Author Topic: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started  (Read 12076 times)

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Offline lennyk

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2013, 10:35:30 PM »
Excellent words there.
Pizza is certainly one of those things many people will say
"I had a great pizza at so and so place" just like steak lovers will say about their favorite steakhouse.


Offline La Sera

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2013, 12:16:04 AM »
Ah, you are a pizza consultant! Hahaha! I knew there had to be an angle here.

A religious experience? Oh, for heaven's sake.

Talk about irony. You wrote nothing but marketing boilerplate phrase after phrase in your screed against marketing. I'm sure some people fall for that nonsense, but it doesn't work with me. How old do you think I am, 12?

Why is it that every pizza consultant I've know is a failed owner/manager or driver?

fini

scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2013, 12:58:49 AM »
Tom Lehmann is a pizza consultant.  Are you really going to insinuate that the reason he became a consultant is that he couldn't hack it as an owner?

You made a lot of money selling McPizza to the Japanese. Big wup.  You think that gives you the right to preach the unimportance of dough?

Say what you want about me, but you're crossing a line by taking pot shots at the immensely knowledgeable pizza consultants on this forum- of which NONE are a failed owner/manager/driver.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 04:09:05 AM by scott123 »

Offline La Sera

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2013, 04:14:01 AM »
You should read more carefully.

I don't know Tom Lehmann. I don't know you. You're just someone on the internet.

I never said dough was unimportant.

McPizza? I use flour that costs $110 per 25 kg bag, cheese imported from Italy, Italian tomatoes and only the freshest ingredients.

I'm not going to respond any more.

scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2013, 06:17:28 AM »
I never said dough was unimportant.

An inexpensive, plain, slightly oily dough with delicious cheese and toppings will outsell expensive, delicious dough with cheap, plain toppings every day.



Dough is just a base for American-style pizza.

Dough is the pizza for Neapolitan and some other styles.

Any normally intelligent person can learn to make basic New York dough. It isn't rocket science. A great combination of topping flavors, the cooking process and oven handling take a little more thought and practice.

Knowing your way around a kitchen makes a product. Knowing how to market, manage and hire makes a business.

Maybe I'm not reading this carefully enough, but it seems to me that you're saying that dough deserves less focus than toppings, baking and oven handling, which, in turn, deserve less attention than marketing, management and hiring. You didn't come out and say "dough is unimportant," but you seem to be going to great lengths to downplay it's relative importance compared to other factors in the pizzeria equation.  To me, by saying that all these things are more important than dough, you're implying that dough is unimportant.

McPizza isn't about money. Anyone can spend huge sums on flour and toppings.  Very few people can master dough making.  I know I haven't.  But I do understand how vastly complex it is and strive to eventually fully understand it. Dough is the single element that separates fast food pizza from art.  Once you fall into the trap of thinking dough is simple, that dough is relatively easy, you're no longer creating art, you're selling a commodity- McPizza.

FWIW,  you may make phenomenal pizza.  It's rare, but some people are able to master dough with very little thought.  You could be part of this group.  Your overwhelming success seems to point to being able to do something right. When you questioned my motives and insulted my friends/profession, I reached for the first thing I could come up with- a low blow in return for another.  I do feel, though, that by downplaying the significance of dough, that, even if you're not making McPizza, you might be preaching the merits of a McPizza frame of mind.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:32:55 AM by scott123 »

Online shuboyje

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2013, 09:40:48 AM »

Why is it that every pizza consultant I've know is a failed owner/manager or driver?


