Author Topic: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments  (Read 38353 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline barryvabeach

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 560
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #420 on: June 10, 2014, 07:15:06 AM »
BT,  nice write up and nice photos.


Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #421 on: June 10, 2014, 11:26:24 AM »
So I flipped the polarity of the motor inside the unit to get the rotation CCW.
BT
Now you are just showing off! :-D  In the future when making posts like this please begin with "my apologies to those with less-elegant solutions but"...

Very nice!  Thanks for sharing.

I like the light duty motor but think many people will strip the plastic gears because either the square keystock gets a little off after adjustment, or more likely the bushing grease gets burned off over time and the platter doesn't spin freely.  Just typing out loud, but it wouldn't surprise me if these gears were standard and one could source metal replacements.  Only serious modders would/should undertake gear replacement, but if you are reading this thread, your judgment is already suspect.

I also fancy a three position rocker for CW-off-CCW.

Dave

Offline hockeyfox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Location: United States
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #422 on: June 13, 2014, 10:40:02 AM »
Amazing all the Blackstone related threads and posts.

Back to the Rotation Mod.

For years I've used a battery operated rotisserie identical to the BS unit on my Weber kettle grill. At first I was skeptical about using batteries, but they last a long time. Having the freedom without a power cord is a plus in my eyes. So I want to use the stock battery powered BS unit. The problem with it is that it rotates clockwise (CW). So I flipped the polarity of the motor inside the unit to get the rotation CCW, soldering iron required.


BT

I just put the battery in backwards.

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #423 on: June 13, 2014, 04:26:42 PM »
I just put the battery in backwards.
This makes my short list of forehead-slapping mods.  What a simple, elegant fix for the mobile crowd.  Good for you hockeyfox!

Reader note - the wall power supply is not compatible with this reverse battery setup.  However, if you have a low friction platter (e.g. use either the lower bearing collar mount, or the thrust bearing, or keep grease on the upper bushing), two D-cells alone, installed backwards, should give you about 8 hours of use rotating the platter counter-clockwise (AKA CCW).  Why CCW you ask?  It is easier to work the edge of the pizza toward the flame to dial-in rim color.

Dave

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10602
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #424 on: June 14, 2014, 09:42:23 AM »
OK, super easy mod to change rotation.
BS motor is a simple DC unit, that is why it comes with a DC converter. All you need to do is change the polarity to the motor. If you want to get fancy you can open the motor case up and switch the 2 lead in wires...you'll have to use a soldering gun.

Bob's easy peazzy, down an dirty hack is to simply cut the cord on the AC adapter....you will see a black wire and a red wire....switch these, red to black, black to red. A couple mini wire nuts and a wrap in electrical tape and you're in binnezz.  8)

Bob
And there's always my down an dirty hack.  :chef:

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Ajdoebler

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Boise
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #425 on: August 09, 2014, 05:22:23 PM »
It is my 1st day on the site. May I ask why one would want to reverse the rotation? Is it not symmetric? I went to buy a 'slightly used' BS off the Internet, but the motor did not spin the table, looks stripped, so got for free, and am planning on getting a replacement motor. But the floor model in the store also seemed to have trouble spinning, seems the square drive shaft does not fit the turn table socket very well. Any advice for a new user? Much appreciated, Jon

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10602
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #426 on: August 09, 2014, 05:31:04 PM »
It is my 1st day on the site. May I ask why one would want to reverse the rotation? Is it not symmetric? I went to buy a 'slightly used' BS off the Internet, but the motor did not spin the table, looks stripped, so got for free, and am planning on getting a replacement motor. But the floor model in the store also seemed to have trouble spinning, seems the square drive shaft does not fit the turn table socket very well. Any advice for a new user? Much appreciated, Jon
With the backward spin....you get to see the amount of char/donness of your pie rim.....before it enters back for another go around on the hot top oven flame.....when it looks right ,that is when you pull it and the rest of the pie will look just like that.... the stock way/clockwise can easily over char....you`ll see when you get one.   ;)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 05:33:45 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline daviwill

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 9
  • Location: Idaho
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #427 on: August 10, 2014, 10:24:20 PM »
Why CCW you ask?  It is easier to work the edge of the pizza toward the flame to dial-in rim color.

Dave

It's also easier to for pie placement along the border of the stone.  I've had some overhang that went through the flame - not good, not good at all.

Will

Offline Ajdoebler

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Boise
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #428 on: August 16, 2014, 05:49:19 PM »

Bob's easy peazzy, down an dirty hack is to simply cut the cord on the AC adapter....you will see a black wire and a red wire....switch these, red to black, black to red. A couple mini wire nuts and a wrap in electrical tape and you're in binnezz. 
Bob
That makes perfect sense! (on why CCW is better), is there a similar 3 wire (black, white, green) easy-peasy way to reverse the turn table  rotation? I do not have a soldering gun.

