Author Topic: % IDY  (Read 998 times)

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Offline sonny.eymann

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% IDY
« on: August 02, 2013, 11:05:19 PM »
I am new to the forum  ( about 30 days ) but in that time I have made about 60 dough balls of 20.5 oz each, one at a time. I am trying to learn and be consistent.  I am not trying to be efficient with the production.

I have read for hours old posts on the forum. Often there are comments and questions as to the IDY percent in a recipe but almost no one talks about or questions what is done with the dough after it is mixed? or the enviourment of the dough as it is mixed?  or how fast it goes to the cooler and what temperature of the cooler  as it ferments?   Those questions and answers has just as much to do we the outcome of the dough as the start point of  % IDY.  in my opinion. I am here to learn so if I have incorrectly formed a opinions by all mean please correct me, my feeling will not be hurt.

All of my dough balls have been made with IDY between .3 and .8%

I want to define what I am calling a “proof” . one proof is when the dough volume doubles in size. there is enough food in the dough to proof 3 or maybe 4 times  but is running out of food after 2 or 3 proofs. Just not sure when the yeasts start dying. And yes I do think it leave a bad flavor in the dough product if proofed 4 times.

also as dough is fermented in the cooler, bringing the dough ball back to room temperature results one proof no mater what the start point of IDY.

This is my observation.
My kitchen is at 75 or 82 degrees F. ( air conditioning on or off)

Mixing the dough:  if everything is at 82F than the final dough temperature will be about 89F but if I use ice cold water than the final dough temperature will be 81F. I always use I cold water to mix.

If I use .3%  IDY then it may take  50% more time at room temperature to the first proof compared to .8% ......but the time to the second proof is about the same no mater what % IDY at the start. 

I have 2 refrigerators one normal and one chess type. the normal one is at 43F the chess one is at 34F

If I mix at .3 IDY and go into the 43f it will take 48 to 60 hours to proof once
but if I mix at .8% IDY and go into the 43f it will prove once in 20 to 24 hours.

If I mix at .3% IDY and mess around for a hour at room temperature than go into the 43F refrigerator it will also proof in about 20 hours.

If I mix at .8 IDY and go into 34f it will not 50% proof in 48 hours. It matter the ferment temperature

If I mix at .8 IDY and double proof at room temperature of 82. the dough taste is somewhat lacking but can be done in about 2.5 hours.

If I mix at 82F and proof only once before making a skin it can be done in about 1.5 hours and the taste very lacking.

What I don’t know is how to ferment for best flavor because I am happy with a 75f room temp double proof then make the skin starting with .3% IDY. The dough handles better than dough that has been warmed. the total time from mix to skin is about 4 hours and I think makes a good pizza.

Comments please


scott123

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 09:21:01 AM »
Sonny, 'proof' is synonymous with 'ferment' and doesn't necessarily mean a single instance of doubling.  'Rise' might be a better term for this purpose.

We have some members who prefer a double rise, because of the improved oven spring it provides, but, as far as I know, no one does any more rises than that.

Some popular pizzerias have short, same day fermentation times (usually 8 hours or less), but it is almost universally recognized that longer ferments produce a better tasting crust.  These longer ferments are achieved through either using lower quantities of yeast or refrigerating the dough balls- or a combination of both.

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 12:23:26 PM »
Ok I will call a doubling a rise.
The point I am trying to make and I hope other less skilled as myself take from this post   it is much more complex than the start point of IDY %.
Is it just a 24 hour slow rise that affects  flavor?  or is there a ideal ferment temperature?  IDY is adjust to not be to active during the aging? Help me understand the goal? Or should I just not worry about and use just enough IDY not to blow up under the ferment conditions?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 12:45:01 PM »
Sonny,

As you can see from Reply 12 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24869.msg251504.html#msg251504 , selecting the amount of yeast to use when temperatures and fermentation times vary can be a complicated matter.

Peter

Offline caltheide

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 04:52:56 PM »


We have some members who prefer a double rise, because of the improved oven spring it provides, but, as far as I know, no one does any more rises than that.



I hope I did the quote right... Scott, when you say a double rise I think of letting the mixed and kneaded dough rise at room temp, punching down and letting rise again (or forming and let rise again), like bread. Is this correct?  I am trying for more oven spring so I would love to know if this is what you mean or exactly what do you mean? Right now I mix, knead, stretch and fold a few times, ball and refrigerate overnight.  Where would this second rise fit in?  Thank you, Cindy

scott123

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 05:04:58 PM »
Where would this second rise fit in?  Thank you, Cindy

Cindy, the second rise I was referring to is a re-ball. A re-ball, from a dough perspective, achieves the same effect as a punch down. The re-ball is generally done at least 6 hours before stretching, in order to give the dough plenty of time to relax.  When I re-ball, I give it 24 hours.

Offline caltheide

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 05:08:49 PM »
Thank you Scott for your quick reply, I'm getting ready to make pizza dough today so that helped.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 07:58:44 AM »
Sonny;
If you will send me a message requesting my Dough Management procedure I'll be glad to send you a copy. This is the complete procedure that is typically followed to make pizza dough at the pizzeria (but it also works at home too) from mixing to final use of the dough. Keep in mind that this is just the base procedure, there can be any number of modifications or changes made to the procedure as necessary to give you the finished pizza under your existing shop/kitchen conditions.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: % IDY
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 09:32:46 AM »
I believe the procedure that Tom has in mind is the one set forth at Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7499.msg64554/topicseen.html#msg64554.

Peter