Author Topic: Ischia Starter Results  (Read 1266 times)

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Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Ischia Starter Results
« on: August 19, 2013, 09:30:35 AM »
Hey everyone, sorry to have been MIA for so long.  Busy making Neapolitan pies in the WFO all Spring and Summer!  But, I've found most of my friends, family and neighbors don't really appreciate the soft almost wet style of pies.  So, I decided to venture back into the New York Style realm and I'm happy I did! 

Nothing special here, just wanted to show the results I got from a formulation I've been working on and have enjoyed several times in the past month.  It's an Ischia starter (1:1 water / flour - fed twice prior to use), with a hint of IDY, and flour blend of 2 parts All-Trumps and 1 part Caputo 00.  I've been searching for a blend that I could use at relatively high heat (700 floor, 850 ceiling), but avoid burning the bottom which is what my experiments with just bread flour have done. 

I also wanted a dough that I could make without a 3 day notice, but still develop excellent flavor depth.  This did the trick!  After a 20 minute autolyse and a total of 7 minutes of kneading in a Bosch, I did a bulk rise for about 12 hours at around 66 degrees.  Volume had crept up around 40-50% at this time, and it was a silky smooth dough.  At this point (morning of evening bake), I balled it and refrigerated in stacked aluminum dough pans as I wanted to retard it a bit at this point since I am not a pro at room temp rises.  It rested there for about 8 hours, and then sat on the bench remaining in aluminum containers for about 4 hours before opening.  It opened beautifully.  Easy to work, supple and exactly what I was looking for.  Baked in under 2:30.  Depth of flavor was excellent, not sour, just had character.  A bunch of micro blisters, enough char on the bottom for flavor without overkill, when I didn't screw up and put my sauce out too wide, the cornicione was great, and I liked the crumb very much.  This pic was topped with drained and stick blended san marzano's w/ a few grams of sugar, fresh mozz, a sprinkle of my cheese blend (very light), uncured pepperoni and some basil from my garden (salt and EVOO as well).  This was a 61.5% hydration with the following formulation:



Final Dough: 
Flour:  1627.58 g  |  57.41 oz | 3.59 lbs
Water:  1000.96 g  |  35.31 oz | 2.21 lbs
Salt:  40.69 g | 1.44 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.48 tsp | 2.83 tbsp
IDY:  1.63 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.54 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Preferment:  162.76 g | 5.74 oz | 0.36 lbs
Total: 2670.86 g | 94.21 oz | 5.89 lbs | TF = 0.102
Single Ball:  445.14 g | 15.7 oz | 0.98 lbs


 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 09:57:34 AM by ThePizzaBiatch »


Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 01:38:19 PM »
Was this pizza just boring, horrific or just blah!  ???  I usually get some feedback - good, bad or ugly.  But this silence is deafening!!'

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 02:11:04 PM »
Was this pizza just boring, horrific or just blah!  ???  I usually get some feedback - good, bad or ugly.  But this silence is deafening!!'

Speaking only for myself, I don't often comment on cold ferments. Notwithstanding, the char on the bottom and the crumb both look nice.

I'd consider 0.1% IDY more than a "hint." That's 3X what I'd use for a 24 hour/66F dough.  This is what was giving you the majority of your rise  - not the Ischia. While I'm sure it added some flavor, you probably didn't even need the Ischia from the point of view of getting a properly risen dough with the workflow you described.

With the 10% Ischia you used, 24 hours at 65-66F would probably have been just about perfect without the IDY. I'd encourage you to experiment with room temp rises. I'd also encourage you to trust your culture and dispense with the IDY. You will be amazed how much doing these two things (you have to do both) will improve your pizza. If you're uncomfortable, make two batches of dough for the first couple times - one this way and one with IDY in the fridge. That way you know you will have one that works in case the other needs tweaking - and it will give you the opportunity to try them both side-by-side.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 07:02:18 PM »
The pizza looks delicious to me.  Great crumb. 

As far as the silence on your original post, I think a lot of it is chance.  Sometimes I will post something and no one says boo; who knows why. Sometimes you get stepped on by a few other posts, sometimes there's no one commenting. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 05:54:16 PM »
Speaking only for myself, I don't often comment on cold ferments. Notwithstanding, the char on the bottom and the crumb both look nice.

I'd consider 0.1% IDY more than a "hint." That's 3X what I'd use for a 24 hour/66F dough.  This is what was giving you the majority of your rise  - not the Ischia. While I'm sure it added some flavor, you probably didn't even need the Ischia from the point of view of getting a properly risen dough with the workflow you described.

