Author Topic: The NEW Bakerstone  (Read 8053 times)

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Offline red kiosk

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The NEW Bakerstone
« on: July 24, 2013, 08:07:00 PM »
I don't know, whadda' ya' think?

http://www.bakerstonebox.com

Quite a change from their prototype. At the very least, you're still looking at overdone bottoms with this type of set-up. Not to mention the need to keep turning the pizza like a WFO. Is this something Joe Normal-Person would be able to handle? Check out the EXTRAS and FOOD. Bakerstone Pizza Kits in your local grocery freezer section? Riiiiiight! I'm curious to see how this takes off in light of the Blackstone Oven. We'll see. Take care!

Jim
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Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 08:15:13 PM »
That thing sure does look slick. They did a great job on the aesthetics.

What's the price point? And why are there no pie pics?

Offline dsissitka

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 08:23:40 PM »
It's been an exciting year. BakerStone, Baking Steel, Blackstone, Chadwick, KettlePizza, Uuni, ...
 
What's the price point?

$129.99:

http://bakerstonebox.corecommerce.com/The-Brick-Oven-Box-PRE-ORDER.html

Offline red kiosk

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 08:30:56 PM »
I know that they had connected with an outdoor company that took their original design to the next step, so obviously there was a good influx of money. Yes, it does look sleek and finished, but will it do NP in Peoria? The cordierite looks thinner than their original version. Once that temp needle gets over to the "extreme wood-fired temperatures", it's going to be hard not burning the bottoms well before the top is cooked. No mention of 60-90 section Neapolitan pizzas on the updated site. I wonder if they will keep it priced at their Kickstarter price of $129.

Take care!

Jim
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 08:43:00 PM »
That won't come close to a Neapolitan bake time.  How did this possibly raise so much money on kickstarted?  There is literally nothing to it.
-Jeff

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 11:06:22 PM »
It's too bad they didn't sandwich some insulation between metal layers in the outer shell.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 12:00:14 AM »
That won't come close to a Neapolitan bake time.  How did this possibly raise so much money on kickstarted?  There is literally nothing to it.

I think it makes money because 4 in 5 people don't really know NP pizza, and probably 1 out of those 4 doesn't like that it is "burnt" and "soupy."

It appeals better to the masses.

Offline Qarl

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 12:18:31 AM »
The bottom will burn before the top cooks.  I know from experience with a similar setup made from corderite and bricks on my grill

scott123

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 12:28:49 AM »
It's possible that the 'outdoor company' that is backing bakerstone might be the same company that contacted me to help them fine tune their insert.  I gave it considerable thought, but ended up opting out because of my goal to eventually produce a device of my own (or possibly combine my ideas with a partner for an equity share). If it is that company, I'm happy to see that they found a partner to take their device to a higher level.

I was initially highly critical of bakerstone because of their Neapolitan claims and 2stone similarity (along with an incorrect perception of it being a white oven rather than gray). After seeing the blackstone's blatant similarity to the 2stone, and Willard's (so far) lack of action, I've grown to be a lot less concerned about infringement for a device such as this.  Without the Neapolitan claims,  I'm behind it. The hearth real estate might be a bit small, but this should do solid NY style pizza on a typical grill. Could it be improved? Absolutely.  But if the price point ends up in that $129 range (which I think it will), then this should be a very viable solution for NY style seeking grill owners without DIY inclinations.

Another $240 will get you 60 second bakes with a Blackstone, but, in all fairness, that's enough of a disparity to appeal to a different kind of customer.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 01:15:27 AM by scott123 »


scott123

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 12:31:51 AM »
The bottom will burn before the top cooks.

Not necessarily. As long as you're aware that the stone temp might rise a bit during the bake (maybe, depending on the length of the bake and the stone thickness), you can compensate by preheating to a slightly lower temp.

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 01:41:24 AM »


Another $240 will get you 60 second bakes with a Blackstone, but, in all fairness, that's enough of a disparity to appeal to a different kind of customer.

True, the area where they could lose is a person who can afford one device, a grill or a pizza oven.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 09:44:38 AM »
I think the rules for a successfull bottom heat oven are pretty simple. 