From the tone of your posts over the last few years I would classify you as a failed owner.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
-Jeff

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2013, 10:44:41 AM »
Most everyone on this forum is a pizza fanatic.  This really represents a very small % of our country's pizza eaters.  Most of the USA eats fast food pizza and love not only it, but the price.  To get well known depends where your shop is located in regards to using only word of mouth to make it happen.  If you live in a food center where people actively seek out food they enjoy and price isn't the bottom line, word of mouth works great.  It will work so great that advertising would be like throwing money down the drain.  I grew up in such a place and since have lived/traveled the USA extensively and have been shocked at how bad, IMO, most restaraunt food is. If you live in an area that is mostly impoverished, and bottom line is price over quality, then advertising can make you millions.  I live in such an area and the papers and mailbox is full of coupons for 2 for 1's and such.  These places are packed.  The small mom and pop pizzerias here turn out such a, IMO, bad product that if that stuff was all there was for pizza left on this earth, I would never eat pizza again.   The village I live in is mostly 6 figure plus incomes and is 6 miles from my workplace.  It is also 35 miles from Columbus and is an island of education and affluence.  There are only 3,000 residents, and 2,000 Denison Univ students here.  That is not enough to sustain a vibrant food scene.  Places come and go so quick in our village it is shocking.  All turn out medicore at best food.  The long term survivors are 2 pizzerias that put out a product that makes dominos and little ceasar look pretty good.   Anyway, I say follow your dreams and it will always work out.  My place is thriving beyond our capicity.  I need more freezer space to store our bagels and cookies but our room is too small for another freezer. I  am going to  have to ask the cafeteria manager on our campus if we can use some of their walk in freezer space.  I found a nitch with teaching special education and selling to schools/universities/county run programs.  If I was to open a pizzeria on my terms here, with quality of ingredients I currently use the price would put me out of business before I started.  Very few would pay 12-15 dollars for an 18"  cheese pie.  Even though they are affluent, they have been raised here with the low cost, and IMO, bad food.  But that is their palate and who am I to say it isn't legit?  Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 10:49:21 AM by waltertore »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2013, 12:26:13 PM »
Walter,

As you know, I have been helping Norma with her efforts to produce a clone of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville tomato pies. As part of the background research, we inevitably ended up studying the De Lorenzo/Hudson Street operation. That operation was an eye opener. It was open only four days a week, Thursdays through Sundays, from 4-9 PM. It did no advertising. It had no printed menu, no delivery and I believe that it only sold pizzas. Their "silverware" was cheap plastic counterparts. It did not accept credit or debit cards. The shop was small (55 seats) and could not handle large crowds, which meant that there were usually long lines of patrons outside of the shop waiting their turn to go inside. There was no parking. They didn't even have a restroom (they were grandfathered in). The tomato pies were made by Gary Amico and his son Sam, until Sam left to start the Robbinsville location, and Gary's wife Eileen worked the cash register (an antique register with push buttons). Orders were recorded using pencil and paper. One of the nice features, however, was their BYOB policy.

Yet, they made exceptional pizza, with high quality ingredients. And they were in business from 1947 until they closed in January, 2012. The reason given for the closure was the advancing ages of Gary and Eileen but the truer reason was that the area had become beset with crime, and their patrons started having reservations about going to the pizzeria as a result.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 03:01:50 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2013, 12:48:20 PM »
Walter,

As you know, I have been helping Norma with her efforts to produce a clone of the De Lorenzo/Robbinsville tomato pies. As part of the background research, we inevitably ended up studying the De Lorenzo/Hudson Street operation. That operation was an eye opener. It was open only four days a week, Thursdays through Sundays, from 4-9 PM. It did no advertising. It had no menu, and I believe that it only sold pizzas. Their "silverware" was cheap plastic counterparts. It did not accept credit or debit cards. The shop was small and could not handle large crowds, which meant that there were usually long lines of patrons outside of the shop waiting their turn to go inside. There was no parking. They didn't even have a restroom (they were grandfathered in). The tomato pies were made by Gary Amico and his son Sam, until Sam left to start the Robbinsville location, and Gary's wife Eileen worked the cash register (an antique register with push buttons). Orders were recorded using pencil and paper. One of the nice features, however, was their BYOB policy.

Yet, they made exceptional pizza, with high quality ingredients. And they were in business from 1947 until they closed in January, 2012. The reason given for the closure was the advancing ages of Gary and Eileen but the truer reason was that the area had become beset with crime, and their patrons started having reservations about going to the pizzeria as a result.

