Author Topic: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza  (Read 399 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ogdred

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 60
  • Location: Toronto
First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« on: August 22, 2014, 07:00:58 PM »
I've moved to a new place recently, and my oven now goes to 600 degrees. On a day trip to Buffalo, I picked up 50 lb of All-Trumps, and here is the first fruit.

This is a 36-hour cold-ferment, Hydration is 63%, with 2% oil, 2% sugar, 2% salt 1/6 tsp IDY, mixed in a stand mixer. The dough ball is 12 oz, stretched to 14". The stone was just shy of 600, and the bake was 3.5 minutes, with top broiler running. Dough went in cold. Bottom browning was a bit lighter than I expected, but I just switched to a 50-50 semolina/flour mix for my board stretching. Not sure, but that might do it...

This is my first try at commercial sauce and pepperoni as well. Not sure if I like the Stanislaus "Full Red" pizza sauce, but it goes with the pepperoni, I guess.

Other threads recommend mixing the AT with some AP flour; do others recommend this? The 63% hydration seemed a bit wet, but the dough was very easy to work straight out of the fridge.


Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1201
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2014, 09:42:44 PM »
Lucky you. Not many people have an oven that goes to 600 degrees. The pizza looks textbook fantastic. Way to go!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21906
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2014, 09:15:58 AM »
ogdred,

Your pizza looks very good.

The rated absorption value for the AT flour is around 63%. But the oil also has a wetting effect, so you might try dropping the hydration to around 61%. That might make it a bit more difficult to use the dough straight out of the refrigerator, so you may want to keep that in mind.

Many of our members favor a lower protein content for their NY styles. The AT flour has a protein content of around 14-14.2%. You can lower that if you wish by blending it with either bread flour or all-purpose flour. If you know the protein content of the all-purpose flour, you can use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to determine the amounts of the two flours for any desired final protein content you might elect to use. Something around 13.5% might be a good place to start. Remember that you lose some of the effect of the potassium bromate if you blend the AT flour with all-purpose flour because all-purpose flour is almost never bromated.

Peter

Offline ogdred

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 60
  • Location: Toronto
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2014, 11:41:46 AM »
I somehow had the impression that higher was better for NY Style. I didn't find the crust overly chewy, which I guess the mixed in AP would mitigate.  The pizza was quite thin (TF 0.79), so I don't know how chewy that could get, except at the rim. The Canadian flour I use is quite high in protein already (12-13%), so I would have to go to a 50-50 mix to get it down.

I am sure it will take a while to find out what the bromate does, so I will probably keep it at 100% for a while.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21906
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2014, 11:50:12 AM »
I somehow had the impression that higher was better for NY Style.
It's all a matter of personal preference. Many of our members in a home environment might like to use hydration at the higher levels but professionals do not do that as best I can tell from my reading on the subject. If the hydration is too high, it is harder for workers to open up dough balls to the typical 18" size of a NY style pizza, and it is hard to toss and twirl a skin at that size, and especially if the thickness factor is on the low side. Rather than risk losing too many skins, the prudent course is to use a lower hydration value. In a home setting, you are free to do as you wish, and losing a skin here and there, though not what one would wish, has little economic consequence. You can't afford that in a commercial setting.

Peter

Offline ogdred

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 60
  • Location: Toronto
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2014, 01:23:04 PM »
Oops. I meant higher protein/gluten content.

As far as hydration goes, I got used to doing a more vigorous stretch and toss, which is why I prefer the slightly lower hydration and the colder dough, I think. There seems to be a preference here for big puffy rims on NY Style pizzas, whereas I tend to a more minimal rim.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21906
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2014, 01:29:54 PM »
There seems to be a preference here for big puffy rims on NY Style pizzas, whereas I tend to a more minimal rim.
When I first started playing around with the NY style several years ago, I thought that a large rim was typical of that style. Later, when I had a chance to visit NYC on several occasions, I saw that the rims of the pizzas at the places I visited were actually quite small. Again, it is a matter of personal preference. Some members like large rims and others prefer the smaller rims.