With the 10% Ischia you used, 24 hours at 65-66F would probably have been just about perfect without the IDY. I'd encourage you to experiment with room temp rises. I'd also encourage you to trust your culture and dispense with the IDY. You will be amazed how much doing these two things (you have to do both) will improve your pizza. If you're uncomfortable, make two batches of dough for the first couple times - one this way and one with IDY in the fridge. That way you know you will have one that works in case the other needs tweaking - and it will give you the opportunity to try them both side-by-side.

Great idea on the side-by-side.  What's interesting, is I did a side-by-side on this - but in the opposite direction.  Not sure of what taste the starter would impart, I used the same set up as above, but used 2.5g of IDY (w/ adjustments on Flour / Water to compensate for lack of starter).  What was interesting is this dough didn't have quite as much rise in the bulk rise as my original formulation did.  I only write this, as this is the only variable I changed - so the starter must have been responsible for a considerable amount of the rise in the main batch of dough.  Thoughts?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 06:05:14 PM »
Great idea on the side-by-side.  What's interesting, is I did a side-by-side on this - but in the opposite direction.  Not sure of what taste the starter would impart, I used the same set up as above, but used 2.5g of IDY (w/ adjustments on Flour / Water to compensate for lack of starter).  What was interesting is this dough didn't have quite as much rise in the bulk rise as my original formulation did.  I only write this, as this is the only variable I changed - so the starter must have been responsible for a considerable amount of the rise in the main batch of dough.  Thoughts?

Hard to say for sure. It's a possibility for sure. Another possibility is that the baker's yeast was metabolizing byproducts of lactic acid bacteria (LAB) fermentation. Perhaps the baker's yeast has more available food with the LAB present and that resulted in a faster rise? 
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Tannerwooden

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 02:14:44 AM »
"But this silence is deafening!!"

I think some of that is Summer. So many of us cook indoors that Summer nixes pizza for a while. It always seems to quiet down a bit on this page when I look. I haven't been on for a couple of months.

Pizza looks incredible, btw. The crumb is perfect and the cheese cooked exactly right. How thick was the uncured pepperoni? I find a pepperoni tastiest when I can get it sliced SUPER thin.

Is the Ischia purchased from Sourdough International? I used it for a while, but it wasn't as sour as I was hoping. I've always wondered how much climate affects that sort of thing though.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 09:03:19 AM »
But this silence is deafening!!'
ThePizzaBiatch,

I have been on this forum for over nine years, with most of that time as a Moderator, and because I look at all posts I pretty much see what goes on day to day on the forum. And what I have found is that it is difficult to predict how members will respond to the posts of other members. And that includes mine. I think that part of the explanation is that we have a lot fewer active members--members who post a lot--at any given time than the forum membership numbers would suggest. Most of the people on the forum at any given time are Guests who can read but not post. They typically outnumber members who are on the forum at any given time and might be in a position to post by about 3-4 times on average. Also, some members only look at posts that are on certain boards. There are also seasonal factors that affect participation at any given time, such as the start of college and professional football. And certain months are stronger than others. There are also certain boards that get very few page views. The Forum Info is one such board. That board is littered with the carcasses of threads that have starved to death for lack of viewership. 

So, I wouldn't read too much into responses or the lack thereof to your posts. Your posts are perhaps getting more viewers than you realize.

Peter

Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 12:32:49 PM »
Hard to say for sure. It's a possibility for sure. Another possibility is that the baker's yeast was metabolizing byproducts of lactic acid bacteria (LAB) fermentation. Perhaps the baker's yeast has more available food with the LAB present and that resulted in a faster rise?

Great possible explanation - thanks.  Considering the only variable was the starter, it had to 'amp up' the baker's yeast in some way.  No matter, you hit the head on in your first post.  I was hesitant to have a group over for pizza only to have the dough be a flop (slight pun intended).  I'll do post, let them be the judge, and take it from there.  Good news is the wine is usually flowing long enough before the pies start coming out - they would be happy with Tombstone skins...

Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Ischia Starter Results
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 12:35:26 PM »
"But this silence is deafening!!"

I think some of that is Summer. So many of us cook indoors that Summer nixes pizza for a while. It always seems to quiet down a bit on this page when I look. I haven't been on for a couple of months.

Pizza looks incredible, btw. The crumb is perfect and the cheese cooked exactly right. How thick was the uncured pepperoni? I find a pepperoni tastiest when I can get it sliced SUPER thin.

Is the Ischia purchased from Sourdough International? I used it for a while, but it wasn't as sour as I was hoping. I've always wondered how much climate affects that sort of thing though.

I had them slice the pepperoni (Whole Foods) one notch above shaved.

I'm interested in the Ischia flavor - and yes, I did get it from SI.  I'll do the room temp proofing with just the Ischia, and check for the flavor, as I'm guessing I didn't develop it fully previously.  It was present, but not noticeable unless you were looking for it.