Author Topic: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?  (Read 57476 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2006, 05:25:02 PM »
Waz,

Once you get the dough formulation right, I think the proper bake temperature and time will follow after a few experiments to match the pizza to your particular oven.

Were you able to detect any further differences between your last pizza and the latest Donatos pizzas in terms of crust thickness, taste and texture, including the egginess of the crust?

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2006, 06:15:54 PM »
I tried close to your recipe just to see. I was quite surprised that I used alot more oil and sugar than I normally do and had less rise. Not sure why maybe peter might know that answer.

Marty,

I am not sure I have a good answer. Between the eggs and the yeast and the leavening they provide, I would have thought that you would have gotten enough "lift" to the skin, especially after proofing. Remember, also, that the thickness factor for the last Donatos dough formulation I posted is 0.085, which is on the thin side--maybe thinner than your normal crusts. Since there is room in the formulation to increase the yeast, maybe doing that will give you a greater rise if that is what is needed. Using bromated flour might also increase the strength of the dough and help keep it in a risen state just before saucing, cheesing, and topping. At 1%, the sugar is actually on the low side. The oil, at 3.5%, is not excessive as dough recipes go. However, in the dough formulation there is room to either increase it or decrease it.

Did you use all of the ingredients in the Donatos clone formulation?

Peter
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 08:00:04 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2006, 07:39:20 PM »
Peter,

Don't get me wrong I liked the results with the less rise. My dough balls were 16oz on a 14" screen.

I didn't do exact measures.
I tried this. using a large batch in a commercial mixer

54% water
3.25% oil
1% sugar
1.5% salt
1.5% dry milk
2% egg beaters Its all I bought didn't want to get too crazy 1st time around. :-D
.5% yeast

I am currently at 2.5% oil so was a little skeptical to go higher.
The crust was quite good a little heavier than our current and not as crispy.

It seemed as though the egg made it heavy and dense but it wasn't a tough chewy crust.
It was tasty. ;D



marty

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2006, 08:09:05 PM »
Marty,

Now I see what you did. By using 16 ounces of dough for a 14" pizza, you ended up with a much greater thickness factor--0.104. Also, by using the Egg Beaters, which is about all egg white, at 2%, you perhaps lost the leavening power contributed by the yolk.

The amount of oil will vary from one style of pizza dough to another. It can be as little as 1% for a standard style and as much as 20-24% for a deep-dish style. NY styles can run from 1-4%. A pan style can be as high as 8%. Some styles, like authentic Neapolitan style, use no oil at all. I made my best estimate for the Donatos clone dough based on where all of the ingredients are in the pecking order in the ingredients list that Waz got from Donatos.

Peter

Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #84 on: August 31, 2006, 11:07:15 AM »
Peter,

Do you recommend me using fresh eggs instead of egg beaters?
And what size of dough balls should I be doing?

And what effects of the dairy whey have?  and would we really notice that flavor enough that we have to have it in?


Thanks,
Marty

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2006, 11:45:44 AM »
Marty,

If you want to try to replicate a Donatos style dough, I would recommend using fresh eggs for now. It may later turn out that the eggs that Donatos uses are dried, but until then I would stick with fresh eggs. According to Tom Lehmann, you have to use above about 5% eggs by weight of flour in order to get a detectible flavor contribution from the eggs.

Assuming that you stay with the thickness factor 0.085 as set forth in the last Donatos dough clone formulation I posted, the dough weight (DW) for a 14" pizza comes to:

                          DW (14") = 3.14 x 7 x 7 x 0.085 = 13.08 ounces

The dried dairy whey is most likely included in the Donatos ingredients list to provide crust browning. Dried dairy whey is good for this purpose because it includes a fair amount of lactose, which is a form of sugar that is not metabolized by yeast, but promotes increased browning of the crust. Also, the lactose has a low sweetness factor so it doesn't contribute much in the way of sweetness to the finished crust. So, you get increased crust browning but little in the way of added sweetness. We still don't know what kind of flour Donatos uses, that is, all-purpose or bread flour, but if you use bread flour you may not need any dried dairy whey since the bread flour, with a fairly high protein level, will contribute to some browning of the finished crust.

Peter

Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2006, 12:02:17 PM »
Peter,

With out going out and getting eggs do you happen to know how may would take for 5% of 25 lbs of flour? ???
If I was to use less oil than what has been posted I should make it more light and cripsy wouldnt it?

