Author Topic: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza  (Read 286 times)

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Offline Gianni5

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Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« on: September 17, 2014, 12:05:34 AM »
Hello all,
I'm not sure if any members here have experience with pizzamaster ovens but I'm hoping to get some opinions/feedback on whether this oven would be a good fit for NY style pies.  I've been using blodgett's forever but the new ones just aren't for me. Slow bake times and unbalanced as far as top and bottom heat. The last oven I purchased was a marsal mb and I am happy with it but lower oven opening is only 8" and it can be really difficult getting heavy "combo" pizzas in and out. Also this oven will be for a new location and because of space issues in the kitchen it would great to be able to get a triple stacked oven wich pizzamaster has. Right now the marsal and the pizzamaster are the only ovens I'm really considering.
Scott123 I'm hoping you'll have something to say if you can.
Thanks
Also I'll attach some pics of the new space and post as we progress
Ps the facade of the building is being torn down and rebuilt so it won't have that horrible out dated look


Online kdefay

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 01:04:18 AM »
I am looking forward to the feedback on this thread.  From what I have figured out so far, Pizzamaster is the only pizza deck oven that I can find with a distributor here in Thailand. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 01:15:02 AM »
You could make/alter that entryway impressive instead of throwing 5k plus down the drano....

Also, you been going through expensive equipment...Scott can hook you up but you need feedback from pmq type research pertaining to your direct application. Sounds like you have good customer traffic.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 01:22:30 AM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 01:39:39 AM »
You could make/alter that entryway impressive instead of throwing 5k plus down the drano....

Also, you been going through expensive equipment...Scott can hook you up but you need feedback from pmq type research pertaining to your direct application. Sounds like you have good customer traffic.

The entryway is actually being paid for by the landlord. I'll check out pmq too thanks

Offline scott123

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 07:30:57 PM »
I know of only two people that own pizzamasters, but, fortunately, being celebrities, we know quite a lot about them.  Jeff Varasano (who basically put pizzamaster on the American map) and Jeff Krupman, aka Pizzahacker.

The last time I spoke to Pizzahacker, he had just opened his place and was still dialing in the oven.  In the article,

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2014/01/pizzahacker-brick-mortar-mission-lengua-pizza-review.html

he said

Quote
The current electric deck oven is a PizzaMaster from Sweden, but Krupman says it's "still on probation." He's considering a switch to a Cuppone oven, but plans to stay electric. "The ceiling/top heat is controlled separately from the floor/bottom heat in the oven," notes Krupman, and "additionally, there is an adjustment for the front part of the ceiling/top (the part closest to the opening) to compensate for the constant cooling of the front of the oven from opening...We can have the oven do whatever we need. It just makes baking a lot easier and more predictable than a wood oven.


and in the comments, he said this to me:

Quote
@scott123 I only have 1 of 2 decks connected. It's a long story, suffice to say I was not expecting to be this busy so soon. Trust me, these electric ovens can reproduce exactly what I want if not over-taxed (same prob w/wood). Give us another month (maybe 2) to get it dialed in. I'm gonna convert you!


The common thread here between the two Jeffs is the lightning fast, bordering on Neapolitan bake.  You won't see this with a Marsal.  I've never priced a full sized pizzamaster, but based on countertops running almost double the price of their American counterparts, I don't think the full sized deck ovens are going to be cheap.  Based on the two Jeffs, I think it's pretty safe to assume that pizzamaster is the oven you go for when you want almost NP bakes- and are willing to pay a premium for almost NP bakes.

John, are you looking for almost NP bakes?  I know you've been flirting with the idea of selling Neapolitan for quite some time, and I think that's a worthy goal, but if your present clientele is purchasing 'heavy combo pizzas,' I don't know if that's the right market for neo ny.  We've talked about this before.  Neo NY- especially that 2-3 minute bake time, is really niche. Pizzahacker can pull it off in San Fran, and Varasano in  Atlanta, but, in the suburbs... I think NY or full fledged NP is the safer bet- and I don't think the pizzamaster can do full fledged NP.  Close- the closest of any other deck oven on the market, but I think, at the end of the day, it can only skirt with NP times, and not fall firmly within the NP spectrum.

Here in NY, when successful pizzerias move into larger spaces and forecast greater sales, they typically double down on the double Marsals.  It's a lot of real estate, but, it's also a lot of sales. I've seen places smaller than yours with 2 x 2s. If you really want to save that space, and you expect the volume that's going to be required from a triple, AND you're comfortable paying a premium, I'm fairly confident that the pizzamaster will give you any possible NY bake time, with volume that's comparable to a triple marsal MB (if one existed). Electric ovens, at least domestic electric ovens, can be weaker than their gas counterparts, and leave you in a bind during your busy times, but, the wattage on the pizzmasters is very high, so I don't think you'll have any concerns on that front.

