Author Topic: My flour/stretching tips needed  (Read 421 times)

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Offline zillas

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My flour/stretching tips needed
« on: April 16, 2015, 09:20:38 AM »
Hello, i were reading this forum and cooking pizzas for several weeks now. Only flour, which has high protein, i managed to get was spelt flour. I do not know how to adjust recipe to this kind of flour. Could it be the reason my dough is not elastic enough? I have tried various types of pizza dough's and none of them were elastic enough for me to stretch it properly. Note, i am also very new at stretching dough. Whenever i tried my dough at >62% hydration it wouldn`t get off my wooden peel (i put stretched dough on peel and then add toppings there). I rip holes in my dough whenever i try to make it thinner. Also, all of my pizzas are much thinner in a middle compared to sides next to crust, even when i try not to touch middle at all.

Flour nutrition:
  Fat - 2.2%g
      of which saturated - 0.69%
  Carbohydrate - 68.07%
      of which sugar - 0.06%
  Fiber - 3.42%
  Protein - 12.9%
  Salt - 0.19%

So, i have few questions,
How this kind of flour would affect dough? What should i look to change in recipe to adjust? How do i pick good flour if i don`t recognize any recommended brand?
also
Is there any way to practice more stretching without eating 10 pizza/day? If i stretch dough, make it into a ball and try again in 1(?) hour, would it hurt/change dough?

I would really appreciate any help you can give me,
zillas

Online hodgey1

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2015, 04:50:30 PM »
Hello, i were reading this forum and cooking pizzas for several weeks now. Only flour, which has high protein, i managed to get was spelt flour. I do not know how to adjust recipe to this kind of flour. Could it be the reason my dough is not elastic enough?

Flour nutrition:
  Fat - 2.2%g
      of which saturated - 0.69%
  Carbohydrate - 68.07%
      of which sugar - 0.06%
  Fiber - 3.42%
  Protein - 12.9%
  Salt - 0.19%

So, i have few questions,
How this kind of flour would affect dough? What should i look to change in recipe to adjust? How do i pick good flour if i don`t recognize any recommended brand?
also
Is there any way to practice more stretching without eating 10 pizza/day? If i stretch dough, make it into a ball and try again in 1(?) hour, would it hurt/change dough?

I would really appreciate any help you can give me,
zillas
I think in order to get the proper help you need you will need to give us some more details. Start by giving your recipe, your technique and what kind of pizza you hope to achieve ie: Neopolitan, Ny style and such.

Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2015, 11:24:29 PM »
Hi, i am experimenting with many recipes. For instance, yesterday i made
Flour    100.00%   525g
Water   59.05%   310g
IDY      0.19%   1g
Salt     1.90%   10g
Sugar   1.90%   10g
I mixed the ingredients and used stretch and folds for dough. Left it in room temperature for 8 hours. For this one i just wanted to see how dough rise without putting it into fridge.
Several times i tried pete-zza PJ clone,

KA Bread Flour (100%):
Water (56.5%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):
Sugar (4.2%):
Total (170.03%):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217

Doing everything exactly as he described

Offline Jackitup

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 11:28:42 PM »
How did they turn out, did you like them, pictures??

jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 01:15:38 AM »
Hi jon,
I wasn`t happy with neither of my attempts which i had. Dough feels too heavy, its neither foldable, nor crunchy. It just feels "dry" on the outside of crust. Can`t get it even close to good taste of tamatoes/dough balance. Even tho it improved when i tried different brand tomatoes http://www.it.all.biz/img/it/catalog/middle/109821.png and followed tip of not over-blending them. It still feels my dough isn`t tasty enough.

I have few pictures of pizza i were making few days back. If i recall correctly i used 60-61% hydration, ~3% salt and thats it. After kneading left it in room temperature for few hours, then put it into fridge for 20 more hours. Took it out few hours prior cooking. Used dried basil, because i`m still waiting for summer :)
http://i.imgur.com/ZfVuWuQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oX9SOIo.jpg

It barely had a taste and the dough characteristics described above.

Sorry if my English hurts to read,
zillas

edit: no idea why my pictures not showing, i put them into []; [/] img brackets

Online hodgey1

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 07:19:15 AM »
This link will take you to the recipe that I've found that works best in my home oven. Ive tweaked it a bit to my taste but I think its a winner.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15563.msg153109.html#msg153109

I target a finished dough temp in the 70's*F then cold ferment for at least a day or two but prefer 3 or 4.


Offline Jackitup

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 11:47:51 PM »
Sorry if my English hurts to read,

Most of the time my own english hurts to read much less hear it :-D No apologies needed brother, doing great. Hang around and practice with the rest of us. And please share some of your families recipes and food ideas from your country! Most of us are pretty eclectic and enjoy new cuisines and ideas from different people.
Keep practicing!!!!!

jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 06:33:35 AM »
This link will take you to the recipe that I've found that works best in my home oven. Ive tweaked it a bit to my taste but I think its a winner.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15563.msg153109.html#msg153109

I target a finished dough temp in the 70's*F then cold ferment for at least a day or two but prefer 3 or 4.
Hi, thanks for tips. I just made dough using this recipe. This time i will be making pictures of whole progress. Made 4 small balls, for 10" pizzas and put them for cold fermentation. I tried different flour this time ( http://www.divella.it/farina-00-da-kg-1-consigliata-per-pizza/ ). Maybe anyone knows if this flour is suitable for pizzas?