I had plenty of crust browning with out the dairy whey.
Is there anything you dont know :chef:

And how do you know so much.  :o

I do appreciate your time and knowledge.

Thanks,
Marty

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2006, 02:07:19 PM »
Marty,

LOL. There's plenty that I don't know. That's why I selected "always learning" as my tag line and why I hang around the forum. The moment I think I know everything is when I don't know anything.

I wish I could tell you that I always enjoyed success with my pizza making. But, like many, I suffered my share of failures. I decided about a year or two before joining the forum to remedy that situation by learning as much as I could about pizza making--from books, endless searches on bread and pizza making on the internet, and from people like Tom Lehmann, whose many writings I read and reread and reread until I thought I understood what he was saying. And I also paid close attention to what our professional baker members said, like DINKS, Trinity and bakerboy, and on the Neapolitan side, what pizzanapoletana (Marco) said. Now we are fortunate to have Evelyne Slomon to teach us even more. I am sure that it helped that I have a technical background (although not in chemistry) and that I and am hard wired to rely on facts, evidence, detail, and cause and effect, rather than guessing and speculation. I also like working with numbers.

Now, back to your questions about the eggs and oil.

For eggs, I use the numbers that member DINKS provided in this post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2563.msg22215.html#msg22215 (Reply 5). So, if we assume that the contents of a standard large egg weighs 1.80 ounces, and you want to use 5% eggs for 25 pounds of flour, that comes to 0.05 x 25 x 16 = 20 ounces of eggs. At 1.80 ounces per egg, that comes to 20/1.80 = 11.11 eggs, or just shy of a dozen eggs. If you want greater accuracy, I would actually weigh the contents of one of your eggs and divide that number into 20 ounces. As pointed out in DINKS post, an egg can vary in weight based on age. Also, I have discovered that eggs vary from one supplier to another even when graded the same.

As for the oil, it can be used to produce two different types of crispiness. If you use a fair amount, the crust can have a tender, crispy character. When none is used, or very little, the crust can have a hard, crispy character, much like what one gets in making a classic French baguette that uses no oil and no sugar. I believe what Waz was looking for based on his expertise eating Donatos pizzas is a tender, crispy character with a center that is similar to an English muffin, by his description. The way I arrived at 3.5% oil was pretty straightforward. In the Donatos ingredients list, the oil falls in between the eggs and salt in the overall pecking order. Since we decided that eggs would represent about 8-10% by weight of flour, and since 1.7% is typical for salt, that meant that the oil would be less than 8-10% but more than 1.7%. So, to achieve the tender/crispy effect that Waz was looking for, I elected to use 3.5%.

Another factor to consider about crispiness is the character of the dough skin just prior to baking. To get increased crispiness, it is better to have a rather porous skin such that it acts as a insulator barrier to heat transfer through the pizza, allowing more time for the heat of the oven to drive off more moisture from the skin and produce a drier, more crispy crust. In the Donatos dough clone, the proofing of the skin creates a more porous structure. So, as long as the oven temperature and bake time are properly selected, the finished crust should have both the tender and crispy characteristics. At least that's the theory I am operating under.

Peter


Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #88 on: August 31, 2006, 05:25:47 PM »
Peter thanks alot.

Its funny when I started out I used no oil at all. But my pizza would come out very chewy like leather even more after it cooled down.

I also used no sugar, but felt they both needed to be in the dough to have a better tasting crust.  :-\

My pizza looks like what you see in my photo.

It is close to what donatos looks like, but I have inconsistency thats why I had some interest in this thread.

The eggs is the another thing that I had some interest in. I want a flavor that is different but very good. On the other hand the risk of using it and rather I had to let people know etc..

well I will keep experimenting

Thanks,
Marty

Offline Wazatron

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2006, 12:52:16 AM »
Hi guys! I've been pretty busy and have just been able to check out the thread here - tons of cool info!

Pete - to try and answer your questions a few posts back, about taste/texture when sampling Donatos again:

After having a number of clone pizzas it was nice to taste the real thing again. There is a more pronounced taste of 'egg' than I had previously wanted to state - the crust has a very rich taste to it, not bread-like at all.

That said I was actually even happier with our attempts, as we're very very close! There's still a certain flavor characteristic that I haven't been able to quite capture yet... all I can say is it tastes "richer" than my pizzas, whether thats from the egg/dairy content or a sauce characteristic that I haven't achieved yet, I'm just not sure.

