Author Topic: Blackstone vs 2 Stone  (Read 4105 times)

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Offline mkevenson

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Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« on: July 20, 2013, 06:37:15 PM »
I did a search but didn't hit. I use the 2Stone and it seems from what I can tell to be pretty similar to the Blackstone oven. I am always interested in mods to help me get the results I want. Anyone have an opinion on the similarities or differences these two ovens share. I power my 2Stone with a 60K BTU burner.
 
Mark
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 06:41:02 PM by mkevenson »
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 11:26:10 AM »
Mark,  what kind of pizza do you want to make and are you interested in modding your 2stone if need be?   To do an in depth
comparison of the two, we need pictures.  Lots of them.

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 11:54:33 AM »
Chau, I have had my 2 Stone for over a year. I am currently using black iron spacers under the bottom stone to create an air gap. I have replaced the top stone with a black soapstone in hopes of increasing top heat.
I have many pics on this site, I will research and try to bring them forward. I found some recent ones. Not all my pies turn out "this good". I really don't know what style they are.
My 2Stone is the 16" grill SS model seen here:


http://2stoneblog.com/category/ovens/


I purchased the 2Stone with the idea that I could bake pies at or near 900F if wanted. I have been able to achieve those heats but due to excessive charing on the bottom I usually bake at around 650-700F measured on the bottom stone.


(http://2stoneblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/20121102-211445.jpg?w=908)




Mark
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2013, 12:04:48 PM »
Have you had excessive charring since using spacers under the bottom stone? How thick or thin are these black iron spacers?
Are you getting the top coloration you want with the soapstone?

So how fast do you want to bake a pie and do it evenly?  That will determine what style you want.   Do you just want to know if the 2stone can do NP if you want it to?   If so then the answer is yes but you need a ceiling flame deflector similar to the one I made for my blackstone. 

Can I get some photos of the lid propped open with and without the top stone? I want to see how the top stone is secured under the lid.

Also, where does the flame come up?  Directly towards the back or towards the right side like in the BS?  How much of the flame hits the bottom plate versus wrapping up the side of the stone?

Chau
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 12:07:57 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline parallei

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 12:06:25 PM »
Mark,

Is there a way to distribute the top vs bottom heat (location of flame) the way you have your set up?

Is the burner centered in a stationary manner smack dab under the stone?

Paul
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 12:10:31 PM by parallei »

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2013, 01:56:54 PM »
Have you had excessive charring since using spacers under the bottom stone? How thick or thin are these black iron spacers?
Are you getting the top coloration you want with the soapstone?

So how fast do you want to bake a pie and do it evenly?  That will determine what style you want.   Do you just want to know if the 2stone can do NP if you want it to?   If so then the answer is yes but you need a ceiling flame deflector similar to the one I made for my blackstone. 

Can I get some photos of the lid propped open with and without the top stone? I want to see how the top stone is secured under the lid.

Also, where does the flame come up?  Directly towards the back or towards the right side like in the BS?  How much of the flame hits the bottom plate versus wrapping up the side of the stone?

Chau

Chau, I am at work today, alas. I will take new pics tonight. The flame of my burner is at the back of the bottom stone alowing the flame to come up and over the bottom stone. Willard has designed the housing with a curved deflector to direct the heat to the top stone and over the pie.
The overcharing is less with the spacers (I will measure thickness later) but not gone. The soapstone, I believe has helped with evening out or increasing the top heat, but probably could be better. Interestingly, the black soap stone has turned more white where the flame hits it.

Mark
I am not dedicated to cooking at 900+ F temps but would like to on occasion.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2013, 02:15:49 PM »
Looking foward to the pics Mark.  I am curious if know if the 2stone uses a heat shield as the BS does.  It may very well be that the BS is a complete rip off of the 2stone, especially in the case of the inferno.  Can a inferno owner post up some pics? 

If you want to bake at 900F, it should be very doable.  You may need to increase the existing gap between the bottom stone and plate and then simply (better) direct the heat coming up from the back and onto the rim itself.  I have done this in my LBE and now BS and it works well.   

Mark, does your particular model have the rotisserie motor included or do you turn the stone manually?

Chau

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2013, 02:21:08 PM »


   

Mark, does your particular model have the rotisserie motor included or do you turn the stone manually?


Chau

Manual rotation.

Mark
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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2013, 04:30:04 PM »
1

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2013, 08:55:37 PM »
Chau, I took some new picks. My 2 Stone sits on a camp stove with rails to position the oven over the burner but forward. I also use SS to frame the flame . the soapstone was black but has turned white where the flame is concentrated. I think that I will put the original stone back in since I have pretty much lost the black advantage. I took some pics of the flame coming over the stone tray. Hard to see but I did show the gap.
Oh cause these pics are boring I added a couple from Lake Tahoe and A bird I was stalking.


Mark
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2013, 08:57:38 PM »
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2013, 09:05:43 PM »
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 12:02:43 PM »
Mark, thanks for the photos of the oven and the scenic pics!

