Author Topic: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )  (Read 3431 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2013, 12:24:12 PM »
1. What EXACT caputo 00" flour do you recommend and why ( a link/pic would be nice )

Caputo Pizzeria which can be purchased in a 25kg blue bag that says “PIZZERIA” or in a 1kg red bag that says “The Chef’s Flour”

http://www.molinocaputo.it//index.php?module=ecommerce&modulePage=dettaglio&id=5
http://www.molinocaputo.it//index.php?module=ecommerce&modulePage=dettaglio&id=19


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2. What is the difference between Red and Blue Caputo 00"
Only thing I have heard or found just as " La Sera" has said is that the red needs to be mixed.


In this case, “red” refers to Caputo ‘00’ Rinforzato. We shouldn’t refer to Caputo as red or blue, we should call it Pizzeria or Rinforzato (or whatever other variety we are talking about). Rinforzato: http://www.molinocaputo.it//index.php?module=ecommerce&modulePage=dettaglio&id=11

Flour is a lot more complicated than simply the protein% and the milling (such as ‘00’). There are a whole host of rheological properties – most of which are well beyond the scope of discussion here.

To understand the difference between Pizzeria and Rinforzato, realize that all protein in flour is not the same. When it comes to protein, there is quantity and quality. “Higher quality” proteins are stronger. Two flours with the same protein quantity (%) may perform very differently. A flour’s “W” is a measurement of how strong it is – the breaking strength of the dough in a controlled experiment. You can read more about it here: http://publications.hgca.com/publications/documents/exports/BCE_Chopin_Alveograph_Guide.pdf

Rinforzato is English means reinforced. As the name implies, it is a stronger flour meaning it has a higher “W.”  Rinforzato is sometimes blended with another flour such as Pizzeria. This would be done to increase the strength of the flour to something stronger than Pizzeria but not as strong as Rinforzato, but it is not necessary per se. For very long fermentations (likely cold) you might want to use straight Rinforzato.

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Also "tlcraig" stated that the red "chefs flour" is the same as the blue pizzeria flour. Why sell different kinds if the same. besides the price?

It’s just marketing – the 1kg red “Chef’s” bag is a retail product whereas the 25kg blue Pizzeria bag is a foodservice product.

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3. Rinforzato which has a higher W, what does that mean exactly? why choose this one ( newbie, not hip to the lingo yet )

See above.

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4. If it is the red choice ( Rinforzato or chefs flour ) does it need to be mixed and if so with what
 

I’d be very surprised if straight Caputo Pizzeria would not meet all your needs.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline TXCraig1

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Pizza is not bread.

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2013, 07:38:41 PM »
There is more than one Caputo in a red bag. The red 1kg "chef's" 00 is the same as the 25kg blue pizzeria flour, but there is also 25kg Caputo 00 Rinforzato which has a higher W and also comes in a red bag.

Craig are you sure Rinforzato has a higher "W" factor than Pizzeria flour? Captuo's data show the "W" for both as "280-320". Also the data show both having "12.5%" protein. the 12.5% protein in Rinforzato and Pizzeria flour isn't strictly just about gluten making proteins. Correct me if I'm wrong, The 12.5% presents both gluten & non-gluten making proteins which include  protein based enzymes. The QUALITY of the portion of the 12.5% set aside for gluten making proteins makes a huge difference as you or somebody else pointed out.  I use Rinforzato regularly in summers <<when hot>> using room temperature. Caputo website disagrees but IMHO Rinforzato results in mediocre napoletana dough when fermented in fridge. It already requires a long time of warm fermentation as it is. Using several days of cold fermentation doesn't make sense <<to me>>. In Naples I was told that Rinforzato was a main flour for pizza napoletana long before Caputo Pizzeria flour <<requiring less warm fermentation time>> was introduced to the market. Rinfozato flour still has many useful applications

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2013, 10:58:22 PM »
Craig are you sure Rinforzato has a higher "W" factor than Pizzeria flour? Captuo's data show the "W" for both as "280-320". Also the data show both having "12.5%" protein. the 12.5% protein in Rinforzato and Pizzeria flour isn't strictly just about gluten making proteins. Correct me if I'm wrong, The 12.5% presents both gluten & non-gluten making proteins which include  protein based enzymes. The QUALITY of the portion of the 12.5% set aside for gluten making proteins makes a huge difference as you or somebody else pointed out.  I use Rinforzato regularly in summers <<when hot>> using room temperature. Caputo website disagrees but IMHO Rinforzato results in mediocre napoletana dough when fermented in fridge. It already requires a long time of warm fermentation as it is. Using several days of cold fermentation doesn't make sense <<to me>>. In Naples I was told that Rinforzato was a main flour for pizza napoletana long before Caputo Pizzeria flour <<requiring less warm fermentation time>> was introduced to the market. Rinfozato flour still has many useful applications

I don't know. I've seen the sheets you're referring to. I've also seen the numbers shown differently as in the link above. It makes no sense to me that they would be the same.  I've never been able to get a spec sheet from the Caputo website. Have you been able to get them/see them there? If so, how are you doing it? When I click on the spec links, nothing happens.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2013, 11:45:34 PM »
I don't know. I've seen the sheets you're referring to. I've also seen the numbers shown differently as in the link above. It makes no sense to me that they would be the same.  I've never been able to get a spec sheet from the Caputo website. Have you been able to get them/see them there? If so, how are you doing it? When I click on the spec links, nothing happens.

I have the official caputo spec sheets which Omid emailed me. but I don't know how to upload them here. I'll ask him to do it if possible. He was the one who actually introduced me to Rinforzato flour.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2013, 12:15:05 AM »
Get a bunch of sample bags and try them.  Until you use them up, those data sheets are meaningless.  You can't design a good pizza on paper or in CAD, you have to have flour in the hair on your head and no hair left up to your elbows.

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2013, 04:16:51 AM »
I have the official caputo spec sheets which Omid emailed me. but I don't know how to upload them here. I'll ask him to do it if possible. He was the one who actually introduced me to Rinforzato flour.

I am sorry, I just noticed your post in this thread, where I assume you wanted me to post the rheological and chemical properties of:

1. Caputo '00' Rinforzato Rosso,
2. Caputo '00' Pizzeria, and
3. Caputo '00' Extra

(Click on the images to magnify them)
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2013, 04:19:54 AM »
I do not understand why the above images are blurry. ???
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2013, 10:51:45 AM »
It is because they are shrunken, Omid.  If you click on the image, it enlarges and is not blurry.

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: How to create an authentic Neapolitan pie ( sauce, dough, toppings )
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 04:11:52 PM »
Thought everyone knew about shrinkage.


 

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