Peter

Peter: That is a great example of the being in the right place at the right time with the right product and like everything has a lifecycle.   Star Tavern in Orange NJ is much like the Delorenzo scenario.  It has been in the same location for over 50 years but the neighborhood has gone to ghetto and for some reason the place continues to draw big time.  I think it thrives because it is surrounded by affluent towns that are a mile to a few miles away, prices are affordable to the lower income people in the neighborhood, has a bar, an attached parking lot, and on Wed nights in the winter they offer cheese pies for like $5 on eat in.   Take away the parking lot and they might not survive long. 

I helped my friend start a bagel business here recently.  He got way into it and found a location out in the country that let him live rent free.  It was a horse barn (high end one) with a couple apts on top.  He fed the horses and got free rent.  They let him buy a deck oven and install it in the barn and was on the verge of getting a home/cottage baking license and then was going to start looking at commercial spaces in a year or so.  He was well on track with getting customers/farmers markets set up and was making a really good boiled NYC style bagel.  Then the smoke alarms starting going off in the barn from the oven heat and the owners made him stop. Now he is out of business before really getting going. He is not returning my calls and I feel he is in a deep sadness over it all.   It is all about timing most time.   I know I got lucky with my set up but in defense I have been working at this goal for almost 20 years with more failures, battles that have resulted in exhaustion with trying to keep a similar(smaller scale than I have now) thing going including suing the school district I was in, and moving to 3 different states, to see it finally come to pass.  Yeah for OHIO!  How long will it last?  I have no idea but am enjoying the each moment.   This is why I say follow your dreams because they will always come to pass if you truly follow them blindly.   I hope someday to open a place like Delorenzo's if and when my thing gets dismantled.  My wife will run the register, take orders, do the books, and I will hire 1-2 of my former students.  That with my old blodgett ovens and I will be die a happy man.  The only thing I would like to see added is a bathroom :)  Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:04:46 PM by waltertore »


Online shuboyje

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2013, 01:04:01 PM »
There was no luck involved in your situation Walter, just an incredible man and who saw the upside in a bunch of incredible kids that others fail to see.  What you do is so awesome.


Peter: That is a great example of the being in the right place at the right time with the right product and like everything has a lifecycle.   Star Tavern in Orange NJ is much like the Delorenzo scenario.  It has been in the same location for over 50 years but the neighborhood has gone to ghetto and for some reason the place continues to draw big time.  I think because it is surrounded by affluent towns that are a mile to a few miles away.   I helped my friend start a bagel business here recently.  He got way into it and found a location out in the country that let him live rent free.  It was a horse barn (high end one) with a couple apts on top.  He fed the horses and got free rent.  They let him buy a deck oven and install it in the barn and was on the verge of getting a home/cottage baking license and then was going to start looking at commercial spaces in a year or so.  He was well on track with getting customers/farmers markets set up and was making a really good boiled NYC style bagel.  Then the smoke alarms starting going off in the barn from the oven heat and the owners made him stop. Now he is out of business before really getting going. He is not returning my calls and I feel he is in a deep sadness over it all.   It is all about timing most time.   I know I got lucky with my set up but in defense I have been working at this goal for almost 20 years with more failures, battles that have resulted in exhaustion with trying to keep a similar(smaller scale than I have now) thing going including suing the school district I was in, and moving to 3 different states, to see it finally come to pass.  Yeah for OHIO!  How long will it last?  I have no idea but am enjoying the each moment.   This is why I say follow your dreams because they will always come to pass if you truly follow them blindly.   I hope someday to open a place like Delorenzo's if and when my thing gets dismantled.  My wife will run the register, take orders, do the books, and I will hire 1-2 of my former students.  That with my old blodgett ovens and I will be die a happy man.  The only thing I would like to see added is a bathroom :)  Walter
-Jeff

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2013, 01:12:04 PM »
There was no luck involved in your situation Walter, just an incredible man and who saw the upside in a bunch of incredible kids that others fail to see.  What you do is so awesome.

