Author Topic: Neapolitan at home?  (Read 1001 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2014, 09:16:16 AM »
Where is that flawless Neapolitan undercrust leoparding from a cast iron pan??? It's a sure bet and you haven't been able to find a picture yet? How can that be?
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Offline scott123

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2014, 09:28:59 AM »
Where is that flawless Neapolitan undercrust leoparding from a cast iron pan??? It's a sure bet and you haven't been able to find a picture yet? How can that be?


Is that what it's come to? Pics or it didn't happen?  ::)

Here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12010.msg132869#msg132869

2 minutes on 1/2" steel at 600-650. If you can't make the mental jump from 1/2" steel at 625ish to 1/8" iron at 700ish, your knowledge of thermodynamics is highly suspect.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 09:39:55 AM by scott123 »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2014, 10:02:51 AM »
Is that what's come to? Pics or it didn't happen?  ::)

Here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12010.msg132869#msg132869

2 minutes on 1/2" steel at 600-650. If you can't make the mental jump from 1/2" steel at 625ish to 1/8" iron at 700ish, your knowledge of thermodynamics is highly suspect.


As you know well, the forum moved beyond "pics or it didn't happen" years ago. I've seen more than  a few undercrust pictures of pies baked on a cast iron pan (and cooked over a flame on a stove) and none come anywhere close to "flawless Neapolitan undercrust leoparding."

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that increasing the temperature by 9% and the conductivity by 10% will offset a 75% reduction in mass. Given the stark difference between 1/2" and 1/4" steel - a mere 50% reduction, that hard to accept. That's why I'd like to see a picture.

Pizza is not bread.

Offline scott123

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2014, 10:37:13 AM »
You're going to start crunching numbers?  If I say 700ish and it turns out that 750 is needed, is that going to make me dead wrong? There's going to be a number that compensates for the drop in thermal mass.  Do I have that number? No, but it exists.

The reason why you've never seen any iron baked undercrusts of note is that, to put it bluntly, no members with any kind of skills have attempted it. Cast iron has, for the most part, always been a beginners thing- someone that saw Heston Blumenthal or read Kenji's article- newcomers that barely even comprehend pizza, no less NP pizza.

When I said I'd put money on it, it wasn't hyperbole.  Pick a dollar amount (the higher the better ;) ), find 10 undercrust photos that you consider to be flawless to be benchmarks. In two months, one of those benchmarks will be achieved.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2014, 11:59:25 AM »
A lot of what you guys are talking about depends 100% on the method, pictures or not. 

In the past my method using a cast iron pan was as follows.  Heat the pan on the stove top 650+.  Crank the broiler in the oven and have the rack in the highest position.  Open the skin and toss it into the hot pan on the stove top.  Top the pie in the hot pan on the stove top with the burner still going.  Once topped transfer the pan with the pizza in it to the oven under the broiler. 

With that method the mass of the pan is pretty irrelevant.  With the direct heat source running under the pie the entire time it is on the stove top you don't get a temperature drop in what little mass you have.  By the time you move the pie into the oven chamber you are ready for the temperature to start dropping anyway, kinda like doming in a wood oven. 

Playing with this method is what led to my stove top oven, I wanted to eliminate the need to move the pie mid bake so I basically built my own broiler over top of one of my stove elements.

Using a cast iron pan without direct heat under it would lead to major mass issues in my opinion.
-Jeff

Offline Gosseni

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Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2014, 12:08:34 PM »
I would suggest replacing the broiler unit with a Flux Capaciter and then pumping a minimum of 1.6 Gigawatts through the unit and the pan. This will insure good freckling. Plus bake times are measured in nanoseconds. Mass issues are now a distant memory.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 12:14:07 PM by Gosseni »

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2014, 12:47:25 PM »
I would suggest replacing the broiler unit with a Flux Capaciter and then pumping a minimum of 1.6 Gigawatts through the unit and the pan. This will insure good freckling. Plus bake times are measured in nanoseconds. Mass issues are now a distant memory.
Chicago Bob is that you?
-Jeff

Offline scott123

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2014, 12:54:51 PM »
Using a cast iron pan without direct heat under it would lead to major mass issues in my opinion.

Jeff, while my search for photos didn't bring up a flawless iron baked NP undercrust, I did see enough incinerated broiler method (off the heat) undercrusts to know, for certain, that mass is not an issue.  If one can incinerate the undercrust, they can leopard it- it's just a matter of dialing in the temp better.

Maybe 1/8" cast iron requires 750 or, who knows, maybe it's even 800. The actual temp it ends up being is inconsequential. The crux of my argument is that a temperature exists that will transfer just the right amount of energy in 90 seconds to produce NP leoparding on cast iron.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2014, 01:35:30 PM »
The crux of my argument is that a temperature exists that will transfer just the right amount of energy in 90 seconds to produce NP leoparding on cast iron.

I don't think that is necessarily true Mr. "your knowledge of thermodynamics is highly suspect." The higher the temperature differential, the faster the energy transfer, AOTBE. What have you ever seen that makes you think the way dough browns is independent of the rate of heat transfer?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Bert,


Offline shuboyje

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 08:19:48 AM »
I'm not Craig, but if you are looking for BTU numbers I'll chime in.  I always used 100% Caputo in my stove top oven.  With one stove top burner at ~10000 btu and one electric element at 1000W(~3500 btu) it produced a 2 minute bake pretty easily.  With two stove top burners at ~20000 btu and two electric elements at 2000w(~7000 btu)  it produced 60-90 second bakes but was difficult to work with even as it's creator, lol.
-Jeff

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2014, 09:03:03 AM »
I'm not Craig, but if you are looking for BTU numbers I'll chime in.  I always used 100% Caputo in my stove top oven.  With one stove top burner at ~10000 btu and one electric element at 1000W(~3500 btu) it produced a 2 minute bake pretty easily.  With two stove top burners at ~20000 btu and two electric elements at 2000w(~7000 btu)  it produced 60-90 second bakes but was difficult to work with even as it's creator, lol.

That's pretty impressive achievement for stove top. Thanks for sharing.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2014, 09:32:27 AM »
Craig, did you bake any pies on your grill mod using caputo flour? How many burners did you use? what's your burners BTU rating?

No. I pretty much only used KAAP. Not because I necessarily thought it was better - mostly because I didn't have a source for Caputo.

The grill says 64,000btu on the tag. I don't know if that includes the IR burner which I ran, but I don't think it made much difference. I also didn't run the center burner wide open, but I did burn a fire in a small cast iron skillet off to the side.
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2014, 09:55:15 AM »
No. I pretty much only used KAAP. Not because I necessarily thought it was better - mostly because I didn't have a source for Caputo.

The grill says 64,000btu on the tag. I don't know if that includes the IR burner which I ran, but I don't think it made much difference. I also didn't run the center burner wide open, but I did burn a fire in a small cast iron skillet off to the side.

Did you experience any problem with your grill while containing so much heat? for example your grill knobs. My grill knobs insert where it comes in contact with the burner valve start to soften when I have only 2.5 burners and the grill grates covered with Foil/MPO.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2014, 10:01:01 AM »
Did you experience any problem with your grill while containing so much heat? for example your grill knobs. My grill knobs insert where it comes in contact with the burner valve start to soften when I have only 2.5 burners and the grill grates covered with Foil/MPO.

No. It is a pretty robust grill. Everything heat-sensitive is well separated from the box.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Neapolitan at home?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2014, 12:38:28 PM »
No. It is a pretty robust grill. Everything heat-sensitive is well separated from the box.

Thanks for the feedback.

This post turned to be great reference.
Bert,


 

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