Author Topic: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck  (Read 904 times)

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Offline sub

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2014, 10:29:15 AM »
Hi Sub,
thank you for the link.
Since we will pass that place I will check them out on my drive to Neaples.
Cheers, Detlef.


You're welcome !

The manufacturers are all nearby the furnace (except Aversa)

La Fornace Sorbo Antonio
Via Appia Antica n10, Casapulla (CE)
Cell 338 9727710

Antonio Mastroianni
Via Bande di Caturano 81020 Casapulla(Ce)
mastroianniformas@libero.it

Fornace Saputo
Via Appia Antica n.12, Casapulla


Hi Stonecutter,
I actually meant the hight of the biscotti itself. Is it 4cm or 5cm?
Cheers, Detlef.


The biscotto thickness from Aversa is 45mm.


Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2014, 10:51:01 AM »
You're welcome !

The manufacturers are all nearby the furnace (except Aversa)

La Fornace Sorbo Antonio
Via Appia Antica n10, Casapulla (CE)
Cell 338 9727710

Antonio Mastroianni
Via Bande di Caturano 81020 Casapulla(Ce)
mastroianniformas@libero.it

Fornace Saputo
Via Appia Antica n.12, Casapulla


The biscotto thickness from Aversa is 45mm.


Hi Sub,
thank you so much for the info. This helps me a lot!
Would you happen to know any price quote for a 90cm/4.5cm floor (4 biscotti)?
Cheers, Detlef.

Offline sub

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2014, 11:00:59 AM »
Fornace Caputo 80cm 80€ 
80cm from Aversa between 120/130€
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 11:03:17 AM by sub »

Offline sub

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2014, 11:02:03 AM »
A built thread with materials from Casapulla furnace: costruzione FAL napoletano a coccinella

Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2014, 07:54:44 AM »
Hello everyone,
the next three days I have planned to do some metal works. A friend is gonna help me with getting the oven mouth together.
It's a 600mm x 450mm metal plate (12mm thick) in which we will cut the mouth, a half circle with a 230mm radius.

I have also decided to reduce my oven diameter by 10cm down to 80cm for the following reasons:

1. It seems that the biscotti di Sorrento come in 40cm or 50cm radius.
2. The oven mass gets reduced so the heat-up time will be quicker.
3. I will have more space for insulation.

For the next weekend a have planned a couple of things:

1. Watch the finals in the soccer world champion ship with maybe one or two cold beers.
2. Move my oven slap to it's final place with the help of a forklift truck but with a reduce hight so building the oven will be in a friendly working altitude. When the oven is ready the whole thing has just to be lifted up and not moved horizontally.
3. Put the Perlite/cement insulation layer onto the slap and layout the ceramic fiber boards.
4. Cut some bricks.

??? So for cutting the sailors I could use some advice:
What would be the right angle to cut the top corner of the bricks? My oven has a diameter of 80cm and a low vault of 36cm.
The sailors will not stand on the biscotti (4,5cm thick) and have a hight of 25cm. ???

Attached you can see me trying out a layout with my ceramic fiber boards.



« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 08:04:36 AM by Protoolskaiser »

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2014, 08:25:39 AM »
I don't know what would be the *right* angle, but here's what I did:

I figured the angle would depend on the curve of the dome, so on a 1:1 scale I drew the section of the oven on a wood board, and then placed the bricks and it just kind of became obvious at what angle they should be cut.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2014, 08:33:35 AM »
I don't know what would be the *right* angle, but here's what I did:

I figured the angle would depend on the curve of the dome, so on a 1:1 scale I drew the section of the oven on a wood board, and then placed the bricks and it just kind of became obvious at what angle they should be cut.

This would be the best way to do it because you have to draw your dome shape ( arch ) and you can cut your springer (the angled brick off which the arch 'springs') to the exact angle.

FYI,  the way you have oriented your brick is called soldiers, not sailors.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis

Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2014, 06:20:52 AM »
This would be the best way to do it because you have to draw your dome shape ( arch ) and you can cut your springer (the angled brick off which the arch 'springs') to the exact angle.

FYI,  the way you have oriented your brick is called soldiers, not sailors.

Hello Christian and stonecutter,

I think I will go that way.
One thing I am thinking about is to replace the Perlite/Cement insulation layer under the ceramic fiber board with these YTong bricks/plates.
Any opinions for that?
Cheers, Detlef.

P.S.: I know....they are soldiers and not sailors!

Offline stonecutter

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2014, 07:02:33 AM »

One thing I am thinking about is to replace the Perlite/Cement insulation layer under the ceramic fiber board with these YTong bricks/plates.