shuboyje:  Thanks!  I have to do what I do.  What else could I do- let these kids rot?  Death awaits us so why not do something meaningfull?  I can't believe I get paid so well with great hours/vacations, full benefits, and retirement.  My dream is others will discover a passion in their hearts to help those that didn't ask to be born with a mind that doesn't function the right way for how our society operates via starting businesses to employ them in meaningful ways.  I am glad I never made it big financially in my life. That temptation must be hard to ignore.  Like Lou Gerigh said on his yankee stadium speech " Today I feel I am the luckiest man alive".     Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:23:22 PM by waltertore »

Online norma427

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2013, 01:18:06 PM »
There was no luck involved in your situation Walter, just an incredible man and who saw the upside in a bunch of incredible kids that others fail to see.  What you do is so awesome.

I agree Jeff!  Walter is an incredible man.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2013, 01:21:22 PM »
I agree Jeff!  Walter is an incredible man.

Norma

thanks Norma and you inspire me that if and when my current gig ends a small shop awaits that will carry on my work with pizza, the disabled, and who knows what else! Walter

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2013, 05:19:45 PM »
I love when you talk sh#t about central Ohio pizza, Walter, as well as when you sorta make fun of the people who love it, because you're right. I've lived here my whole life and I'd say you hit the nail on the head. However, as you've indicated, the people who love that crap are right, too; more right than Scott or anyone else who actually knows how to make an infinitely better pizza.

If you want to try by far the worst pizza I've ever had, go to Hound Dog's on North High Street in Clintonville (at Ackerman, I think). Conventional wisdom says even bad pizza is pretty good, but I could not eat the leftovers from this place. It was so disgusting. But this place seems to be doing great, as it has grown considerably over the last couple decades. Blows my mind.

As much as I value Scott's NY style expertise, I can say pretty confidently that if Scott opened a pizzeria in central Ohio, he probably wouldn't be in business very long unless he made the conscious decision to compromise his priciples and offer crappy pizza made of crappy ingredients, that goes through a sheeter and a conveyor and takes no skill or knowledge to create, because that's what pizza is to most central Ohioans. There is some accidentally good pizza around here (not NY style) if you show up at certain places at the right time. But if you do get something good in central Ohio, it's probably a total accident because no one actually knows what they're doing. They just do what they've been told to do by someone who never really knew any more than what someone else once told them to do.

Also, Walter, I like how you often point out the subjectivity of so many different things. Man, I could go on all day about some of this stuff. Can't wait to visit your class and meet you and your students.

To the people who have been arguing about whatever: You're all right and you're all wrong. It's fun reading it, and I'm glad the harmless arguing has been allowed to continue.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 05:37:43 PM »
I love when you talk sh#t about central Ohio pizza, Walter, as well as when you sorta make fun of the people who love it, because you're right. I've lived here my whole life and I'd say you hit the nail on the head. However, as you've indicated, the people who love that crap are right, too; more right than Scott or anyone else who actually knows how to make an infinitely better pizza.

If you want to try by far the worst pizza I've ever had, go to Hound Dog's on North High Street in Clintonville (at Ackerman, I think). Conventional wisdom says even bad pizza is pretty good, but I could not eat the leftovers from this place. It was so disgusting. But this place seems to be doing great, as it has grown considerably over the last couple decades. Blows my mind.

As much as I value Scott's NY style expertise, I can say pretty confidently that if Scott opened a pizzeria in central Ohio, he probably wouldn't be in business very long unless he made the conscious decision to compromise his priciples and offer crappy pizza made of crappy ingredients, that goes through a sheeter and a conveyor and takes no skill or knowledge to create, because that's what pizza is to most central Ohioans. There is some accidentally good pizza around here (not NY style) if you show up at certain places at the right time. But if you do get something good in central Ohio, it's probably a total accident because no one actually knows what they're doing. They just do what they've been told to do by someone who never really knew any more than what someone else once told them to do.

Also, Walter, I like how you often point out the subjectivity of so many different things. Man, I could go on all day about some of this stuff. Can't wait to visit your class and meet you and your students.