I'm going to be pretty busy again for the next week or two, but I found a site where I can order some smoked provalone cheese, so as soon as I get the time I'm going to try again and try out the smoked provalone.

Pete - next time I'm in Columbus Ill have to get them to par-bake a pie for me and I'll express ship it to you!! haha  ;D

Marty - I'd love to try your pizza sometime! If you'd like, PM me and let me know where you are! It might be too far out of the way for my short trips back to Columbus most of the time, but I'd love to make it out sometime and sample the goods!!  :chef:


Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #90 on: September 07, 2006, 05:01:09 PM »
Hey guys,

I just tried donatos for the first time in about 10 years. Unfortunatly it wasnt as good as I remember it. :'(
It was very strong flavor of eggs in the crust as you both have suspected.  ;D

The pepperoni were about a 55 mm size, I belive it was a hormel product.
The top was dusted very heavy with what I belive to be a romano and oregano mix before the oven. I belive this is to help out with the grease (of course also to add flavor. :-D

 I have had alot of people say we taste close to Donatos, That is why this thread caught my interest. But we have also had people say it is close to Tommys, and hounddogs on campus. None of these I have tried myself so couldnt tell you if they are right.

Marty

Offline scott r

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2006, 08:32:21 PM »
wazatron,

I don't know if you already have the contact info for burnett dairy, but I know that it is a very popular brand of smoked provolone in the Ohio area.  The prices are fairly reasonable for delivery as well.  I have tried the cheese and it is excellent.

www.burnettdairy.com


I found out about this place from an owner of an Ohio pizzeria that uses this cheese exclusively.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #92 on: September 07, 2006, 11:41:44 PM »
Waz,

I revisited the ingredients list for the Donatos dough and don't see anything to suggest that the "richness" you recently noted is due to having omitted something from the ingredients list, unless it was more eggs than we have been using. So, that leads me to think that the sauce and/or cheese could be contributing that richness. You previously provided information that the Donatos pepperoni is a proprietary product that is made from lean meat (I believe it is 25 % leaner than other products). However, Ezzo, which is in the heart of Donatos country and surrounded by Donatos stores, makes the same claim. I don't know if Ezzo is a supplier to Donatos, but I am sure that Hormel or others with foodservice operations can supply whatever Donatos wants in its pepperoni products.

It's also possible that the particular brand of Provolone cheese that Donatos is using may be contributing richness to the Donatos pies. I use Provolone quite a bit in my pizzas and find it to be a rich tasting cheese.

Peter

Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2006, 11:31:49 AM »
Peter,

You are quit right Ezzo is a main supplier in this area they are based out of columbus.
And burrett cheese is a large supplier in this area as well. I didnt taste a very heavy smoked flavor when I tried it though. I will tell you that it is not grande.

Waz,
 if you would like when you are back in the columbus area and want to take a road trip I can get you some ezzo pepperoni. I know the main guy there. Next time I talk to him I will ask him if they are a supplier for donatos. I dont really want to call him up just to ask though. I golf with him now and then. Might make some good tee box talk. :-D

By the way the sauce I am almost 100% sure is a stanislaus product.

Marty

Offline scott r

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2006, 12:27:00 PM »
the burnett smoked provolone has the mildest smoke of the brands I have tried.  Subtle, but definitely an excellent flavor, and very popular in Ohio and parts of western Pennsylvania.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2006, 12:55:05 PM »
Marty,

As a pizza operator, you will certainly know more about pepperoni slice sizes than I, but if each slice is 55 mm. in diameter and about 100-105 of them are used on a typical 14" Donatos pie, I calculate that the total surface are of those slices is quite a bit greater than the entire surface area of the pie itself. If my math was right and the slices are indeed 55 mm., this would suggest that the slices overlap when placed on the pie or else there is considerable shrinkage during baking, or possibly some of each, although the shrinkage of the Donatos pepperoni shouldn't be excessive because of the leanness of the meats used to make the product. From some of the photos of Donatos pies I have seen, it didn't look like the slices overlapped all that much. I also wonder how thin the Donatos pepperoni slices are. I know that Donatos portion controls everything, so the 100-105 slices might equate to a smaller number if the slices are very thin.