Some thoughts....

I don't think you need to switch out the soapstone as I don't think it really matters what material of stone you use up there.  It can be steel and it would work just as well I think. 

How wide is the gap from the back of the oven to the steel plate?  The gap that the flame travels up before hitting the ceiling. 

I do see that there is some sort of baffle/heat deflector to send the heat up towards the ceiling but IMO, this piece has to extend a bit further and then curl back towards itself to some degree.  This will help concentrate the flame back towards the crust.   This is a very simple concept.  I've used it with much success in the BS oven and my LBE.   I can dig up and post the links if you want. 

Goals to achieve towards a NP bake in your oven:
1) achieve top and browning in this oven at lower temp bakes (3-5 min bakes) with ceiling heat/flame deflector mod.
2)  Achieve desire top browning in 60 sec by adjusting size of flame.  Take note of hearth temp.
3) match bottom browning by adjusting the size of gap between the bottom stone and plate.

Chau
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 12:11:36 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 12:10:57 PM »
Can any member with the inferno post some pics of the insides like Mark has done.  I'd like to see the comparison of the Inferno with the BS oven. 

Thanks,
Chau

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2013, 04:31:53 PM »
Mark, thanks for the photos of the oven and the scenic pics!

Some thoughts....



How wide is the gap from the back of the oven to the steel plate?  The gap that the flame travels up before hitting the ceiling. 

I can dig up and post the links if you want. 

Goals to achieve towards a NP bake in your oven:
1) achieve top and browning in this oven at lower temp bakes (3-5 min bakes) with ceiling heat/flame deflector mod.
2)  Achieve desire top browning in 60 sec by adjusting size of flame.  Take note of hearth temp.
3) match bottom browning by adjusting the size of gap between the bottom stone and plate.

Chau


Chau, the gap is 23mm. This is totally adjustable. The spacers under the bottom stone are 3mm. I would be grateful for you to provide me with whatever mods you think will improve this stove.
Thanks for taking the time and interest.

Mark
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Offline parallei

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2013, 06:23:38 PM »
Can any member with the inferno post some pics of the insides like Mark has done.  I'd like to see the comparison of the Inferno with the BS oven. 

Thanks,
Chau

Hi Chau,

No photo's, but I think I can describe it well enough.  Mine is a 2Stone Pro.  Same guts as an Inferno, but on wheels. You can see it at Willard's site.  Not sure what you are calling a heat shield.

My 2Stone has a deflector with a radius like the one shown in Mark's  "2 Stone 005.JPG" photo. The gap between the edge of the bottom stone and the bottom of the deflector is about 2-inches minimum.  Obviously, the gap is greater as you move from the 12 o'clock (in plan view) along the diameter of the stone. 

The unit's burner location (once again think plan view) can be moved from near the center of the stone out along the stone's radius to the gap between the stone and the back deflector.  So, for any given gas flow, you can get from about nothing to a good amount moving up the back and up the deflector.  With the gas going full bore, and the burner shoved all the way to the back, the flame extends a bit more than 1/2 the way over the top of the stone.  There seems to be enough turbulence to send the flame down a bit.  It is possible to burn cheese.

The bottom stone is 1-inch fibrament.  The bottom stone's support is dish shaped so it has a "built-in" air gap of about 1.5 inches at the center. The top stone is 1/2-inch fribrament + an aluminum sheet + 1/2-inch fribrament + aluminum cover.

Hope this helps!

Paul

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2013, 09:30:17 AM »
Not sure what you are calling a heat shield.

I was referencing the heat shield from the BS oven.  #11 from the parts list.  It's a cone shaped piece of sheet metal that wraps around the stone, channeling and concentrating the heat and flame.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg264533.html#msg264533
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg261251.html#msg261251

My 2Stone has a deflector with a radius like the one shown in Mark's  "2 Stone 005.JPG" photo. The gap between the edge of the bottom stone and the bottom of the deflector is about 2-inches minimum.

Yes, this would be the equivalent of the BS's heat shield.  Thank you this is helpful.  What is the maximum gap if the stone extend's outward away from the oven and towards the operator?  I am assuming in this position more of the flame is travelling up the back of the oven and less towards the bottom of the steel plate correct?

With the gas going full bore, and the burner shoved all the way to the back, the flame extends a bit more than 1/2 the way over the top of the stone.  There seems to be enough turbulence to send the flame down a bit.  It is possible to burn cheese.

Yes also very helpful.  The question I have here is that when the flame is going full bore, and the cheese burns, does the crust also burned?  Is the crust potentially receiving less heat in this scenario? 

This seems to happen in my unmodified BS oven.  When I go full bore, The flame comes up the side of the stone, hits the ceiling travels a short distance, and is directed down onto the center of the pie.  The flame arcs and seemingly produces a cooler zone in the center of the arc, where the crust lives.  You get too much heat to the center of the pie burning the cheese, while the crust browns but not as quick as the cheese center. 