To the people who have been arguing about whatever: You're all right and you're all wrong. It's fun reading it, and I'm glad the harmless arguing has been allowed to continue.

Hi Ryan:  Thanks for note!  When I left NJ as a teen to travel in search of my musical dreams I was so hell bent opinionated on what is good pizza that I scared a lot of people.  I eventually got to the point that I would just say simply- this stuff isn't pizza but whatever it is more power to you for making, it eating it, and liking it  (but I still ain't gonna eat it :)).  Nowadays after 40 years of world travels and residencies, I appreciate regional foods from a cultural and historical perspective.  The food we experience as children leaves an almost unforgettable imprint and such a strong desire to recreate it that most times it will always be ones "best food".  One of my old bandmates is now running the recording engineering program at OSU.  He told me of a place on high street that makes an ok pizza.  I forget the name.  He is food conisour having lived around the world including many years in NYC.  I met a couple pizzeria guys a few weeks ago at RD in Columbus.  They saw my cart and we got to talking pizza.  They were asking me what flour to buy!  As we talked they shared their proccess(what you described in your post).  I told them how I do it and they said they have a couple old deck ovens in their back room but nobody has a clue as to how to use them.  One thing I do wonder is this.  Newark OH was founded by people from Newark NJ.   So why didn't they bring their food palate with them?  I think if I opened a small shop in Columbus in the short north it might survive?  I am not that familiar with Columbus but a friend was working at Rigsbys and that food was good.  He brought me a loaf of their bread and it was top shelf.  I really wonder sometimes what would happen with a small pizzeria in the right location, one size pie, very few toppings, and a 1 meal item a day like meatloaf, eggplant parm, lasagna, spaghetti/meatballs.  That would be it.  Open 4 days a week with my pizza, those diner items, and thats it.  I look forward to meeting you.  We have an order for 30 pies tomorrow.  That is about all we can handle due to the other stuff we make and getting it delivered. Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 06:13:16 PM by waltertore »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2013, 06:37:01 PM »
I assume Newark, Ohio existed before Newark, NJ had pizza. I've unintentionally learned a lot about Newark lately.

The person you mentioned sounds a lot like Brian L. Were you talking about a Brian L.?

Several years ago I was very interested in doing pizza in the Short North, largely because if you walk down High Street at the right time, it kinda feels like you're walking down 6th Av in NYC (Greenwich Village, I guess), and there's a lot of potential lunch business if you can find a way to reach people working in the skyscrapers downtown. It feels like a city neighborhood, rather than a suburb. There is nowhere else in Columbus like that, because metro Columbus is made up of suburbs and lame mega shopping destinations like Easton, rather than neighborhoods. (But I do like Grandview, and I'd love to put all the loser Grandview pizza joints out of business by opening yet another pizza joint in pizza-saturated Grandview.) I've always liked the Short North because I used to be an artsy/musician type. Also, in the Short North there's so much potential for catering business downtown. That could be a goldmine if you do it right.

Nowadays, though, I don't know how I feel about the Short North. Columbus consumers are not very bright, especially when it comes to food; more especially when it comes to pizza food. In Columbus it's all about marketing and maybe who you know. I'd like to think great food could sell in a city full of very bad food, yet it never fails to amaze me what people around here consider good pizza. Could be worse. Could be Cincinnati (which does have some really good, unique food, like Cincinnati-style chili). The problem with Cincinnati is that the people there are insanely loyal to certain local stuff, even if it's horrible (like La Rosa's pizza).
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2013, 08:20:37 PM »
Ryan:  You are right about pizzerias in Newark NJ when Newark OH was founded but there are a lot of Italians here and I figure like my mothers family who came from Italy, made stuff at home that rivaled and usually surpassed any official eatery, and eventually turned it into restaurants and bakeries.  The short north does make me feel like I am in a small neighborhood in a big city.   I like the vibe there but only have been there a few times.   I don't know Brian L.  I do believe in Columbus a good pizzeria could make it with the right location/cause.  Because I work with special needs people we get a lot of business just for that.   2 of my friends that have small artisan like operations here in Granville tried to get contracts with Denison University's new food vendor Bon Appetit.  I was the only one to get a contract.  We do make better food than anybody around here and that coupled with the cause makes us a good fit for most places that have a high public profile.  I would have no interest in opening my own place unless I employed disabled people.  That makes it all worth while.  To see them happy and have meaning in their lives is what it is about.   The pizza and baked goods are just stuff.   

