Author Topic: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started  (Read 9497 times)

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Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2013, 01:12:04 PM »
There was no luck involved in your situation Walter, just an incredible man and who saw the upside in a bunch of incredible kids that others fail to see.  What you do is so awesome.

shuboyje:  Thanks!  I have to do what I do.  What else could I do- let these kids rot?  Death awaits us so why not do something meaningfull?  I can't believe I get paid so well with great hours/vacations, full benefits, and retirement.  My dream is others will discover a passion in their hearts to help those that didn't ask to be born with a mind that doesn't function the right way for how our society operates via starting businesses to employ them in meaningful ways.  I am glad I never made it big financially in my life. That temptation must be hard to ignore.  Like Lou Gerigh said on his yankee stadium speech " Today I feel I am the luckiest man alive".     Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:23:22 PM by waltertore »


Online norma427

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2013, 01:18:06 PM »
There was no luck involved in your situation Walter, just an incredible man and who saw the upside in a bunch of incredible kids that others fail to see.  What you do is so awesome.

I agree Jeff!  Walter is an incredible man.

Norma
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Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2013, 01:21:22 PM »
I agree Jeff!  Walter is an incredible man.

Norma

thanks Norma and you inspire me that if and when my current gig ends a small shop awaits that will carry on my work with pizza, the disabled, and who knows what else! Walter

Online Aimless Ryan

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2013, 05:19:45 PM »
I love when you talk sh#t about central Ohio pizza, Walter, as well as when you sorta make fun of the people who love it, because you're right. I've lived here my whole life and I'd say you hit the nail on the head. However, as you've indicated, the people who love that crap are right, too; more right than Scott or anyone else who actually knows how to make an infinitely better pizza.

If you want to try by far the worst pizza I've ever had, go to Hound Dog's on North High Street in Clintonville (at Ackerman, I think). Conventional wisdom says even bad pizza is pretty good, but I could not eat the leftovers from this place. It was so disgusting. But this place seems to be doing great, as it has grown considerably over the last couple decades. Blows my mind.

As much as I value Scott's NY style expertise, I can say pretty confidently that if Scott opened a pizzeria in central Ohio, he probably wouldn't be in business very long unless he made the conscious decision to compromise his priciples and offer crappy pizza made of crappy ingredients, that goes through a sheeter and a conveyor and takes no skill or knowledge to create, because that's what pizza is to most central Ohioans. There is some accidentally good pizza around here (not NY style) if you show up at certain places at the right time. But if you do get something good in central Ohio, it's probably a total accident because no one actually knows what they're doing. They just do what they've been told to do by someone who never really knew any more than what someone else once told them to do.

Also, Walter, I like how you often point out the subjectivity of so many different things. Man, I could go on all day about some of this stuff. Can't wait to visit your class and meet you and your students.

To the people who have been arguing about whatever: You're all right and you're all wrong. It's fun reading it, and I'm glad the harmless arguing has been allowed to continue.

Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 05:37:43 PM »
I love when you talk sh#t about central Ohio pizza, Walter, as well as when you sorta make fun of the people who love it, because you're right. I've lived here my whole life and I'd say you hit the nail on the head. However, as you've indicated, the people who love that crap are right, too; more right than Scott or anyone else who actually knows how to make an infinitely better pizza.

If you want to try by far the worst pizza I've ever had, go to Hound Dog's on North High Street in Clintonville (at Ackerman, I think). Conventional wisdom says even bad pizza is pretty good, but I could not eat the leftovers from this place. It was so disgusting. But this place seems to be doing great, as it has grown considerably over the last couple decades. Blows my mind.

As much as I value Scott's NY style expertise, I can say pretty confidently that if Scott opened a pizzeria in central Ohio, he probably wouldn't be in business very long unless he made the conscious decision to compromise his priciples and offer crappy pizza made of crappy ingredients, that goes through a sheeter and a conveyor and takes no skill or knowledge to create, because that's what pizza is to most central Ohioans. There is some accidentally good pizza around here (not NY style) if you show up at certain places at the right time. But if you do get something good in central Ohio, it's probably a total accident because no one actually knows what they're doing. They just do what they've been told to do by someone who never really knew any more than what someone else once told them to do.

Also, Walter, I like how you often point out the subjectivity of so many different things. Man, I could go on all day about some of this stuff. Can't wait to visit your class and meet you and your students.

To the people who have been arguing about whatever: You're all right and you're all wrong. It's fun reading it, and I'm glad the harmless arguing has been allowed to continue.