1. Massively oversized burner
2.  Quality deflector between the burner and the hearth
3.  Low ceiling height.

This oven leaves #1 as a user by user variable and ignores #2.  That is why I said there is nothing to it.
-Jeff

scott123

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 10:04:41 AM »
1. Massively oversized burner
2.  Quality deflector between the burner and the hearth

1. Not necessarily and 2. Not necessarily  ;D

While there may be one or two freakishly hot grills, 99% percent of grills don't have the necessary power to melt aluminum foil. So, aluminum foil outside the insert to force all the hot air up through the device, and aluminum foil as a deflector.

Maybe a 10K btu grill might be a bit of a question mark, but, anything higher, as long as all the heat is channeled through the device with strategic foil placement, you've got NY, no problem.

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 10:08:53 AM »
You certainly need a lot of BTUs below, and it's really helpful if they are spread out a little so you can adjust down the one directly below if needed. The ceiling height an be mitigated with insulation as I demonstrated in my grill mod: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.msg83372.html#msg83372 To get into NP times, I would think this box would be much better served with some insulation up top. Heat shoots straight through that thin metal.

I ran the radiant burner when baking pies, but it didn't make much of a difference. Most of the IR from the burner shot straight over the top of the pie. Adequate insulation was the deal-maker or breaker. The Fibrament grill stone I used had a) fairly low conductivity, and b) a metal pan that would deflect at least some IR and create a tiny air-gap between the pan and stone. This helped immensely in managing bottom heat. Before the Fibrament, I was using a cheap stone, and without some foil below the stone, I almost couldn't run the center burner.

I'm a bit dubious how this box would perform on my grill for NPish pies. There is no deflector I see on the schematic, so I would need to heavily rely on the two side burners, yet the oven isn't that wide. I think foil would be required to direct convective heat into the box. The top and sides of the box are so much more conductive than the stone center panels, the vast majority of the heat is going to exit away from the baking chamber.

I don't buy the 800F claim from a practical standpoint. Perhaps if everything in the set-up is idea, but not on the average grill. Can it hit 800F on the bottom, probably, but I don't see it being balanced, and it's probably well under 800F above the pies when 800F below. It's tough to get the air above that hot. It literally took me 10 layers of the insulation I was using to balance the heat. I bet you would need at least 1/2" of good ceramic insulation in exterior walls of this oven. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe having this box inside a closed grill is enough?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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scott123

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 10:14:24 AM »
Craig, there's no way this device is doing NP in an unmodded non commercial grade grill.

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 10:15:36 AM »
Craig, there's no way this device is doing NP in an unmodded non commercial grade grill.

No argument from me (as unusual as that may be  ;D).
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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scott123

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2013, 10:54:02 AM »
No argument from me (as unusual as that may be  ;D).

What?! You feeling alright, Craig?  ;D


Offline shuboyje

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2013, 08:36:12 PM »
You certainly need a lot of BTUs below, and it's really helpful if they are spread out a little so you can adjust down the one directly below if needed. The ceiling height an be mitigated with insulation as I demonstrated in my grill mod: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.msg83372.html#msg83372 To get into NP times, I would think this box would be much better served with some insulation up top. Heat shoots straight through that thin metal.

I ran the radiant burner when baking pies, but it didn't make much of a difference. Most of the IR from the burner shot straight over the top of the pie. Adequate insulation was the deal-maker or breaker. The Fibrament grill stone I used had a) fairly low conductivity, and b) a metal pan that would deflect at least some IR and create a tiny air-gap between the pan and stone. This helped immensely in managing bottom heat. Before the Fibrament, I was using a cheap stone, and without some foil below the stone, I almost couldn't run the center burner.

I'm a bit dubious how this box would perform on my grill for NPish pies. There is no deflector I see on the schematic, so I would need to heavily rely on the two side burners, yet the oven isn't that wide. I think foil would be required to direct convective heat into the box. The top and sides of the box are so much more conductive than the stone center panels, the vast majority of the heat is going to exit away from the baking chamber.

I don't buy the 800F claim from a practical standpoint. Perhaps if everything in the set-up is idea, but not on the average grill. Can it hit 800F on the bottom, probably, but I don't see it being balanced, and it's probably well under 800F above the pies when 800F below. It's tough to get the air above that hot. It literally took me 10 layers of the insulation I was using to balance the heat. I bet you would need at least 1/2" of good ceramic insulation in exterior walls of this oven. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe having this box inside a closed grill is enough?