I think it's a lateral move.  In fact, I feel perlcrete is better in this application (insulating slab) than AAC.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2014, 08:19:07 AM »
I used Ytong under the fiber board, mainly because it was cheap, easy and fast, a rare combination  ;D

I don't know if Ytong is better than perlite, but I didn't think it would matter much. The Promasil board I used is for insulating furnaces and is for applications up to 1100 celcius, so I figured (or rather, I hope) it doesn't get very hot on the underside and as such does the lion's share of the insulating.



Offline stonecutter

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2014, 08:36:28 AM »
To be clear, I mean it's a lateral move since you already have a perlcrete slab, and AAC doesn't have a enough of an advantage ( insulating wise) to remove the perlcrete.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis

Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2014, 03:04:18 AM »
To be clear, I mean it's a lateral move since you already have a perlcrete slab, and AAC doesn't have a enough of an advantage ( insulating wise) to remove the perlcrete.

Hi stonecutter,
just to get this right: AAC = YTONG?

It was probably my mistake but my slab is not a perlcrete slab. I was wondering if I can use these YTong plates instead of an perlcrete insulation layer? Since YTong is very cheap, very fast and easy to work with (a rare combination - as Christian has mentioned before) I wouldn't have to deal with the Perlite/cement/water stuff.
So my layers would be:

1. 10cm concrete slab
2. 5cm YTong plates
3. 5cm ceramic fiber board
4. 4,5cm biscotti di Sorrento (hopefully)

Cheers, Detlef.

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2014, 03:27:33 AM »
If you really want to be on the safe side, just use 2 layers of fiber board, mine only cost 50 eurs.
I frankly wonder why it isn't done more, than you can just put it on any slab.

Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2014, 04:01:32 AM »
If you really want to be on the safe side, just use 2 layers of fiber board, mine only cost 50 eurs.
I frankly wonder why it isn't done more, than you can just put it on any slab.

Hi Christian,
I think even one layer of 5cm ceramic fiber board would be okay. They are a bit more expensive here in Germany. I paid about a 100,-€ for them.
Cheers, Detlef.

Offline sub

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2014, 05:12:22 AM »
When I was doing research on rocket stoves, I've read  the Ytong blocks degrades quickly with high heat:

What kills ytong?

So it's maybe not the best material for the job, what do you think ?

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2014, 08:46:36 AM »
Hi Christian,
I think even one layer of 5cm ceramic fiber board would be okay.

I think so too, but as it seems you're worrying about what to use underneath, it would take that worry away.

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2014, 08:52:12 AM »
When I was doing research on rocket stoves, I've read  the Ytong blocks degrades quickly with high heat:

What kills ytong?

So it's maybe not the best material for the job, what do you think ?


But they seem to be using it to build a furnace and maybe line it with bricks. As an insulation layer on a slab, with a fiber board between it and the bricks, laying horizontally, I think it will hold up just fine.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2014, 08:54:14 AM »
When I was doing research on rocket stoves, I've read  the Ytong blocks degrades quickly with high heat:

What kills ytong?

So it's maybe not the best material for the job, what do you think ?


There isn't any refractory material in it, so to me , it's not suitable in an oven application when it's in contact with heat. Under insulation, that's another story.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis

Offline stonecutter

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    • Old World Stone & Garden
Re: New Neapoltan WFO Build in Luebeck
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2014, 09:03:24 AM »
Hi stonecutter,
just to get this right: AAC = YTONG?

It was probably my mistake but my slab is not a perlcrete slab. I was wondering if I can use these YTong plates instead of an perlcrete insulation layer? Since YTong is very cheap, very fast and easy to work with (a rare combination - as Christian has mentioned before) I wouldn't have to deal with the Perlite/cement/water stuff.
So my layers would be:

1. 10cm concrete slab
2. 5cm YTong plates
3. 5cm ceramic fiber board
4. 4,5cm biscotti di Sorrento (hopefully)

Cheers, Detlef.

AAC = Autoclaved Aerated Concrete.  YTong is a manufacturer.

  5cm of insulation is decent, but if it was me I would just add another layer of CFB. 
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis

Offline Protoolskaiser

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my cuts
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2014, 07:42:22 AM »
Hello everyone,
the last weekend I have borrowed a brick saw and cut some bricks.
Soldiers and the ones for the dome.
Now we are getting ready for our trip to Italy. Hopefully I will find some nice biscotti di Sorrento!
See you all in four weeks. Cheers, Detlef.