Most of the time my own english hurts to read much less hear it :-D No apologies needed brother, doing great. Hang around and practice with the rest of us. And please share some of your families recipes and food ideas from your country! Most of us are pretty eclectic and enjoy new cuisines and ideas from different people.
Keep practicing!!!!!

jon

Hi Jon, only thing i can think of worth sharing would be cold beetroot soup made out of kefir ( http://333oee3bik6e1t8q4y139009mcg.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Kefir.png ). Then again i doubt people would try it, every time i tell people about it they start shaking. There is my Scotch friend, who say "bacteria with pickled beetroot, hell no i`m not eating that" and then tells me about this amazing haggis made out of sheeps blood, heart, liver and lungs

Offline norma427

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 07:32:49 AM »
zillas,

If you don't have access to a high heat oven like a wood-fired oven I don't think your pizza will brown enough when using the Divella Farina 00 flour.  That flour is for wood fired ovens. 

Do you have access to a flour like the Special Wheat flour of Bauno Gradai? http://www.kauno-grudai.lt/default/en/businesses/flour_and_flour_products_business/products_3  I am not sure what protein the Special Wheat flour is, but you might want to look for a bread flour to make pizza if you don't want to make Neapolitan pizza.   Maybe you could ask a bakery what brand of bread flour they use for making breads.

I wanted to tell you that at Reply 4 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37603.msg376165#msg376165 when you posted the links to your pizzas there shouldn't be any links put into brackets.  I took them out and then the links worked.

I have made pizzas with milk kefir as the only leavening agent.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 07:59:40 AM »
zillas,

If you don't have access to a high heat oven like a wood-fired oven I don't think your pizza will brown enough when using the Divella Farina 00 flour.  That flour is for wood fired ovens. 

Do you have access to a flour like the Special Wheat flour of Bauno Gradai? http://www.kauno-grudai.lt/default/en/businesses/flour_and_flour_products_business/products_3  I am not sure what protein the Special Wheat flour is, but you might want to look for a bread flour to make pizza if you don't want to make Neapolitan pizza.   Maybe you could ask a bakery what brand of bread flour they use for making breads.

I wanted to tell you that at Reply 4 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37603.msg376165#msg376165 when you posted the links to your pizzas there shouldn't be any links put into brackets.  I took them out and then the links worked.

I have made pizzas with milk kefir as the only leavening agent.

Norma
Hi Norma,
All KG group flour has 10.3% protein. Actually, i will go to my favorite bakery right now and ask what kind of flour they are using :)

zillas


Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 08:22:19 AM »
Haha, they are using same spelt flour i wrote about in post 1
http://www.malsena.lt/en/produktai/vartotojams/miltai/spelta-kvietiniai-miltai

Offline norma427

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 09:01:01 AM »
It looks like most flours in the area were you live are milled from soft wheat grain.  http://www.malsena.lt/en/produktai/profesionalams/kvietiniai-miltai/kvietiniai-miltai-maisuose/premium-ekstra-kvietiniai-miltai  Those flours look like they are for professionals.  It looks like you don't have many choices for flours in your area.  I don't know if adding malt would help or not to create more browning.  I never worked with Spelt flour before in making a pizza.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 09:18:47 AM »
Our climate is not warm enough to grow hard wheat. Our people do not care enough to import hard wheat. Should i look for type 00, 0 or 1 flour? Do i get it right that for using 00 flour i need wood fired oven?

Offline norma427

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2015, 11:42:49 AM »
Our climate is not warm enough to grow hard wheat. Our people do not care enough to import hard wheat. Should i look for type 00, 0 or 1 flour? Do i get it right that for using 00 flour i need wood fired oven?

zillas,

I have no idea if VWG (vital wheat gluten) could be added to one of your flours to get the protein higher.  Maybe you could ask your bakery if they use VWG to get the protein of one of their flours higher, or what they add to their bread doughs.  It does look like there is VWG where you live.  http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Vital-Wheat-Gluten_127847643.html and http://www.21food.com/products/vital-wheat-gluten-455736.html

As far as I know an 00 flour will only give good results in a wood-fired oven.  Maybe you might want to do a search about using 00 flour in a home oven.  You might get some ideas of what to try with an 00 flour in the one thread I started at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17128.0  What temperature does your oven go too?  You can also look at Peter's links at Reply 3 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17128.msg166777#msg166777 

I really don't know what 0 or 1 flour is.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline zillas

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2015, 10:25:07 AM »
norma,

Thank you for all the help you have given me here :)

As for my dough, i realized how much temperature means. At the top of my fridge there is freezer, so temperature at the top is slightly lower. I put 2 of my boxes at the top of my fridge and 2 at the bottom. As a result of that, dough at slightly lower temerature risen about 2 times, while another have risen about 3 times. The one which risen at higher temperature also looks sticky and hard to work with. Adding 4 photos of  dough, first 2 from the top of my fridge, another 2 from bottom.

Offline norma427

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Re: My flour/stretching tips needed
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2015, 11:02:26 AM »
zillas,

Thanks for telling us how differently you dough ferments in different places in your refrigerator. 

If you use the “poppy seed trick” you can tell if your dough overferments and that might be why it could become sticky.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html  I use the poppy seed trick different times.  Working with sticky doughs can be tricky sometimes.  Really I don't know if your doughs that are more risen will give your any problems or not.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


 

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