Hi Ryan:  Thanks for note!  When I left NJ as a teen to travel in search of my musical dreams I was so hell bent opinionated on what is good pizza that I scared a lot of people.  I eventually got to the point that I would just say simply- this stuff isn't pizza but whatever it is more power to you for making, it eating it, and liking it  (but I still ain't gonna eat it :)).  Nowadays after 40 years of world travels and residencies, I appreciate regional foods from a cultural and historical perspective.  The food we experience as children leaves an almost unforgettable imprint and such a strong desire to recreate it that most times it will always be ones "best food".  One of my old bandmates is now running the recording engineering program at OSU.  He told me of a place on high street that makes an ok pizza.  I forget the name.  He is food conisour having lived around the world including many years in NYC.  I met a couple pizzeria guys a few weeks ago at RD in Columbus.  They saw my cart and we got to talking pizza.  They were asking me what flour to buy!  As we talked they shared their proccess(what you described in your post).  I told them how I do it and they said they have a couple old deck ovens in their back room but nobody has a clue as to how to use them.  One thing I do wonder is this.  Newark OH was founded by people from Newark NJ.   So why didn't they bring their food palate with them?  I think if I opened a small shop in Columbus in the short north it might survive?  I am not that familiar with Columbus but a friend was working at Rigsbys and that food was good.  He brought me a loaf of their bread and it was top shelf.  I really wonder sometimes what would happen with a small pizzeria in the right location, one size pie, very few toppings, and a 1 meal item a day like meatloaf, eggplant parm, lasagna, spaghetti/meatballs.  That would be it.  Open 4 days a week with my pizza, those diner items, and thats it.  I look forward to meeting you.  We have an order for 30 pies tomorrow.  That is about all we can handle due to the other stuff we make and getting it delivered. Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 06:13:16 PM by waltertore »

Online Aimless Ryan

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2013, 06:37:01 PM »
I assume Newark, Ohio existed before Newark, NJ had pizza. I've unintentionally learned a lot about Newark lately.

The person you mentioned sounds a lot like Brian L. Were you talking about a Brian L.?

Several years ago I was very interested in doing pizza in the Short North, largely because if you walk down High Street at the right time, it kinda feels like you're walking down 6th Av in NYC (Greenwich Village, I guess), and there's a lot of potential lunch business if you can find a way to reach people working in the skyscrapers downtown. It feels like a city neighborhood, rather than a suburb. There is nowhere else in Columbus like that, because metro Columbus is made up of suburbs and lame mega shopping destinations like Easton, rather than neighborhoods. (But I do like Grandview, and I'd love to put all the loser Grandview pizza joints out of business by opening yet another pizza joint in pizza-saturated Grandview.) I've always liked the Short North because I used to be an artsy/musician type. Also, in the Short North there's so much potential for catering business downtown. That could be a goldmine if you do it right.

Nowadays, though, I don't know how I feel about the Short North. Columbus consumers are not very bright, especially when it comes to food; more especially when it comes to pizza food. In Columbus it's all about marketing and maybe who you know. I'd like to think great food could sell in a city full of very bad food, yet it never fails to amaze me what people around here consider good pizza. Could be worse. Could be Cincinnati (which does have some really good, unique food, like Cincinnati-style chili). The problem with Cincinnati is that the people there are insanely loyal to certain local stuff, even if it's horrible (like La Rosa's pizza).

Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2013, 08:20:37 PM »
Ryan:  You are right about pizzerias in Newark NJ when Newark OH was founded but there are a lot of Italians here and I figure like my mothers family who came from Italy, made stuff at home that rivaled and usually surpassed any official eatery, and eventually turned it into restaurants and bakeries.  The short north does make me feel like I am in a small neighborhood in a big city.   I like the vibe there but only have been there a few times.   I don't know Brian L.  I do believe in Columbus a good pizzeria could make it with the right location/cause.  Because I work with special needs people we get a lot of business just for that.   2 of my friends that have small artisan like operations here in Granville tried to get contracts with Denison University's new food vendor Bon Appetit.  I was the only one to get a contract.  We do make better food than anybody around here and that coupled with the cause makes us a good fit for most places that have a high public profile.  I would have no interest in opening my own place unless I employed disabled people.  That makes it all worth while.  To see them happy and have meaning in their lives is what it is about.   The pizza and baked goods are just stuff.   

 I have no idea how long my program will survive.  I am a lone wolf in the educational system of our county and for reasons beyond my comprehension  Newark City Schools sees what I see.   Our operationg budget from the district is 0 and we have to turn a profit at the end of each year or we are done.  We will not fold  due to money.  We are making more than any club in the school district including athletics and band.  What may eventually kill it will be due to the ever increasing insanity of our educational lawmakers.   They are continually pushing students like mine into academic based instruction even though they are working at the 1-3rd grade levels and 18 years old.   There are no academic based jobs for this skill level but that is where it is going more every year.  This year my students are out for 1 period for academics and the goal is to increase this more each year to meet federal guidelines.  If the district doesn't there will be no funding. 