 I have no idea how long my program will survive.  I am a lone wolf in the educational system of our county and for reasons beyond my comprehension  Newark City Schools sees what I see.   Our operationg budget from the district is 0 and we have to turn a profit at the end of each year or we are done.  We will not fold  due to money.  We are making more than any club in the school district including athletics and band.  What may eventually kill it will be due to the ever increasing insanity of our educational lawmakers.   They are continually pushing students like mine into academic based instruction even though they are working at the 1-3rd grade levels and 18 years old.   There are no academic based jobs for this skill level but that is where it is going more every year.  This year my students are out for 1 period for academics and the goal is to increase this more each year to meet federal guidelines.  If the district doesn't there will be no funding. 

I met with the school to work director of the Licking County Dept of Developmental Disabilities last week .   Federal laws have eliminated taxpayer funded programs that create money making operations that consist of workplaces that are maned totally by special needs people with "normal" people supervising and creating the work.   Now it will all be done in competitive workplaces in the community.  In other words they will now have to work in places you and I compete for jobs.   In theory this is great but in reality our system is based on cold hard no accomodations competiton and thus will result in even more unemployed special needs people.  Can you see business owners hiring special needs people and the work not getting done right and them simply saying "that is OK I really don't need to eat, have a home, I can lose it all for the cause". 

 If I go private it will not include government money programs in any shape or form.    Anyway, I know I can make it work because I know how to work with these people.  The average person is clueless and will most likely never hire any disabled person. The few that do will often do so because they have a special needs person in their life.  Forced integration is the new thing.  Yet my students enjoy the company of their disabled peers much more than their non disabled peers because they have very little to nothing in common with each other.   Crazy world we live in.  We try to hid our shames with fancy laws that on paper look great but in reality keep the disabled more and more isolated and hopeless. 

The cool news is good  food conquers everything.   That is what we do with The Smiling With Hope Bakery :) Walter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 08:41:31 PM by waltertore »


scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2013, 08:09:08 AM »
If I was to open a pizzeria on my terms here, with quality of ingredients I currently use the price would put me out of business before I started.  Very few would pay 12-15 dollars for an 18"  cheese pie.

Walter, I think you've proven, without any shadow of a doubt, that if you sold the pizza you're currently making on a retail level, you would clean up. I spend most of my waking hours either helping people make circa 1980 NY style pizzas or trying to talk people into making them  ;D  The golden age of NY pizza ran, in my best estimate, from 1960 to around 1990, so the pizza you're emulating, circa 1970 NY style pizza, is part of that same hallowed canon, and, imo, just as monumentally profitable- in any part of the nation (and many parts of the world).

The pizza I'm emulating is from a very specific pizzeria, so we're not creating exactly the same pies, but that's the beauty of 1960-1990 NY area pizza- it's all good. You grew up about 20 minutes away from me, but, from a pizza perspective, we're brothers. We're cut from the same cloth. We've been to the mountaintop  ;D

I don't really care where you're located in the U.S., if you're selling the pizza of our youth, you're making a bundle.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »
Walter, I think you've proven, without any shadow of a doubt, that if you sold the pizza you're currently making on a retail level, you would clean up. I spend most of my waking hours either helping people make circa 1980 NY style pizzas or trying to talk people into making them  ;D  The golden age of NY pizza ran, in my best estimate, from 1960 to around 1990, so the pizza you're emulating, circa 1970 NY style pizza, is part of that same hallowed canon, and, imo, just as monumentally profitable- in any part of the nation (and many parts of the world).