You have me intrigued Craig.  I've got 2" of insulation all around on my stove top oven, and have run both with and without it an not seen much difference.  I'm gonna have to pay more attention and see whats going on there and why it differs so much from your experience. 
-Jeff

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 12:25:51 AM »
It made all the difference in the word in my BBQ mod, and I added more insulation over time in three increments, and the pies got better and better with the additional insulation. Perhaps it was because of the high dome - I never attempted to mod the dome lower - just stuck with the grill door.
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 10:18:40 AM »
Tim (bakerstone) starting to ship ovens to backers... Looking forward for users feedback.
Bert

Offline begreen

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2014, 02:51:49 PM »
I just saw the Bakerstone being demonstrated at the HPB Expo in Salt Lake City. It had been on an uncovered grille for over 4 hrs and was recording about 700F inside. I watched a pizza being made and timed it at around 2m40sec. During this time he turned it once. The results were excellent. The crust was very evenly browned, top and bottom, no burn spots.

This post sort of sounds like an ad, but actually I was at the stove for woodstoves when this little fellow caught my attention in the outside burn area. To answer the question about putting one on a full sized Weber, the answer is yes, it will fit perfectly. I took some photos and will try to post. Be patient with me, first time posting.

We are currently just using our indoor electric oven and want to get an outdoor unit. I'm just catching up on reviews. Has anyone tried the Camp Chef Italia?
http://www.campchef.com/stoves/pizza-ovens.html
It seems affordable, less expensive than the Blackstone, but larger. Though if I recall correctly they were talking about making a larger Bakerstone at the show too. Not positive about that or when it might happen if true.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 03:11:24 PM by begreen »

Offline begreen

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2014, 03:24:03 PM »
Hmmm, I just measured our Weber silver and it does not look like it will fit. Maybe they were showing Bakerstone Jr?  :)

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2014, 04:19:02 PM »
I don't believe anyone in this forum used campchef,  there are some reviews on amazon.

Second pictures suggests, bakerstone can be used on charcoal. Did you see any demonstration of that?

Do you remember if all burners were used or if it was  on high or low?

Was the basil added before or after bake?


Bert

Offline red kiosk

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2014, 05:19:17 PM »
Hmmm, I just measured our Weber silver and it does not look like it will fit. Maybe they were showing Bakerstone Jr?  :)

It definitely looks like a different unit. On the front, the distance from the opening to the sides is smaller and also there is no thermometer on the top. I made something very similar to this for use on my HastyBake Legacy charcoal grill and was able to get the temps in the 850F range with LOTS of lump charcoal. After about five or so pizzas on that coal-fed monster, I decided to become a proud owner of a Blackstone and never looked back. Take care!

Jim

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scott123

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Re: The NEW Bakerstone
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2014, 05:20:40 PM »
In a post in this thread from last year, I had conjectured that the outdoor company that Bakerstone had partnered up with was Camp Chef, but now I see this wasn't the case.

Just to reiterate, neither has a hope of doing a balanced Neapolitan bake, and I feel pretty strongly that the deflection is off on both, but can be corrected with foil. If I had to choose one, though, based upon the smaller size and the Neapolitan claims that Blackstone used to advertise, I'd probably lean towards Camp Chef. I'm not in love with the Camp Chef ceiling height, but, if push came to shove, a ceiling could be lowered via DIY, while the small inner dimensions on the Bakerstone can't be altered.

Neither insert is ideal, though, and neither is going to make great NY style pizza out of the box.  Bert's insert is obviously the superior product, but when you get into his price range, that puts you pretty close to a blackstone.

If someone were to buy a Camp Chef and lower the ceiling, that level of DIY is really not that much more than not buying the Camp Chef and building the entire insert yourself.  The wall material is really the only question mark in the DIY equation. We've discussed some incredibly promising wall materials in the past (such as black stove pipe), but, so far, no one's progressed that far.  I'm hoping someone will take the baton and run with it this summer.  In theory, if you own a webber and either a cordierite stone or a steel plate (of the right size), a DIY insert could probably be put together for less than $40.


 

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