This is a great forum, really appreciate everyone's help.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10602
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #429 on: August 16, 2014, 09:28:13 PM »
Bob's easy peazzy, down an dirty hack is to simply cut the cord on the AC adapter....you will see a black wire and a red wire....switch these, red to black, black to red. A couple mini wire nuts and a wrap in electrical tape and you're in binnezz. 
Bob
That makes perfect sense! (on why CCW is better), is there a similar 3 wire (black, white, green) easy-peasy way to reverse the turn table  rotation? I do not have a soldering gun.

This is a great forum, really appreciate everyone's help.
Sorry, I do not know which black, white, green wires you are referencing. If you mean the wires in your home outlet box....no, reversing those AC conductors will not reverse polarity. Only works on the DC wires coming out of your wall adapter.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Stone Alone - Better, Faster, Cheaper
« Reply #430 on: September 26, 2014, 04:46:33 PM »
The following should be interesting to readers using propane tanks to fire their ovens, especially Neo bakers using a 5 PSI regulator, and those considering switching to natural gas.  It may also appeal to impatient types (I don’t know any :D), and perhaps to others looking to design an improved gas-fired oven.

Stone Alone – The Blackstone Patio Oven doesn’t need the steel support platter and heavy duty shaft.  Frankly, the stock burner setup uniformly heats just the stone with the rotisserie running.  Getting rid of the extra platter hardware cuts the warm-up time in half and results in other benefits.
  • Lower propane use (tank lasts twice as long)
  • Quicker “clean cycle” for platter residue
  • Higher possible stone temperatures (I know, who needs that? Maybe 5psi owners in cold areas and Natural Gas users)
  • Lighter weight (mobile users, and manufacturers with unnecessarily high shipping costs and damage)
  • Lower friction and substantially lower rotation torque to rotisserie motor (especially stock rotisserie and battery users)
  • Fewer parts
  • Same baking ability

DIY “Stone Alone” – There are lots of ways to make the conversion, but I’ve shown the easiest method I know using “off-the-shelf” parts and tools.  Still, you will need to be handy (or have a friend) with tools like a drill, masonry bits, a countersink, hacksaw, tap and die set, and file.

The first photo shows individual parts.  Starting from the top, you’ll need a stone.  Either use the stock stone or buy an extra, and drill a center hole with a ¼” masonry bit.  Continuing down the first photo shows a ¼”-20 countersunk Allen Screw about ¾” long which is what the pizza sees as it slides onto the top of cordierite stone.  To countersink a hole in Cordierite, use a larger masonry bit for the initial shallow cut, then finish off the precise depth and taper by hand with a countersink bit.  I say “by hand” because you want the result just flush with the surface -- it doesn’t help to use a drill.  If you use a standard steel countersink bit (i.e non-masonry) by hand, it works fine and doesn’t seem to dull the tip.

Continuing down the first picture: lower, and to the right, shows a Fender Washer opposite a Coupler Nut.  The Coupler Nut can be found at Ace Hardware in the bolts section.  The tray number in my store was “2202-E” priced at $4.20 ea (it helps to think about how many trips to buy propane you will eliminate).  The Coupler Nut and Fender Washer are zinc coated so let them sit in a cup of vinegar for a few hours just to be safe.

The Shaft is just 3/8” round stock purchased at Home Depot.  After one end of the round stock is threaded (3/8”-16) and the other end is squared off to fit into the rotisserie drive, the shaft length is 14”.  A grinder works to square off the end.  Just grind the tip square, give it a test fit, and then extend the grind up the shaft an inch or so.  You can paint the shaft if you like with grill paint, or season it with vegetable oil, but even if you don’t do anything it is generally quite durable.

This 3/8” shaft is much smaller and lighter than the stock shaft.  However, a bushing needs to be added to adapt the 3/8” shaft to the 3/4" hole in the stock setup.  Two methods are offered.  The simplest is just to use a few washers held in place with spring clamps – simple and inexpensive – but the platter load is entirely supported by the rotisserie motor (which is fine if you are using the heavy duty motor).  However, if you are using the lightweight Blackstone rotisserie motor, I would recommend supporting the load with a 3/8” Collar and set screw (Ace Hardware) just like bigger support collar that Blackstone provides.  To convert the bushing/bearing holes to 3/8”, use a brass Compression Adapter (LFA-125) from Home Depot plumbing section shown in the photo.  The nice thing with either method – washers or Compression Adapter – is that the rotating friction is much lower than stock and you eliminate that fiddly square key with a one-piece shaft that just plugs in.

