08:30:14 PM »
lots of factors mentioned already and here are some more things like - water temp, do you let it rise same day as bake, is  your dough overproofing, do you put it immediately in the fridge (if so how quick) and I see you are living down south.  The humidity levels there get high and all this stuff can  have a big impact on you.   I have worked in bakeries in Austin Texas where the temps got up to 120 degrees in our work place.   We used a lot of ice water added to our bread dough and bowls of ice that we put another bowl of icing on top of for doing cakes to keep the icing from melting.  A wedding cake could take a couple days to do in those conditions.  You would do a bit and then put it in the walk in, let it harden up and go for it again.   In pizzerias I have worked in similar scenario.   Today I made a bunch of dough balls for an event Sunday.  The water out of the tap in my high school classroom ( a commercial bakery/pizzeria) was darn near hot. The a/c is not on in our school because of summer vacation and it was about 90 degrees and humid and the water was closer to that temp than not.  The water comes from about 200 yards away(pipes are in the walls above ground) and even after letting it run for quite a while it still was very warm. I had to put ice in the water before mixing and made the dough quite cold because I was making 50 balls on my own.  So, it looks like you need to define your set up to all of us better and go from there.  Walter

http://www.newarkcityschools.org/content_page2.aspx?cid=1032
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 08:42:50 PM by waltertore »
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Offline JBizzeria

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 11:50:00 AM »
lots of factors mentioned already and here are some more things like - water temp, do you let it rise same day as bake, is  your dough overproofing, do you put it immediately in the fridge (if so how quick) and I see you are living down south.  The humidity levels there get high and all this stuff can  have a big impact on you.   I have worked in bakeries in Austin Texas where the temps got up to 120 degrees in our work place.   We used a lot of ice water added to our bread dough and bowls of ice that we put another bowl of icing on top of for doing cakes to keep the icing from melting.  A wedding cake could take a couple days to do in those conditions.  You would do a bit and then put it in the walk in, let it harden up and go for it again.   In pizzerias I have worked in similar scenario.   Today I made a bunch of dough balls for an event Sunday.  The water out of the tap in my high school classroom ( a commercial bakery/pizzeria) was darn near hot. The a/c is not on in our school because of summer vacation and it was about 90 degrees and humid and the water was closer to that temp than not.  The water comes from about 200 yards away(pipes are in the walls above ground) and even after letting it run for quite a while it still was very warm. I had to put ice in the water before mixing and made the dough quite cold because I was making 50 balls on my own.  So, it looks like you need to define your set up to all of us better and go from there.  Walter

http://www.newarkcityschools.org/content_page2.aspx?cid=1032
[/quote
 High-gluten flour, KA (about 2 1/2 c.)
       Water. (about 1 c.) (about 65% hydration)
       ADY, (1 1/2 t.)
       Salt,  (3/4 t.)
       Olive oil (light), (3/4 t.)
That is might recipe there. 
It goes into the fridge about 5 min after I make it.  The water is about 104 and I let it sit in the ADY for about 10 min to bloom.  After that all dry ingredients go into the Kitchen Aide Mixer and come together for about 3-4 min.  I then take it out and kneed it on the counter top for about 4 min.  Then Olive oil in the container so it doesn't stick real lightly.  After that it sit in fridge for up to 24- 72 or this last dough for week but stuck together and I could not do anything with it.

Thanks again for the help everyone!
     

Offline JD

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2013, 01:07:54 PM »
The bouncer flour I am using right now gets sticky at 60% if u can believe it.  All trumps is bone dry at 60.  Lol

+1. Do you use the same flour every time?

This to me is probably one of the most significant realizations I've had on this board. I used the same recipe for two dough balls, but different flour. One had all trumps bromated, the other had KABF. I'd say there was around a 4% difference of actual water absorption. What I mean by that is if my recipe was for 60% hydration, the all trumps actually felt like I used 56% and the KABF felt normal at 60%

4% sounds small but it's a big difference in feel. If I used 65% for KABF, it would be really tough for me to work with

Josh

Offline waltertore

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 01:45:36 PM »
104 degrees is way too hot.  Your dough reached its peak before you got to use it. For a 72 hour cold ferment I make my water cool. I don't take temp readings. I have been professionally making  pizza and breads on and off for 40 years so my hand tells me how hot/cold the water should be.  This is all in relation to when I want it ready, the temp of my room, the humidity.  I would imagine it is around 65-70 degrees for a 1-3 day cold ferment for a home setting.   The other day I made 50 dough balls for an event Sunday. My commercial kitchen is in a public high school and the a/c was off.  The room was close to 90 and very humid.  The tap water was way warm.  I had to use ice cubes to chill it and bet the temp was 60-65 degrees so as to keep the dough from rising on the bench as I balled it. Walter
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 01:51:53 PM by waltertore »
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Offline JBizzeria

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 02:57:29 PM »
Thanks Walter, what about if I was going to use it the next day?  Still cold fermentation though..


Offline waltertore

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Re: Pizza Dough Either to sticky after cold ferment
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2013, 03:54:11 PM »
Thanks Walter, what about if I was going to use it the next day?  Still cold fermentation though..

you are welcome.  For using it the next day use the cold ferment.  You might want your water a bit warmer to around 75 degrees or so for a 24 hour sit and a bit cooler for a 3 day.  Good luck!  Walter
The Smiling With Hope Bakery- A bakery with a purpose
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20140124/NEWS01/301240031/Bakery-run-by-students-disabilities-earns-pizza-profile

Spontobeat- the spontaneous music concept I have created and how I spontaneously live my life   http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=157137 200 of my most current songs http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=157137&content=widgets