Author Topic: 80% Hydration Pizza technique  (Read 1196 times)

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Offline sonny.eymann

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80% Hydration Pizza technique
« on: September 01, 2013, 12:52:00 PM »
I have used this technique and recipe on deep dish and Sicilian pizza before with great success.  The dough is formed in the well oiled pan and cook in that pan because the hydration is very high. With this technique you end up with a fried pizza dough on the bottom. but It forms a very light airy crust with lots of oven spring as cooked.

I have tried before to form in flour and deliver on a peel to the oven. The success was not good. The hydration is so high that so much flour is use that I no longer have a 80% hydration pizza or it fails because it stuck to the peel.

With this technique. I cooked the dough and not fried the dough. the pizza was very light and airy with lot of oven spring. This is the recipe and handling procedure.

Four 100%    10 oz my panama flour at about 12 percent protein (KA AP would be good choice)
water 80%     room temperature
IDY    1/4 tsp  or as low as 1/8 tsp it depend on how long you intend to leave at room Temperature and what your room temperature is at.
Salt    1.75%   5g
Sugar 1.75%   5g
No oil in recipe but formed in oil.

I used a glass bowl because I have a nice lid that fits.

add water, add salt, add sugar mixed 30 seconds, add flour and add IDY mixed with a spatula for about 1 minute. photo below.

let sit on the counter at 84f room temperature, after about 6 hours I degassed and used the spatula to turn the the dough from the outside edge to the center to stretch, about one minute. I did this 3 times more. there was a total of 9 hours at room temperature. I put it in the refrigerator for about 14 hours before I formed and cooked. see photos.

At 9 hours the yeast in the dough was very active. If your intention  is to leave it out on the counter then reduce the yeast to 1/8 tsp. I had no choice but to put it in the cooler to slow the yeast it was rapidly going out of control,  I was not ready to cook.

I took it out of the refrigerator and placed on parchment paper that was oiled with about 3/4 oz of olive oil . I formed the pizza. the gluten development was very high so I had to wait several times for the dough to relax to finish the skin. I didnít want to cook on the paper I formed on, too much oil. I place a clean ( not oiled)  parchment on top of the pizza and flipped it using the peel and removed the oiled paper. see photo

The Pizza was great!  great flavor, light with lots of oven spring and air holes.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:00:19 PM by sonny.eymann »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 02:24:55 PM »
Sonny,

That is a good looking pizza.

Did you bake the pizza on the parchment paper? If so, how did you bake the pizza (type of oven, bake temperature and time)? Also, what was the size of the pizza?

Peter

Offline redox

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 02:43:27 PM »
Sonny,

That is a good looking pizza.

Did you bake the pizza on the parchment paper? If so, how did you bake the pizza (type of oven, bake temperature and time)? Also, what was the size of the pizza?

Peter
It sounds like that is what he's saying here:  "I didnít want to cook on the paper I formed on, too much oil. I place a clean ( not oiled)  parchment on top of the pizza and flipped it using the peel and removed the oiled paper."

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 03:09:21 PM »
Jay,

I think you may be correct. However, since Sonny did not discuss how he baked the pizza, I wondered whether he might have slid the pizza onto a pan of some sort, but without the oil that he did not want.

Peter

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 03:47:33 PM »
I form on oiled parchment paper. I did not want to cook in that much oil. I placed a new parchment, no oil, on top of the formed pizza skin. I flip the skin and 2 pieces of paper over. I peeled the oiled one off  that was now on top and discarded.  I toped the pizza. I cook in a counter top deck oven at 500 on the paper for very close to 12 minutes.  The parchment paper is 16" wide. You can see by the photo that the pizza is about 15"

I have a counter top Pizza oven Nemco 6205 120 volt with 1/2" stone decks. I like it but it takes almost a hour to 500f  because it is 120 volt. I wished I had gotten the 240 volt one. they take 20 minutes to 500

I repeat and the 3 people that had a slice also say that was the best to date. It was very good. very tender, yet chewy with lots of oven spring and holes.

Offline redox

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 03:51:56 PM »
I've never done a pizza with this high a hydration %. I'm very curious how the crust tastes. I'm going to have to try this soon. Thanks for posting this.
Btw, that's a great looking pizza.  :)
I wonder if this type pizza would benefit from a higher temperature bake?

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2013, 03:54:01 PM »
OMG!  Peter 20,000 posts today? jejejeje

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2013, 04:01:45 PM »
 I think high hydration are more suited for 450 to 500F and cooked in a pan or parchment paper.
You could damage the deck if put direct of the deck and you may end up with something that more reassembles a popover if cooked at 650 or 700? JEJEJE  :-D
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 04:04:20 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline redox

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2013, 04:12:58 PM »
We have bakeries selling cronuts so why not popover pizzas?  ;D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2013, 04:20:24 PM »
OMG!  Peter 20,000 posts today? jejejeje
Sonny,

LOL. I guess there is a pretty good chance of it. Maybe I should delete all my posts and start all over again. Norma is breathing down my neck and will pass me for sure. Maybe early next year.

