Author Topic: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort  (Read 2910 times)

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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« on: August 04, 2013, 09:17:15 PM »
Important to note - I've NEVER tried the original version, having only read about it and seen pics and videos.

Having said that, I was very satisfied with how this pie came out. So, any guesses?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 09:20:28 PM by Johnny the Gent »
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 09:56:53 PM »
Dunno, but I would be on that like dog on stink.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 10:22:03 PM »
Not L&B crumb is too open  ???
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Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 02:14:24 AM »
I'd guess a Buddy's Detroit style.  Looks tasty!!

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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 02:32:47 AM »
That looks so good!  Please share your recipe.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 05:59:25 AM »
Wold it be from reading through our girl Norma's thread??? I haven't tried her Detroit style yet but I'm going too soon!!

jon
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Online norma427

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 10:11:20 AM »
Johnny the Gent,

Was your pizza made with the Enkir wheat flour?  http://www.formaggiokitchen.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2379   The crumb looks so different so that is why I am asking.  I haven't seen your type of crumb many times.  I am thinking your pizza might be a Pizzarium style of pizza.

Norma

Edit:  In this article it says that enkir flour is a natural yellow color. http://www.mulinomarino.it/eng/cereali.php Your crumb looks more yellow that most crumbs I have seen.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 10:16:51 AM by norma427 »
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 06:02:22 PM »
 ^^^

Peter

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 07:50:51 PM »
This was an attempt to make an L&B style pie. Tough thing to do considering I've never tried the real deal. I have read plenty about the L&B pie, so I was curious to make something similar. Based on what I've seen, my crumb was indeed  too open (and, for lack of a better word - different, as Norma observed).

Like many other members have done, I plan to tinker some more with this recipe. The pie is simple, but so delicious. Honest is an adjective that comes to mind.

Here's what I remember from my "thrown together last minute recipe":

AP Flour 100%
Water     66%
EVOO     4%
Salt        1.8%
Cake yeast 1%

Salt dissolved in cold water - CY whisked in, followed by flour.  Once all the flour was incorporated - hand kneaded for another couple minutes, followed by oil.  No stretch or folding - I made it a point to avoid this because I was after a tighter crumb structure.   Room temperature rise, it took about 4 hours to get big and gassy (more than double). I gently laid out the dough into the oiled pan, and gently stretched open the dough, using fingertips.  I had to knock the dough down a couple times over a period of one hour, then it was ready to bake.  No parbaking - all toppings on and into the oven at 300 deg celsius for about 15 min (10 minutes on the bottom, 5 min up top).

I hope to be able to reproduce this same dough, because I really did like it.  Next time I'll use a longer cold rise to develop more flavor...

Thanks for chiming in,

*Norma - the photos were taken under natural sunlight in the backyard, underneath a local fruit tree (Jabuticaba) There is indeed a yellowish hue to the dough, which I attribute to the lighting conditions. Next time I'll try to snap a pic in the shade or indoors.
J
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 08:43:01 PM »
Johnny the Gent,

I did eat L&B Spumoni Gardens pizza at Reply 249 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175828.html#msg175828 and your pizza looks much better than theirs.  I would like your open crumb much better.  ;D

Thanks for telling me you attribute the color of the crumb to your lighting conditions.

Norma
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 09:07:14 PM »
Norma,

Thanks for the link - I somehow missed that. Great pics, too. Lots of good info there. Thanks for the compliment! I'll intentionally be trying to get a denser crumb, so that should be interesting. We'll see how it goes!

J
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 06:08:59 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for the link - I somehow missed that. Great pics, too. Lots of good info there. Thanks for the compliment! I'll intentionally be trying to get a denser crumb, so that should be interesting. We'll see how it goes!

J

John,

Chau's pizza crawl with all those members was fun.  Will be interesting if you intentionally try to get a denser crumb.  I like more open crumbs like yours much better, but guess you will find out how you like denser crumbs.  Maybe you have made denser crumbs before, but I haven't seen them.

Norma
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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 06:43:56 AM »
The L&B crumb is tighter/denser visually but still very light in texture.  I agree with Norma.  like the look of your open crumb better.  Thanks for posting your recipe.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 12:01:29 PM »
Johnny,

I would say that you have a particular mastery of and appreciation for subtleties in crumb structure in all things baked!

Being that you are geographically challenged (from a NE USA pizza standpoint) I guess you are going to have to decide (and tell us) which of your recipes you like better --- open or closed. Who is to say which is "better"?

Chau says he likes the look of yours (maybe more than the L+B, which he's had) and on the other hand John Conklin was able to tell right off the bat that your crumb was more open than L+B. We sure have a lot of qualified people here! :)  I was sorry to not have tasted L+ B on my recent trip to NY.

Please keep us up on any further experiments here!

John K
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2013, 12:05:24 PM »
It's definitely more open that L&B. I wasn't all that impressed with L&B (visited with Chau). Yours looks much better, IMO.
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2013, 08:01:19 AM »
The L&B crumb is tighter/denser visually but still very light in texture.  I agree with Norma.  like the look of your open crumb better.  Thanks for posting your recipe.

tighter & denser, yet still light - that's the part I find intriguing. One of these days I´ll get close enough. Thanks!

It's definitely more open that L&B. I wasn't all that impressed with L&B (visited with Chau). Yours looks much better, IMO.

Craig, what was it that didn't appeal to you about the L&B pie?  Do you recall the flavor of the dough? My guess is that they're using a same day dough, which may leave a bit to be desired in the flavor dept.

Johnny,

I would say that you have a particular mastery of and appreciation for subtleties in crumb structure in all things baked!