Speaking of wattage, have you checked the price of gas vs. the price of electric in your area?  The massive popularity of gas ovens is due to gas typically being less expensive. Not only might you be paying top dollar for the pizzamaster at the onset, but you might continue to pay more for it in fuel costs as time goes by.

Once very nice thing about electric, as Jeff pointed out, is that you never have to worry about balance again.  They're not completely idiot proof.  At high temps, the top element can heat the floor, so it takes some finesse to dial them in, but the days of worrying about maintaining balance as you increase the temp/decrease the bake time will be officially over- although it sounds like you ended those concerns with the Marsal.

These are the top two ovens, imo, so you really can't go wrong with either.  If you do go with the pizzamaster, make sure you look at the 'newer' model that Varasano speaks highly about here:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2014/04/jeff-varasano-interview-on-opening-a-pizzeria-atlanta-georgia.html

As much as I trust Jeff, newer isn't always automatically better, so, if you are able to obtain the specs, post them here and I'll compare them against the old specs. For a while, Pizzamaster was offering a high temp version.  If they're still doing two versions, definitely get the hotter one.

Edit: One other thing to consider.  A triple pizzamaster is going to draw a LOT of electricity.  In a commerical setting, you might be okay, but I would definitely look at the present output of your box and compare that with the requirements of the pizzamaster. Not that two banks of double Marsals are going to be easy to install either.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 07:44:55 PM by scott123 »

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 11:08:11 PM »
Thanks for your response Scott,
Right now I'm looking for an oven solely for NY style pizza. In our other locations where we run mostly blodgett's our average bake time is around 7-10 minutes. 7 during slower times and up to ten during the rush. I really want to shoot for the 5 or 6 minute range this time around. I've only recently (thanks mostly to this website) seen how much bake time effects the overall product.
   I know the marsal is more than capable of a 5-6 minute bake but as I said the shorter door height of the bottom deck I don't love, and the fact I can triple stack the pizzamaster have me thinking about which would work better for me. I also love the idea of adjustable top and bottom heat.
    As far as cost: I was quoted $19k for the double deck 6 footers (6 16 inch pies) with the "high heat" package. Very comparable to the marsal. I was also told they are more expensive to run but not to the point where it's cost prohibitive.
    My father had some bad experiences with electric ovens years back so he's a little worried about the whole idea. He said they were notorious for having dead spots during peak times.

Offline scott123

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 12:24:51 AM »
John, your dad's a smart guy.  Historically speaking, electric ovens, as I said, have been known to struggle when the volume starts increasing.  One thing to keep in mind is that the Pizzamaster is in the 4 watts per square inch territory compared to Baker's Pride (and most other domestic electrics) at 3 watts per square inch.  The greater the number of watts, the better the stone is going to recover during busy times.

This being said, I've never stood in front of a pizzamaster and tested how well it stood up to a high volume scenario. I've spoken to a few MB owners and they say that the MB holds up very well under pressure- although one MB owner said that his oven could hit balanced 4 minute bakes when it was new, but can only do longer bakes now (5, I think) a year later. I can crunch the numbers, and, based on the premise that the Baker's Pride electric is most likely a bit problematic when pushed, theorize that another 1 watt per square inch could resolve that issue, but that's just theory.

I'm sure that both Jeffs have pushed their pizzamasters to their limits.  Pizzahacker comes from a pretty humble background, so I think, as long as you're not opening shop in his area, if you asked him about the pizzamaster and high volume, he'd probably give you his opinion.  Varasano seems like a nice guy.  He probably wouldn't give me the time of day  :-D but it wouldn't hurt for you to drop him a line.  These are both classic examples, imo, of next generation pizzamakers- guys that are extremely intelligent, creative, and typically very open.

Does Pizzamaster have any kind of domestic test kitchen?  Even if plane fare is expensive, it might be worth it just to kick the tires a bit. Obviously you're not flying to Sweden (I don't know, might be fun :) ), but I would hope that they have some kind of domestic setup where you can bake some pies. For $20K+ I'd personally want to kick the tires a bit.

Also, what about raising the Marsal a bit so the bottom chamber is not quite so low?

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 01:00:34 PM »
Scott,
I'm going to see if the pizzamaster distributor can help find either a test kitchen or some way to test the oven.
I think I was a bit unclear as far as the height of the marsal. I'm actually speaking about the height of the cooking chamber. It's only 8".  The top oven on a stacked marsal mb is 9.25", Pizzamaster are 9.6",and blodgett's 10".  The lower chamber height is not a deal breaker it's just a little hard on my employees.

Offline scott123

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Re: Pizzamaster oven for NY style Pizza
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 01:58:27 PM »
Ah, I thought both the size of the chamber and the position of the bottom chamber were causing the issue.  I understand now.


 

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