This is the only example I could find in a hurry.  I'm sure there are others. 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg261165.html#msg261165

The bottom stone's support is dish shaped so it has a "built-in" air gap of about 1.5 inches at the center.

Mark, can you confirm that this is the same setup in your 2stone pizza grill?  Since we are talking about 2 different models here,  I am trying to determing if the the guts of the 2stone pizza grill is the same as the inferno.

the gap is 23mm. This is totally adjustable.

Mark I have that at 0.9 inch.  Is this minimum or maximum?  Is this different from Paul's 2" gap? 

Chau



 



« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 09:32:42 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2013, 12:48:33 PM »
Chau, the gap between the edge of the bottom stone and the base of the deflector is 23mm, It is not adjustable as I had previously said. I was thinking of the flame,burner, adjustment.
The metal dish the bottom stone sits on is concave, I have never measured the distance from the bottom of the stone to the bottom of the dish, (hard to get my fingers in there when the stone is in place :-D ) I will measure tonight, whatever the distance, I assume all model of the 2 Stone are =, my 3mm nuts will be added to that distance.


Mark
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Offline parallei

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2013, 02:12:49 PM »
Not sure what you are calling a heat shield.

I was referencing the heat shield from the BS oven.  #11 from the parts list.  It's a cone shaped piece of sheet metal that wraps around the stone, channeling and concentrating the heat and flame.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg264533.html#msg264533
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg261251.html#msg261251

My 2Stone has a deflector with a radius like the one shown in Mark's  "2 Stone 005.JPG" photo. The gap between the edge of the bottom stone and the bottom of the deflector is about 2-inches minimum.

Yes, this would be the equivalent of the BS's heat shield.  Thank you this is helpful.  What is the maximum gap if the stone extend's outward away from the oven and towards the operator?  I am assuming in this position more of the flame is travelling up the back of the oven and less towards the bottom of the steel plate correct?

The stone is fixed and therefore the gap between it and the bottom of the deflector at the back wall is fixed.  As noted, the gas ring can be moved at anytime during the bake and moved so about a maximum of maybe 1/2 of the ring projects into the gap.   For a give gas flow, one can go from zero, to quite a bit over the top of the pie.

With the gas going full bore, and the burner shoved all the way to the back, the flame extends a bit more than 1/2 the way over the top of the stone.  There seems to be enough turbulence to send the flame down a bit.  It is possible to burn cheese.

Yes also very helpful.  The question I have here is that when the flame is going full bore, and the cheese burns, does the crust also burned?  Is the crust potentially receiving less heat in this scenario?

I can eaesily (to easily!) burn the top of the cornicione. It is more difficult to get an intense heat to the outside edge of the cornicione.  One of the better ways to run it, though in the heat of the moment I often forget, is to only push the gas ring about 3/4 out and run the flame only two or 3 inches up the back.  The top stones do retain a good amount of heat.

Can you make your gas ring rotate around its vertical axis during a bake sending more or less up the side and over the top?
 

This seems to happen in my unmodified BS oven.  When I go full bore, The flame comes up the side of the stone, hits the ceiling travels a short distance, and is directed down onto the center of the pie.  The flame arcs and seemingly produces a cooler zone in the center of the arc, where the crust lives.  You get too much heat to the center of the pie burning the cheese, while the crust browns but not as quick as the cheese center. 

This is the only example I could find in a hurry.  I'm sure there are others. 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg261165.html#msg261165

The bottom stone's support is dish shaped so it has a "built-in" air gap of about 1.5 inches at the center.

Mark, can you confirm that this is the same setup in your 2stone pizza grill?  Since we are talking about 2 different models here,  I am trying to determing if the the guts of the 2stone pizza grill is the same as the inferno.

the gap is 23mm. This is totally adjustable.

Mark I have that at 0.9 inch.  Is this minimum or maximum?  Is this different from Paul's 2" gap? 

Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Blackstone vs 2 Stone
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2013, 09:43:35 AM »
Chau, the gap between the edge of the bottom stone and the base of the deflector is 23mm, It is not adjustable as I had previously said. I was thinking of the flame,burner, adjustment.
The metal dish the bottom stone sits on is concave, I have never measured the distance from the bottom of the stone to the bottom of the dish, (hard to get my fingers in there when the stone is in place :-D ) I will measure tonight, whatever the distance, I assume all model of the 2 Stone are =, my 3mm nuts will be added to that distance.


Mark

Mark because of the concaved steel plate (or stone holder), I don't think you need to use the 3mm nuts, but I also don't think it hurts, so maybe just leave them be for now.

What is the gap distance between the top and bottom stone?   

Also, do you feel that you are getting equal top and bottom heat during a typical bake?  I mean are you happy with the top browning or do you want it to brown more or faster?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 09:54:50 AM by Jackie Tran »


 

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