Being that you are geographically challenged (from a NE USA pizza standpoint) I guess you are going to have to decide (and tell us) which of your recipes you like better --- open or closed. Who is to say which is "better"?

Chau says he likes the look of yours (maybe more than the L+B, which he's had) and on the other hand John Conklin was able to tell right off the bat that your crumb was more open than L+B. We sure have a lot of qualified people here! :)  I was sorry to not have tasted L+ B on my recent trip to NY.

Please keep us up on any further experiments here!

John K

John, thank you very much for your kind words, but I must say, in the grand scheme of things, I'm very much a noobie (or is it newbie? :-D)? Nonetheless, I appreciate your feedback.  I don't use a machine mixer - every single pie I've made over the last several years have been hand mixed, so I've learned a lot.

Agreed - I think you'd be hard pressed to find a more experienced group of pizza enthusiasts than our very own pizzamaking.com forum.

OK - I'll be sure to share future experiments and results.

J
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2013, 08:09:43 AM »
Craig, what was it that didn't appeal to you about the L&B pie?  Do you recall the flavor of the dough? My guess is that they're using a same day dough, which may leave a bit to be desired in the flavor dept.

To me, the crumb was more bread than pizza. The flavor was fine. It's just not my style of pizza. This is a picture of the crumb of the pie I tried there (Chau took the pic).
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2013, 08:16:56 AM »
I don't want to give the impression that L&B was bad - it certainly was not bad. Chau's assessment "tighter/denser visually but still very light in texture" is a good one though I probably would have used "soft" instead of "light" to describe the texture.
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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2013, 08:17:46 AM »
Johnny, your pie inspired me to try and make one with a more open crumb.   I gleaned a few tips and techniques from your posted recipe and method and got a more open crumb.  Not perfected yet on my end but the pie was good.  Thank you.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26839.msg271458.html#msg271458
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 08:30:21 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 08:21:19 AM »
To me, the crumb was more bread than pizza.

Thanks, that makes sense. Based on the descriptions I've read and the pics I've seen  - it does seem to be a "bready" dough.

For those that haven't seen it- below's a post by David Lumb that highlights the L&B pie, and compares slices with Square and Underground. There's also a video and recipe - attempting to recreate the L&B pie.

http://www.animalnewyork.com/2012/lb-spumoni-gardens-notoriously-delicious-square-slice-deconstructed/

Next time I'll have to remember step no. 7 from the author's recipe:

7. Let cool for 20 minutes. Cut in squares and serve the corner to your favorite person. Chumps get the middle no-man’s-land slice.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 08:23:40 AM by Johnny the Gent »
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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2013, 08:29:30 AM »
I think I appreciated the L&B slice more than Craig did.  :D. Yes the texture was both soft and light, but light considering it's style and thickness.  It's a very well made dough.  The tightness and softness of the crumb likely comes from overmixing with a gentle action, a moderately high hydration, with a bit of oil in the dough. 

Another place I ate at called Nellos in Az had a similar texture.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12947.msg126063.html#msg126063

I have been trying to figure out how to reproduce this effect for a long time without success.  I think the part of the equation I am missing is the big commercial mixer making a big batch of dough at one time.

I do recall Craig saying that it is more like bread than pizza to me, but I would not say the texture is bread like in any way.  "Bread like" gives me the idea of a heavy or dense crumb and this was not so.  The texture was very soft and light considerig its thickness and that it was fried in oil.  It is bread like if you are talking about a well made baguette with a light and pillowy crumb.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 08:48:56 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2013, 08:39:11 AM »
I don't want to give the impression that L&B was bad - it certainly was not bad. Chau's assessment "tighter/denser visually but still very light in texture" is a good one though I probably would have used "soft" instead of "light" to describe the texture.

The adjective used in this post [url]http://www.animalnewyork.com/2012/lb-spumoni-gardens-notoriously-delicious-square-slice-deconstructed/]http://www.animalnewyork.com/2012/lb-spumoni-gardens-notoriously-delicious-square-slice-deconstructed/] [url]http://www.animalnewyork.com/2012/lb-spumoni-gardens-notoriously-delicious-square-slice-deconstructed/[/url] was "pillowy" - specifically the center. That reminds me of some bread I've had, especially freshly baked.

Johnny, your pie inspired me to try and make one with a more open crumb.   I gleaned a few tips and techniques from your posted recipe and method and got a more open crumb.  Not perfected yet on my end but the pie was good.  Thank you.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26839.msg271458.html#msg271458


Looks great! I'll have a question about that pie, will post on that thread.

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2013, 08:42:24 AM »
I don't want to give the impression that L&B was bad - it certainly was not bad. Chau's assessment "tighter/denser visually but still very light in texture" is a good one though I probably would have used "soft" instead of "light" to describe the texture.

Craig,

I would agree with you that soft would be the word.  My slice had a gum layer, which I don't know was good or bad.  To me it reminded me of being bready.  I guess that is not my style of pizza either.

Norma
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2013, 08:43:09 AM »

I do recall Craig saying that it is more lile bread than pizza to me, but I would not say the texture is bread like in any way.  "Bread like" gives me the idea of a heavy or dense crumb and this was not so.  The texture was very soft and light considerig its thickness and that it was fried in oil.

Are you guys sure you ate the same pie?  :-D  JK!
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Re: Guess which famous square pie inspired this effort
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2013, 08:56:30 AM »
Are you guys sure you ate the same pie?  :-D  JK!

We sat right next to each other and had slices from the same pie.  ;D.

Btw, I do like the look of the open crumb better, but I've yet to produce the same softness in the crumb of the L&B square.  It may just be the specific flour.  ???
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 09:01:40 AM by Jackie Tran »