Author Topic: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -  (Read 21134 times)

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Offline sub

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2013, 09:52:20 AM »
Hi Marco,

Thank you for  your contribution,

Finally, please note that by direct observation, owner comments, and most importantly suppliers direct info, many of these people above do not use the Biscotto di Sorrento (used at Forno Napoletano) which cost 8 times more of the cheaper alternatives, and does indeed have unique properties, however is produced in such low quantities and with Long ead times that is impossible to produce hundreds of ovens in a year or two.

Do you know witch brands sells cheaper ones ?
Maybe it's a good alternative for us,  the poor fagilia show us that refractory bricks is not a good floor material for a low dome oven.


I've found new pictures, but a lot in miniature size  :-\
 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 10:16:01 AM by sub »


Offline sub

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2013, 11:02:40 AM »
Mapa gloves man


Offline meatboy

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2013, 09:08:12 AM »
thank you so much sub - this thread is absolutely awesome!

Offline sub

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2013, 05:15:03 PM »
Thanks meatboy,

Few more from Strazzullo Michele


The original oven at Pizzeria Lievito Madre a Mare was a Stefano Ferrara mobile, but It was not able to withstand the quantities required so Gino Sorbillo remplace it with a fixed Strazzullo Michele.

source:
Solo Gino puņ battere Sorbillo. Pizzeria Lievito Madre a Mare, per esempio
Cosa imparo dal ministro Nunzia De Girolamo, esclusa la Septemberfest

So pizzanapoletana was right...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 02:37:50 PM by sub »

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2013, 11:49:51 AM »
Enjoying these build pictures, thanks for posting them.  You don't usually see the construction process of these ovens documented with pictures much...at least, I haven't seen many of them.    I'm not a fan of the final finish though, because to me, they look like upside down toilets.   
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 11:52:23 AM by stonecutter »
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
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Offline sub

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2013, 02:47:11 PM »
Thanks stonecutter,


Few pictures from Artistica Salernitana

I think it's the cheapest brand but not the most traditional.


Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2013, 05:04:43 PM »
That is some rough looking brick work.
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #87 on: September 13, 2013, 12:14:29 AM »
What is the dome looking thing in the third picture? Never mind, I see it is the form. Is it in pieces? How do they get it out?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #88 on: September 13, 2013, 05:55:03 AM »
The form appears to be segmented, there are lines running across the top and down the sides.   That or maybe they just break it out....if it is thin terracotta then it would come apart easily.
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #89 on: September 13, 2013, 10:14:55 AM »
Witht the scuffs, scratches and different colored marks, It has the appearance of something that has been used many times.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #90 on: September 13, 2013, 10:31:20 AM »
That is what I was going to say.  It looks well used.  All these guys do rough brickwork, because that is all that is required.  They are oven-builders, not masons.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #91 on: September 13, 2013, 10:40:36 AM »
You're right, I was focused on the lines and didn't pay attention to the old mortar on the form...it has clear evidence of an earlier build.  My guess would be that there is a small middle section that gets removed first, then the two remaining pieces can be slid towards each other and down for removal.
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
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Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #92 on: September 15, 2013, 09:15:45 PM »
.....  All these guys do rough brickwork, because that is all that is required.  They are oven-builders, not masons.

That is understood.

 But for me,  the beauty and craftsmanship of an oven is just as important as to how it functions.   And, being a mason  (as you probably know) doesn't necessarily mean you are able to build a well crafted oven.
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #93 on: September 15, 2013, 10:01:20 PM »
I think everyone would agree that it would be great to have both quality workmanship and a well functioning oven, but when it comes down to it for commercial purposes a properly functioning oven will always win.

Problem is there aren't any ovens on the market that have both.  There isn't an oven on the market that has a proper dome shape and size, proper door shape and size, and proper floor material that isn't built in Naples.  And we've all seen the way they build them in Naples.  They will tell you that they build them this way so the entire oven drys at the same time, and that may be the historical reason.  Now days nobody else builds ovens like this, and nobody worries about the oven drying together, and there are no issues with it.
-Jeff

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2013, 10:05:35 PM »
That is exactly true.  Obviously, I am able to tell from an order what is being planned, and that is often how I am able to prevent a Horno from being built instead of what the customer actually wants, which is a pizza/baking oven.

Masons can not, by dint of their trade, build an oven, it takes a specialized knowledge.  Even masons versed in fireplaces do not have an inherent ability to build an oven without specific direction and plans.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2013, 11:51:59 PM »
I think everyone would agree that it would be great to have both quality workmanship and a well functioning oven, but when it comes down to it for commercial purposes a properly functioning oven will always win.
  The later part is obvious,  because  a good looking oven that doesn't function correctly is useless.  But achieving both is my ideology as it relates to masonry construction, including oven building.  Unrealistic to have both for a commercial oven, maybe.   

Again, only my opinion. 

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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
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Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2013, 11:57:44 PM »


Masons can not, by dint of their trade, build an oven, it takes a specialized knowledge.  Even masons versed in fireplaces do not have an inherent ability to build an oven without specific direction and plans.

Which is proved over and over by many capable folks that are building ovens, who have never laid a brick in their life.  From researching, to planning, building and finishing.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Online scott123

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #97 on: September 16, 2013, 01:28:32 AM »
Considering the reputation that Italians have built for themselves, over centuries, as being some of the world's best masons, I find it especially painful to see Italian oven builders slapping these ovens together.

Could part of this carelessness be job security?  If you make an oven that lasts centuries, you won't be making the next one, whereas if it lasts 5-10 years, perhaps you'll be the guy they hire to fix and/or replace it.

Btw, while I think, right now, finding great craftsmanship with proper function is a bit of a pipe dream, I continue to believe that this guy shows some promise:

http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/pizza_bread_ovens.html
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 01:31:21 AM by scott123 »

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #98 on: September 16, 2013, 07:57:49 AM »


Could part of this carelessness be job security?  If you make an oven that lasts centuries, you won't be making the next one, whereas if it lasts 5-10 years, perhaps you'll be the guy they hire to fix and/or replace it.

I'm not so sure about this, as a reputation for faulty work will eventually catch up to you...I have knew a few masons that thought like that, and once they were known for shoddy work,  projects dried up for them.   But the way a lot of guys slap things together sometimes, you have to wonder if that is their business plan.

Given the reputation of these oven builders, it is apparent that the quality and function are not an issue at all.
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Offline fagilia

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2013, 03:15:56 AM »
Me i had some problems finding the screen tile or what you call it in English that seem to be used of all over the vent area and sometimes around the dome.
I solved it with thin leca blocks but here is a link to the real stuff. Actually this gave me more problems than one can Think.
One small piece of the build of neapolitan oven at least :)
http://www.wienerberger.de/fassadenloesungen/argeton/produktkatalog/danza


 

pizzapan