Peter

Offline marty

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2006, 01:05:58 PM »
Peter,

They will shrink. :o

I use the 38 mm and you see in my photo what they look like after being baked they hve to use a larger and thinner one then us. I will guarantee they overlap them. We too have an extream pepperoni and put over 100 pepperoni on a 14" pizza pie. Not in this photo though.

Marty

Offline Erin

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2006, 11:06:58 PM »
Hello, gentlemen. Just stumbled onto pizzamaking.com for the first time after thinking that I should try to send less of my paycheck to Donato's. :-[

I do have a Donato's close by and have more than my fair share of their pizza. Seriously, the delivery driver actually knows me by name now. The Original and the Chicken-Vegy Medly are my favorites.

I would like to join in on the experiments to develop the clone. I think it will take a short while for me to get set up as I don't have some of the equipment and ingredients you've been mentioning. Before I go out to get tooled up, can someone confirm that this is the latest recipe for the clone of the crust:

•   Bread Flour - 202 g
•   Water – a tiny bit more than 1/3 cup (down from ½ cup)
•   Egg - .75 oz (up from .5 oz)
•   Vegetable oil – 1 ½ t (down from 1 ¾)
•   Salt – 5/8 t
•   Dried Dairy Whey – very full 1t
•   Nonfat dry milk – 2 ¼ t
•   Sugar ½ t
•   IDY 1/3 t

I looked through the entire thread and this is the last recipe I saw, but I thought I would double-check to be sure. I'm excited to try this, mainly because I love the Donato's and I'm looking forward to all the taste-testing.  ;)

Best to all,
-Erin


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2006, 09:35:57 AM »
Erin,

Welcome to the forum and to the Donatos challenge.

The last Donatos dough clone formulation I posted was at Reply 59 but I believe that the dough formulation you posted was essentially the one last used by Wazatron. Waz can correct me on this, but I think he may have used 0.81 ounces of egg rather than 0.75 ounces. The difference is too little to worry about, but I just wanted to be precise just in case the amount has to be adjusted again based on additional feedback. It's also possible that Waz used more flour than you listed because of the problems he was having with hydration.

You might also note that the dough formulation you posted was used at high elevation (around Denver). That is why I didn't adjust the formulation I posted at Reply 59. It was that formulation (at Reply 59) that I was hoping that someone at normal elevation would try. But it is up to you. You can try either, and your report on your results will be welcome. You are also invited to make any comments or observations you have at this point that you think will advance the effort. As you know, I have never had a Donatos pizza or even seen one in person before so I have to rely on proxies like Waz and you.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 10:26:16 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Wazatron

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Re: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe?
« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2006, 04:54:40 PM »
Hi everyone – I think it’s awesome that we have another new person to try the Donatos Challenge! Haha! Erin – with your familiarity with Donatos hopefully you can really help us hone in on the recipe and the sauce as well. For as “simple” as the ingredient list is for the sauce it’s been hard for me to get right on.

Marty – I’ve actually tried Ezzo pepperoni! I was able to find some online and ordered a big stick of the stuff. While it was really awesome pepperoni, I thought it was pretty far off of Donatos’ pepperoni. It had that nice “crater” effect and was pretty small in diameter and also was pretty oily. It tasted similar to other high-end brands I’ve tried, like Boars Head and Margarita. So far the regular old Hormel stuff they sell at Kroger’s has been the closest. Though I haven’t found any brand that makes a “lean” version (that isn’t turkey or something) that Donatos supposedly uses (which is how they get away with over 100 pepperoni on a large pizza without getting an oily mess). I actually tried to get some more information on various pepperoni types I could try on another thread, but so far I’ve not gotten any replies.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1822.100.html

That’s too bad Donatos wasn’t as good as you remembered, but I’ve heard that from a few people. I’ve been eating it so long I’ve not really noticed if it has changed substantially over the years, though I’m sure it’s had to as they’ve grown.

I’ve also had Tommy’s and Hounddogs a number of times as well. While both good pizza’s, I’d have to say Tommy’s is head and shoulders better than Hounddogs. Tommy’s is actually my 2nd favorite pizza shop in Columbus, so if your pizza tastes like their then you’re in good shape! :) I’m actually interested in trying to make a Tommy’s-type pizza but that’ll have to wait for another thread. Haha. 

Also, now that you've had Donatos, how did your home-clone pizza compare? Do you feel the pizza came close to cloning Donatos?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 07:57:42 PM by Wazatron »


 

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