The pizza I'm emulating is from a very specific pizzeria, so we're not creating exactly the same pies, but that's the beauty of 1960-1990 NY area pizza- it's all good. You grew up about 20 minutes away from me, but, from a pizza perspective, we're brothers. We're cut from the same cloth. We've been to the mountaintop  ;D

I don't really care where you're located in the U.S., if you're selling the pizza of our youth, you're making a bundle.

Thanks for all that support Scott!  Coming from a Jersey brother that is special.  NYC has forever put us down as a wasteland but IMO food here easily rivals NYC stuff and for 1/2 the price and no NYC parking hassles.  I think the Essex County area is the tops in rivaling NYC for food.  When I was living there Newark was still a vibrant Italian place and we went there all the time for food and supplies.   Are you in Essex up in Morristown or is that Morris County?   This set up I have now is mostly mass produced, handmade baked goods, that we sell to schools and Denison Univ.  The pizza thing is a sideline unfortunately but that is a good thing because today we had an order for 30 pies and it really made it a serious workout morning.  We did the 30 in about an n hour hour 1/2 (16"- 6 to a deck, temp cranked to 650).  Not bad IMO considering it was just me and my special education student/asst. manager Paige.   It brings back memories of home seeing those boxes on top of the ovens staying warm.   I just ate my 2 pieces for lunch ( I eat 2 a day of cheese) and they came out pretty darn good considering I have principals walking in with "must answer my questions now", and 14 of my students making cookies, dog biscuits, wash, dishes, and all the stuff you do in a bakery.   Keeping my eyes on all this and the pies makes it a challenge with such a large order.  But it is a good high as I type this on my lunch break.  I figure if I ever open my own pizzeria it will be a breeze just making dough and pies.  These blodgett 1000's are great ovens and I will take them everywhere I go.   They can bury me in one!  Walter
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 12:53:11 PM by waltertore »

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2013, 08:18:57 PM »
Walter,
 Your a riot!!! I am old school. and that was hilarious! Hey who's that in the oven, Oh thats's Walter! HAHAHAA, classic!
I would hang with you anytime and definitely Scott. I probably would burst a lung or two laughing!

on a serious note, you rock man with the kids and all, really cool!!!
NY style as Scott mentioned will never die, it's just too darn good!!!!

Still working on funding for the pizzeria with the blodgetts I mentioned. Man, banks are real tough today!!!

I have great credit, 19 years biz history and the bank said no to a recent loan appl since I haven't shown profits. Well who the hell does in these times, uncle sam isn't looking out for me!

Applied to a NJ small biz loan, we shall see.

Later!
Chuck


Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2013, 06:06:02 PM »
Chuck: Hopefully someday I will be sitting at your pizzeria someday sharing a pie with you and Scott!  I get back to NJ every year or so.  Walter

Offline Cettastomatopies

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2013, 11:18:04 PM »
Walter,
         Mi casa su casa!! Anytime, I will let you know when it happens.
 And way to go with Paige and the kids! YOU SHOULD BE VERY PROUD BECAUSE YOU HELPED MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THERE LIVES AND THAT MY FRIEND IS SPECIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chuck

Offline waltertore

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2013, 05:52:49 AM »
Thanks Chuck!  Walter

scott123

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2013, 11:45:10 AM »
Chuck: Hopefully someday I will be sitting at your pizzeria someday sharing a pie with you and Scott!

Count me in! :)

Chuck, I don't envy your search for financing.  Hopefully the state will come through for you.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Commercial dough recipes to get a New Jersey pizzeria started
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2013, 01:57:46 PM »
When Sam De Lorenzo decided to open De Lorenzo's Tomato Pies in Robbinsville, NJ, after working all of his life at his father's and mother's place on Hudson St. in Trenton that had been around since 1947, and with great success, he went in search of a loan. As is discussed on page 33 of the article at http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/DTP-MidNJMag-June-2013.pdf, Sam was turned down by two large banks. His loan was finally approved by Yardville Bank. So, it looks like getting financing is not a sure thing, even when there is a proven track record of success.

Peter