Author Topic: newbie looking for dough help  (Read 1121 times)

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Offline goldphishe

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newbie looking for dough help
« on: February 20, 2006, 09:22:21 AM »
I think I have the basics down  - the pizza always tastes really good - but the dough doesn't always cooperate.  I am a restaurant inspector from NJ and every time i inspect a pizza place (we only have "NY" pizza) i always ask the guys how they do what they do.  I've made the leap from AP to High Gluten (one of the guys was nice enough to provide me with a few lbs of flour to get started because I couldn't find it in the grocery stores) but the dough still doesn't get very stretchy.  The recipe i worked with is:

1/2 tsp honey
1 scant cup of warm water
1 package active dry yeast
2 3/4 cup High Gluten Flour
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1 tbs olive oil

I let it knead in my kitchenaid for 15 minutes then form it into a ball and oil it then let it rise in a warm spot until it doubles, punch it down, then wait 5 minutes - split the dough in half (to make 2-12" pizzas) then procede with the pizza making.  I generally get pissed off and wind up using a rolling pin to stretch it out.  the dough never gets as thin as i want it  to - but it does taste good. 

I talked to one of the pizza guys and he said my recipe sounds about right (as far as the ingrediants go) but they make so much dough in advance that they refrigerate it rather than let it rise on the counter.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 09:55:26 AM by goldphishe »


Offline Perk

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Re: newbie looking for dough help
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2006, 10:29:28 AM »
Your pizza actually looks good!

In my opinion by what you wrote, and believe me, I am no expert but found things out the hard way.
There is a couple things to look at,
The way you prep your dough
First you are correct, use either bread flour that you can buy in the store or high gluten flour you can order.
next from just looking at your kneeding time, for me that is a long time and sometimes over kneeding can be more
harmful then under kneeding.

Next proof your yeast  make sure it is alive and thriving by adding it to warm water about 110F with a little of sugar or honey.

and if you use the active yeast in a packet, from your flour quantity I would say you use 2 twice as much as I would.
But some people like the yeast taste, myself I don't like a yeast taste and you only need half the package with your amount of ingredients.

Here is what I would do, and this is what you may be doing.
Add your warm water, yeast and Honey
let proof for 5 min.
Then add half your flour and oil and spoon mix if you don't have a mixture.
Then add the other half of your flour kneed until everything is mixed and the dough looks smooth.
I use a Kitchen aid mixture but then hand kneed for a couple minutes afterwards.

Let rise, punch down and separate and put in an air tight container or zip lock bag.
Now this is what many people do, Refrigerate your dough for at least 2hrs on it's second rise.
It would be best for over night
but 2 hours seems to be OK for me.

The dough will be chilled and more manageable to work with and stretch.

Try to stay away from the rolling pin.  :D

« Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 10:31:31 AM by Perk »
-Dave
Jacksonville Fl.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: newbie looking for dough help
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2006, 11:23:13 AM »
goldphishe,

I agree with everything that Perk has said.

High-gluten flour is prone to producing a highly elastic dough when it is subjected to short fermentation times. It takes many hours, and preferably 24 hours or more of cold fermentation, to allow the enzymes and other biochemical activity in the dough to soften the gluten so that the dough can be handled without being over-elastic. That is one of the reasons why some pizza operators use dough conditioners like PZ-44 to make the dough less elastic and more extensible (stretchy). With proper fermentation, such conditioners are not really necessary.

I also agree with Perk on the amount of kneading. I think you can get away with about half the knead time you used. If you choose to use cold fermentation, you can use only a fraction of the yeast (ADY) you are now using. I know that some members will advocate using instant dry yeast (IDY) if you go the cold fermentation route, but I am not as forceful on that point. IDY is indeed more convenient to use, but if the ADY is properly proofed there is no reason not to use it.

Since you referred to yourself as a “newbie” in the title of your thread, you might find this thread on basic dough/pizza making of interest and value: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.0.html.

Peter