Author Topic: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil  (Read 467 times)

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Offline rparker

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Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« on: January 19, 2015, 01:47:21 AM »
I like it when my pies go into rapid bubble mode on the stone. That cheese and sauce just goes nuts and creates a great flavor. Too much cheese can kill it. Bad bakes can as well. Does anyone have any thoughts they'd share on the subject? Assuming a 65% hydrated dough, .0925 TF, 625 on a Black Stone or 450 inside oven on a stone. Outer rings come out good. The crust comes out not done enough because I get scared of ruining the top with that molten lava that will look orange and unappetizing 20 minutes after it's been pulled out of the oven.

Two bakes ago - 620F, about 3 minutes in, maybe 4, the cheese and sauce went on the rampage. It rapid bubbled for a good 2 minutes. I pulled at 6:00 minutes. I would have loved another 90 seconds on the bottom. Bake last night, about 640F-650F for about 7 minutes or so and the bottom was done to perfection, but the top had ben rapid boiling for far too long and was over-board gooey.  I swear that I think a good it of the heat comes from the crust, ut

I even get a weird combination like that at oven temps inside.

I could mound the cheese and make it spread first. Maybe more cheese? Colder cheese? I keep thinking that there has to be something in the bake process that will help.

Any thoughts?


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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 08:55:06 AM »
6 minutes sounds like a really long time @620F - let alone 7 @ 650F.

At 650F, I think you probably want to be at about 4 minutes - maybe a few seconds longer. How are you measuring the temperature? Are you getting your stone thoroughly preheated? On the BS, you could also super-heat the stone and then bring the flame down before launching. You also might try bringing your TF down a bit.
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Offline rparker

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 09:31:40 AM »
6 minutes sounds like a really long time @620F - let alone 7 @ 650F.

At 650F, I think you probably want to be at about 4 minutes - maybe a few seconds longer. How are you measuring the temperature? Are you getting your stone thoroughly preheated? On the BS, you could also super-heat the stone and then bring the flame down before launching. You also might try bringing your TF down a bit.
My bad. I should not have omitted my bake steps. My posts are entirely too long, and I always seem to leave out the important details. (temp taken center of lower stone more consistently now.)
#1: pre-heat BS for about 3-5 minutes little bit above lowest dial setting. (flame clearing edge of steel by an inch or so)
#2: Turn flame up to about 1/4. About 5:00 for rest of 10 minutes.
#3: Stretch skin, move to peel.
#4: Guesstimate how much more flame I'll need to get lower center stone to target temperature. (Somewhere from 620 to 660 for now)
#5: Top my pie.
#6: Make sure my temp is in the range I'm shooting for.
#7: Launch pie.
#8: Crank down oven dial to lowest position.
#9: Bake until done.

Towards the end of the bake, the area on the stone to the left and towards the front of the oven with the pie on stone will creep down to the mid to upper 500's unless I launch any higher than 650F in the center. I'll take note of pre-launch temps for an accurate amount of decrease on that spot. My guess is it comes down maybe 20-40 degrees.

fwiw, the crust I am shooting for is kind of like that crust you get when the pizza dude throws your slice into the oven for a couple of minutes and the crust is nice and crunchy. I can get there, and I can do so without ruining the outer ring. I can even do it without over-browning the cheese. I can't do it without that rapid bubbling happening too soon and too long.

I can go straight up NY style with not quite so much of that crust crunch. 570F on the BS is a mighty fine place to be, and that is what my fail-safe would be if dinner guests were here. I want better. I've done it a few times. Repeating is difficult. 
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 10:27:21 AM »
My guess is that your stone isn't anywhere near fully heated to your launch temp. 10 minutes is not very long. The surface temperature of the stone tells you very little about the heat saturation. At 650F, you should be getting nice bottoms at maybe a few seconds over 4:00.

Maybe someone with a BS will chime in and tell you I'm wrong about this, but until then, I'd heat my stone longer and with a higher flame. I'd take it above 650 then turn the flame down and wait for it to drop to 650. If it keeps falling, it wasn't fully heated.
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Offline deb415611

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 10:32:41 AM »
My guess is that your stone isn't anywhere near fully heated to your launch temp. 10 minutes is not very long. The surface temperature of the stone tells you very little about the heat saturation. At 650F, you should be getting nice bottoms at maybe a few seconds over 4:00.

Maybe someone with a BS will chime in and tell you I'm wrong about this, but until then, I'd heat my stone longer and with a higher flame. I'd take it above 650 then turn the flame down and wait for it to drop to 650. If it keeps falling, it wasn't fully heated.

Craig's correct on this.   
Deb

Offline rparker

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 10:45:52 AM »
it's settled, then. I'll maintain a flame enough to keep it over 650 for an additional 5 minutes to start with and see how that goes, and adjust from there as needed.

Thanks yet again for the tips.  :D :D
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 12:08:52 PM »
I'd take it above 650 then turn the flame down and wait for it to drop to 650. If it keeps falling, it wasn't fully heated.

   That's exactly how you do it on this oven and it will take a good 15 mins.
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 12:14:32 PM »
Outside of oven adjustments you can also apply the cheese in slices instead of shredded and adjust the slice thickness to get the result you are after.  If you want to go a step further put the slices of cheese on first then sauce on the top.  I use these tricks in my coal oven which produces as much top heat as anything.
-Jeff

Offline rparker

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 03:02:50 PM »
First bake went in the right direction. User error and subsequent adjustment made. Hopefully better next time. Right direction, though. What ended up being a 5 minute bake made for a much nicer pie. The bottom and top was a good bit closer to both being done how I like. Actually quite a nice straight-up NY style on it's own. 

I need to lower my yeast again, I think. Zero issues on tough chew and skin-stretch fronts now. Third batch of dough since reducing mix times, yet again. amazing how each little tiny thing makes a difference.

I looked at my dough calculator result and the TF ended up at .0927, not .09 as I entered. I like it up there when cooked a bit crisper.

Cheese on the dough is a good thing. I should do it more. I've been focusing on my dough issues for a few months, but did do a couple of bakes like that a while ago and liked it. One might have been a Greek Style I tried.   
 
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: Delaying the Rapid Cheese Boil
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 04:14:29 PM »
Maybe someone with a BS will chime in and tell you I'm wrong about this, but until then, I'd heat my stone longer and with a higher flame. I'd take it above 650 then turn the flame down and wait for it to drop to 650. If it keeps falling, it wasn't fully heated.
I got this today. took a few adjustments including lowering my plate a bit. Actually perfectly where I think I want it. I can turn the knob all the way down and hover in the mid 650's F for 5-10 minutes. (Outside air was low 60's F today. ) Thanks again for directional nudges. back to the dough thread.

fwiw, the pie I made was better again. Dough too risen. Same batch as yesterday. The coloring, spotting and the toppings all screamed out perfection, but the crunch did not get deep enough. It was still too bready. Soooooo close. I'll make an inquiry on the dough thread as I think we got bake procedure down. (65% water, .31% IDY about to drop, great stretch and no tough chew still. Soooo close.)  I do have a glutenboy getting close to maturation. have not tried one of those in months. .19%. Not as risen, but it's in the same ballpark.

 
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.