I met with the school to work director of the Licking County Dept of Developmental Disabilities last week .   Federal laws have eliminated taxpayer funded programs that create money making operations that consist of workplaces that are maned totally by special needs people with "normal" people supervising and creating the work.   Now it will all be done in competitive workplaces in the community.  In other words they will now have to work in places you and I compete for jobs.   In theory this is great but in reality our system is based on cold hard no accomodations competiton and thus will result in even more unemployed special needs people.  Can you see business owners hiring special needs people and the work not getting done right and them simply saying "that is OK I really don't need to eat, have a home, I can lose it all for the cause". 

 If I go private it will not include government money programs in any shape or form.    Anyway, I know I can make it work because I know how to work with these people.  The average person is clueless and will most likely never hire any disabled person. The few that do will often do so because they have a special needs person in their life.  Forced integration is the new thing.  Yet my students enjoy the company of their disabled peers much more than their non disabled peers because they have very little to nothing in common with each other.   Crazy world we live in.  We try to hid our shames with fancy laws that on paper look great but in reality keep the disabled more and more isolated and hopeless. 

The cool news is good  food conquers everything.   That is what we do with The Smiling With Hope Bakery :) Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 08:41:31 PM by waltertore »

Online scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2013, 08:09:08 AM »
If I was to open a pizzeria on my terms here, with quality of ingredients I currently use the price would put me out of business before I started.  Very few would pay 12-15 dollars for an 18"  cheese pie.

Walter, I think you've proven, without any shadow of a doubt, that if you sold the pizza you're currently making on a retail level, you would clean up. I spend most of my waking hours either helping people make circa 1980 NY style pizzas or trying to talk people into making them  ;D  The golden age of NY pizza ran, in my best estimate, from 1960 to around 1990, so the pizza you're emulating, circa 1970 NY style pizza, is part of that same hallowed canon, and, imo, just as monumentally profitable- in any part of the nation (and many parts of the world).

The pizza I'm emulating is from a very specific pizzeria, so we're not creating exactly the same pies, but that's the beauty of 1960-1990 NY area pizza- it's all good. You grew up about 20 minutes away from me, but, from a pizza perspective, we're brothers. We're cut from the same cloth. We've been to the mountaintop  ;D

I don't really care where you're located in the U.S., if you're selling the pizza of our youth, you're making a bundle.

Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »
Walter, I think you've proven, without any shadow of a doubt, that if you sold the pizza you're currently making on a retail level, you would clean up. I spend most of my waking hours either helping people make circa 1980 NY style pizzas or trying to talk people into making them  ;D  The golden age of NY pizza ran, in my best estimate, from 1960 to around 1990, so the pizza you're emulating, circa 1970 NY style pizza, is part of that same hallowed canon, and, imo, just as monumentally profitable- in any part of the nation (and many parts of the world).

The pizza I'm emulating is from a very specific pizzeria, so we're not creating exactly the same pies, but that's the beauty of 1960-1990 NY area pizza- it's all good. You grew up about 20 minutes away from me, but, from a pizza perspective, we're brothers. We're cut from the same cloth. We've been to the mountaintop  ;D

I don't really care where you're located in the U.S., if you're selling the pizza of our youth, you're making a bundle.

Thanks for all that support Scott!  Coming from a Jersey brother that is special.  NYC has forever put us down as a wasteland but IMO food here easily rivals NYC stuff and for 1/2 the price and no NYC parking hassles.  I think the Essex County area is the tops in rivaling NYC for food.  When I was living there Newark was still a vibrant Italian place and we went there all the time for food and supplies.   Are you in Essex up in Morristown or is that Morris County?   This set up I have now is mostly mass produced, handmade baked goods, that we sell to schools and Denison Univ.  The pizza thing is a sideline unfortunately but that is a good thing because today we had an order for 30 pies and it really made it a serious workout morning.  We did the 30 in about an n hour hour 1/2 (16"- 6 to a deck, temp cranked to 650).  Not bad IMO considering it was just me and my special education student/asst. manager Paige.   It brings back memories of home seeing those boxes on top of the ovens staying warm.   I just ate my 2 pieces for lunch ( I eat 2 a day of cheese) and they came out pretty darn good considering I have principals walking in with "must answer my questions now", and 14 of my students making cookies, dog biscuits, wash, dishes, and all the stuff you do in a bakery.   Keeping my eyes on all this and the pies makes it a challenge with such a large order.  But it is a good high as I type this on my lunch break.  I figure if I ever open my own pizzeria it will be a breeze just making dough and pies.  These blodgett 1000's are great ovens and I will take them everywhere I go.   They can bury me in one!  Walter
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 12:53:11 PM by waltertore »

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2013, 08:18:57 PM »
Walter,
 Your a riot!!! I am old school. and that was hilarious! Hey who's that in the oven, Oh thats's Walter! HAHAHAA, classic!
I would hang with you anytime and definitely Scott. I probably would burst a lung or two laughing!

on a serious note, you rock man with the kids and all, really cool!!!
NY style as Scott mentioned will never die, it's just too darn good!!!!