Peter


Offline La Sera

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2013, 05:39:25 PM »
I thought parchment paper has a temperature limit of about 420F?

Interesting looking texture.

I think with just a little more water, you could just pour it into a non-stick pizza pan, top it and bake it.   :D
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 05:45:21 PM by La Sera »

Offline redox

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2013, 05:57:24 PM »
I thought parchment paper has a temperature limit of about 420F?

Interesting looking texture.

I think with just a little more water, you could just pour it into a non-stick pizza pan, top it and bake it.   :D
Remember, the pizza on top of the parchment paper is drawing heat away. The pizza would have to be baked through to a temp of 420į for the paper to start burning. That's why it needs to be trimmed to the size of the pizza to prevent the excess from burning. Or maybe he's got a higher temp paper. Costco's Kirkland brand is only good to 420į .

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2013, 11:30:33 PM »
First the maximum working temperature of the parchment paper is 420 or a different brand at 450. That temperature is the recommended max not some magic point the whole thing goes into flames. You are correct the paper directly under the pizza is at a much lower temperature but the paper hanging out in the air is at oven temperature and it does turn brown but not very fast. But who cares?

When you put pizza direct on the deck or stone the deck is at oven temperature but 4 minutes later lift the pizza and take the temperature of the deck. It is scary low. There is a certain conductivity of the stone adding the paper hurts conductivity very little.

Parchment paper can be used to a oven temperature of about 550 in the cooking time of Pizza. And yes you could trim the paper but again who cares if it turn
brown.
If the oven was at 600 or above. yes I would trim the paper
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 11:33:47 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2013, 11:48:02 PM »
Sonny, thank you for that recipe and technique. I am going to try it!  Your pizza looks delicious.

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2013, 08:20:10 PM »
Sonny,

There is some interesting stuff on the use of parchment paper starting at Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6708.msg61773.html#msg61773 .

Peter

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 11:27:57 PM »
Thank you Peter for the thread on Parchment paper. I had not seen before you pointed out.  I have used a lot of parchment paper. I do sometimes brown the part hanging in the air but I am just not having problems at 500f and even at 550f is ok but parts are starting to getting brittle.

I repeat. at 500f and the 11 to 12 minutes it is taking to cook a loaded pizza it just isn't a problem. The bottom is browning well. Direct on the stone deck, I am getting the same color in about 10 minutes but at 10 minutes I would like a little more color on the top. In my oven with parchment paper I have a good cooking profile.

TinRoof thank you also. I have learn a lot from reading the forum and I hope I can share information to other members.

My goal was to develop a commercial product. Before 3 months ago I had always made Pizza dough at 65% to 80 hydration most were cooked in a pan, Sicilian style or deep dish but without getting to thick on the crust.  In the last 3 months, I have more than 150 pizzas,  I have been in the 50 to 62% hydration. learning to make and handle dough because that is where the majority of pizzeria are at.

When I started this thread I had returned to high hydration Pizzas.  I give away 90% of the pizza I make. With High Hydration the comments also changed from this is good pizza to  " This is the best Pizza I have ever had!"

 I have made 3 pizza at 80% 2 at 75% and 5 at 70% and 2 at 65% in 3 days. I also think that this is great pizza and if I do open a pizzeria this is where I will be.

Tonight I cooked 2 at 70% hydration. one on parchment and one in a lloyds pan. I am both happy and disappointed with the lloyds pans. I will start a new thread on lloyds pans when I have more data

The parchment paper cooked in 11 minutes. sorry no photos I had people over and it was gone before I even though about. JEJEJE :-D
Than I cook one in a lloyds pan. It took forever but turned out very good. 
I took it out at 12 minutes but no color on the bottom.
I have lids for the deep dish pans so I covered to slow down the top browning.
I took it out again at 18 and looked at the bottom a little brown
I returned it to the oven for a total of 22 minutes cooking time. I did not count the half minute that it took me to look.
Next time I think I will try covered for the first 8 minutes than cook 12 minutes uncovered.
The good news is the pizza was world class
Both pizza had great oven spring but the air pockets were very uniform in the pan as compared to the parchment paper
The last photo was the bottom at 12 minutes on Parchment paper
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 11:30:02 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: 80% Hydration Pizza technique
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 12:12:51 AM »
One of my friends that reads the forum called me and asked why? I think the color was  uniform from the parchment paper because no extra oil. The pan had extra oil. I will try just a light wipe of oil need time on the pan. The bottom from the parchment had a light crunch but the pan had a more crisp crunch even where light color.
The caramelization was very good from the pan but cooking time was long. They were cooked on my deck oven at 500f and the pan size was 14" dough size was 17 oz.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 12:18:08 AM by sonny.eymann »