As an added benefit, if you are familiar with the discussion around Clockwise vs. Counter-Clockwise rotation of the rotisserie motor, and you went with CCW, then you will be happy to know that the stone is self-tightening, i.e. when you launch a pie, that little friction when the pizza peel hits the cordierite ensures that the top screw remains tight.

The second photo shows an early version of the Stone Alone setup installed.  It is noteworthy because it shows the Compression Adapter inserted into the upper bushing with a compression nut and a small Allen-head locking collar to relieve the rotisserie motor of the stone weight.  The compression nut doesn’t actually wear out in my, and Bobino’s experience, but if you make a lot of pizza over a number of years, it is nice to know that you can just replace the nut and be good as new.  Also note the upper stone support is an older design in this photo, and not the recommended Coupler Nut.  The Coupler Nut is better.

Q: Do I need to worry about breaking the stone or bending the shaft?  Nope.  Not as long as you use the standard size stone.  Don’t go with that cheapie ¼” thick Target stone (although it was pretty funny when Bob and I were standing there and the first pie tested created a thermal shock that broke the stone - sending stone, pizza, and sauce into the flame.)  In typical use, the stock stone works fine for launch/retrieval of a heavy pizza plus aggressively scraping or brushing the stone. 

Flame control becomes important once the extra thermal mass of the platter and the insulating air gap between the platter and stone is taken away.  You might remember that I use a needle control valve.  It works great.  Bob uses the stock Blackstone valve and that works fine also.  Going from memory here, in Bob’s setup, with a 10 psi regulator and valve on low produces a steady-state stone temperature of about 750F.  So for those wanting an extended bake time, say between 5-10 minutes per pie, you may want to dial back the regulator pressure to achieve a lower launch temperature.

The last photo shows my current setup with a griddle replacing the cordierite.  The griddle shown is 14” diameter from ShoppersChoice.com for $29 (http://www.shopperschoice.com/item_name_Cajun-Cookware-Griddles-14-Inch-Reversible-Round-Cast-Iron-Griddle_path__item_2161.html).  The careful observer may also note that the upper stone and housing has been replaced by an LBE-style hood.  Longtime members might remember a year ago that I suggested Little Black Egg owners might try using their hood inside a Blackstone.  A 22.5” Weber-style hood works fine and the high temperature paint is more durable than whatever Blackstone is using.  All those fun calculations about radiation vs. convection and the “toast test” led me to “just do it”.  One bake over a year ago, and I never went back.  I get up to temperature a little faster and use a little less propane with this custom hood.  But the simple answer for readers is as stated above is that the bake is the same: Blackstone = Bobino = my setup. 

Hopefully others will put these modification options to good use.  I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a Stone Alone Rotisserie design, but maybe someone has.  All the stone-rotisserie setups I’ve seen (Blackstone, 2Stone, Deni, LBE, etc.) use a platter of some sort.  By sharing this here, the idea becomes part of the public pizza domain for all to enjoy and encourages better oven designs going forward.

Dave
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 08:29:13 AM by Tampa »

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10602
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #431 on: September 26, 2014, 07:35:19 PM »
Hi Dave !!   :)

Simply awesome post man....I hope these folks will look at it closely because everything is there in one neat lil package. You rock sir !   8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline barryvabeach

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 560
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #432 on: September 26, 2014, 09:34:35 PM »
Dave,  excellent work.  I know there is a concern that if the platter stops rotating, the burner will destroy the platter, your mod seems to eliminate that risk. 

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #433 on: September 27, 2014, 08:15:19 AM »
Thanks Bob and Barry.

A few other comments after a re-read.
  • The quickest stone temperature ramp I was able to achieve with 10psi regulator, a full-flow control valve, and all the mods was 200F/minute.  I don't recommend that setup for the average home user - but the stone handled it without a problem.
  • Given the fast ramp, recovery time between bakes isn't an issue.  It would have been fun to have a couple of Neo makers handy to throw successive 1 minute pies.  My bet is that the oven operator would still need to dial back the flame to 3/4.
  • For Neo bakes, one needs to start at a lower launch temperature.  Otherwise, even in a 1 minute bake, the underside can get a lot of color. :D
Dave

Offline dylandylan

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
  • Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #434 on: September 27, 2014, 01:32:51 PM »
Woah Dave!!  That's the mother of all mods.   

Offline Tampa

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Blackstone Mods and Adjustments
« Reply #435 on: September 28, 2014, 07:34:35 AM »
Woah Dave!!  That's the mother of all mods.
Thanks Dylan.  The hood replacement is just a larger version of your cheese grater ;D
Dave