Still working on funding for the pizzeria with the blodgetts I mentioned. Man, banks are real tough today!!!

I have great credit, 19 years biz history and the bank said no to a recent loan appl since I haven't shown profits. Well who the hell does in these times, uncle sam isn't looking out for me!

Applied to a NJ small biz loan, we shall see.

Later!
Chuck



Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2013, 06:06:02 PM »
Chuck: Hopefully someday I will be sitting at your pizzeria someday sharing a pie with you and Scott!  I get back to NJ every year or so.  Walter

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2013, 11:18:04 PM »
Walter,
         Mi casa su casa!! Anytime, I will let you know when it happens.
 And way to go with Paige and the kids! YOU SHOULD BE VERY PROUD BECAUSE YOU HELPED MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THERE LIVES AND THAT MY FRIEND IS SPECIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chuck

Online waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2013, 05:52:49 AM »
Thanks Chuck!  Walter

Online scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2013, 11:45:10 AM »
Chuck: Hopefully someday I will be sitting at your pizzeria someday sharing a pie with you and Scott!

Count me in! :)

Chuck, I don't envy your search for financing.  Hopefully the state will come through for you.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2013, 01:57:46 PM »
When Sam De Lorenzo decided to open De Lorenzo's Tomato Pies in Robbinsville, NJ, after working all of his life at his father's and mother's place on Hudson St. in Trenton that had been around since 1947, and with great success, he went in search of a loan. As is discussed on page 33 of the article at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/DTP-MidNJMag-June-2013.pdf, Sam was turned down by two large banks. His loan was finally approved by Yardville Bank. So, it looks like getting financing is not a sure thing, even when there is a proven track record of success.

Peter

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2013, 03:45:53 PM »
Pete,
     So true, its a damn shame. Sort of why this country has a problem rebuilding with small biz.

  no more loyalty in this country anymore!

  I will figure out a way but deals move on the longer I wait for a loan.

   having enough working capital is extremely important today.

Thnks

Chuck
 

Offline PizzaNJ

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2013, 01:09:00 AM »
I spend most of my waking hours either helping people make circa 1980 NY style pizzas or trying to talk people into making them  ;D  The golden age of NY pizza ran, in my best estimate, from 1960 to around 1990, so the pizza you're emulating, circa 1970 NY style pizza, is part of that same hallowed canon, and, imo, just as monumentally profitable- in any part of the nation (and many parts of the world).

I'm afraid this is going to be off topic, but Scott123 have you ever taught classes for at home pizza makers?

Online scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2013, 09:29:16 AM »
I'm afraid this is going to be off topic, but Scott123 have you ever taught classes for at home pizza makers?

I have. If you want further information, rather than derail this topic any further, feel free to contact me via PM.

Offline Auralnauts

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2013, 03:38:44 PM »
My, my. So much arguing in this thread. OP simply wated a recipe for commercial dough. It seems as if many of you have the attitude that "I know better than you because of _____".

OP, most commercial scale dough recipes are quite simple, if you want to get a dough recipe, get the simple 50 pound flour, 2 liters of water, and yeast and begin to experiment. I also agree with what Scott said. Don't get used to stretching only 1 pizzerias dough, as dough can differ.

Lots of respect for you Scott. Keep doing what you do.
Dough, stretch, sauce, cheese; check.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2013, 10:23:47 AM »
to the op

If I was to give you one piece of advice....the piece that i know would yield the biggest reward.....is this.....get a job a the best pizza place you can find.  Travel as far as you have to..but work in a commercial enviornment.   Others have started with no experience beyond home baking....but those are, by far, the minority.  So many things are different in the commercial world.  And some other guy posted correctly...most chefs who start making pizza think its easy.  And truthfully, it is.....if you make one pizza at a time.  If you bake at a nice comfortable pace.  BUt, if youre pizzeria is going to be successful, most of your baking will be at breakneck spead.

Prep work and work flow are just as important in a commercial setting as is the dough recipe.  You can have all your recipes down pat, but if you are unable to meet the demand with a product that is on time and consistant.....it won't matter much.  And those are aspects of pizza making that you can't master in a home setting.

Thats it.  Find a job, even if you work for minimum wage, in a great place , work as much as you can...doing everything they ask....concentrate, remember.  I would put in at least a year (i spent 4) of steady learning into it.

Good luck man....if you stay in this business, owning your own if really the only way to go....with a few exceptions.