Peter

Online JD

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1067
  • Location: NE Mississippi, but NY born & raised
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2014, 02:54:35 PM »
I've been using 100% AT recently instead of blending. IMO it's better unmixed, but only if you severely under-knead the dough.  If AT becomes over-kneaded it turns into a rubber band. I use 58% hydration + 3% oil.
Josh

Offline patnx2

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 143
  • Location: modesto,ca
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 02:54:29 AM »
I have been making my pizza with pendelton flour. I mix at 65% and 3% oil. I have been happy with results but wonder what I might expect with a 62 or 63% mix?? I make pizza once aweek and since I am happy with results I have not done a lot of experamenting. Any ideas welcome.
By the way the pizzas posted above are nice. Patrick :)
Patrick

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21906
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2014, 08:57:41 AM »
In a commercial setting, it is imperative that the dough be workable since the success of the business depends on that. So, that usually rules out high hydration values, especially if the workers assigned to open up the dough balls are workers who come and go with regularity and don't stick around long enough to develop the necessary skills at that task. Where some of our members often go wrong, especially newbies, is to start off their career in dough making by using an excessively high hydration value, usually after seeing other members use hydration values in excess of 65%. I think that is a big mistake. I think the far better approach for newbies is to start low on the hydration scale and gradually increase the hydration values with successive dough batches until they feel they have mastered the process and have achieved a final hydration value that suits them best. For a NY style dough using a high-gluten flour, I would suggest a hydration range of 56-65%. This progressive approach will teach the newbie a great deal about how hydration affects the feel and plasticity of their dough while, at the same time, they are improving their dough management skills. Ideally, for best results, the newbie should stick with one recipe and not change it by adding or subtracting things or changing the values of the other ingredients. However, some tweaking of the amount of flour and water might be necessary if it is clear that the dough is too dry or two wet and not a functional dough. There are a lot of things that affect the hydration of the dough beyond the amount of water, and these will sometimes necessitate tweaking the amount of flour and water.

Peter


Offline drmatt357

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • Location: Tucson
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2014, 01:01:35 PM »
That is a beautiful looking pie!  I wouldn't change a thing.

Offline ogdred

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 60
  • Location: Toronto
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2014, 08:52:06 PM »
 Thanks, Dr. Matt. I feel forced to play around with the new flour, if only to see what it does.

I tried reducing hydration to 60%, and oil and sugar down to 1% each. This is a 1-day cold rise, baked for 3:30 at 600 F. This one came out a bit better, as it wasn't stretched quite as thin. (I also took it out of the mixer clearly underkneaded. The last batch I made became a bit tough after 72 hours.)

Online waltertore

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 1409
  • Location: granville ohio
    • The Smiling With Hope Bakery
Re: First All-Trumps Bromated Pizza
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 08:53:48 AM »
ogdred:  Nice looking pies!  Peter is right in that most pizzerias use lower hydration rates for ease of use. Not only are they easier to work with but they also are a lot easier to get out of the dough box and don't bleed together like they will with higher hydration rates.  We use 63% with FS flour and that is about as far as I will push it.   We put 5/20oz dough balls per proofing box and cold ferment them for 2-5 days(I try to go 3-7 days but it is not consistent enough with the hot weather).  On day 2, which I try to avoid and wait till day 3, they are in great shape for getting out of the box and easy handling for tossing.  By day 3 some are already bleeding into each other.  This means a lot of care has to be taken to get them out in decent shape and after they are out of the fridge for more than an hour or so tossing is not often the route to take.  By day 4-5 usually most have bled together some and  are not toss-able. This makes for a "temperamental" dough but is well worth it for the  flavor texture that comes with the higher hydration and longer ferment.  Most NY Style places do a much lower hydration and a same day or 1 day cold ferment dough.  This means the dough balls will be in great shape for getting out of the boxes and toss easy.   Most, as Peter stated, have many employees and most nowadays have little to no pizza making backround going into it.  My wife and I took in an 11 year old Mexican girl.  She loved pizza and I taught her how to make them.  Now she is 27 and managing/head pizza maker at a shop in the SF bay area.  When she took over the owner, who is from NYC but knows nothing of making pizzas, was lost with dough production/management.  Ana and I spent a lot of hours on the  phone as we worked the dough to a low hydration and same day/1 day cold fermentation. Now she can train new employees a lot easier.   Walter

Here is a photo of dough after a day in the fridge.  We made these for a photo shoot/story for the PMQ pizza magazine.   They wanted shots of my students tossing.  We made our regular 63% hydration but only put them in the fridge for 24 hours with a higher yeast amount than normal. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:32:03 PM by waltertore »