Author Topic: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?  (Read 408 times)

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Offline moose13

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2014, 09:10:31 PM »
Bakers % confused me at first too, but ended up being very simple.
Think of a cup of flour, take one and lightly pour the flour in, then take one and pack it hard.
Just a guess but you could almost double your flour with the packed one. Everything is done by weight creating consistent recipes.

Heres how i do my blackstone bakes.
Preheat to about 650-700 launch pie and turn burner to low.
Watch the bottom for the first sign of charring, usually a few small spots forming.
Then i will crank it full blast for the rest of the bake.

There are many threads explaining bakers %
Here is a nice tool i use often http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 09:12:08 PM by moose13 »


Offline jvp123

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2014, 12:16:01 AM »
Not a silly question at all. It is true that the BS shines on NP style pizza.  But most home ovens really are not capable of the heat needed for a really good NY style pizza.  My home oven can turn out a passable NY style if I heat it for an hour and use the broiler to get the stone nice and hot before I launch the pie.  And my oven is just barely capable of good NY style pizza.  Many people can't get their ovens hot enough for a really good NY style.  So it's nice to have an oven that can very easily reach whatever temp you may need to bake a proper NY style pizza.  Also, the heat from the BS oven is different than the heat in a home oven. You get a different texture on surface of the pizza crust than you would in a home oven. Finally, I can heat my BS oven in 15 minutes whereas to get my home oven ready for a NY style pizza I really need to heat it for an hour.  So it's really nice if you want to get a pizza in the oven a bit quicker.

Thanks Tinroof .. that makes sense.  You are saying the BS is variable so it can do both styles well.  I just know from looking at someone like Walter's pies and many other NY style pizza makers (I hope I'm correct in classifying them as NY style?) that they seem to go with a gentler bake that doesn't have all the char (which I like btw - I like it both ways!).

My baking steel in my home oven usually gets to a reflected temp of 575 or so, but yes its at a cost!  - After 1 to 1.5 hours in very hot summer weather its used a lot of energy and heats up the house unreasonably.

I guess I'm a bit torn at the moment as to what it is I'm going for.  Ha ha - Before I began to learn the process, I responded to more of the coal oven pies I had had in NY in the 80s and 90s which had a lot of char.  But I've also had really good deck oven pies without the char in NY and completely enjoy those as well.  I just don't recall seeing pies like the way Walter or Norma's look on the BS. I'm sure there are plenty of examples - I just haven't seen them or wasn't aware that's how they were prepared.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 12:18:24 AM by jvp123 »
Jeff

Offline abacus

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2014, 11:43:55 AM »
Again, thank you all, this has been informative. Im still having a problem in calculating how much of each ingredient I need..and came across this as an example from txcraig1's dough formulation for neopolitan pizza.

100% Caputo (my typical batch is ~1.3kg flour)
62.5% Water at about 40-45F (play with this over time in a range of 60-64%)
3.0% Salt (I would not go lower than 2.5% or more than maybe 3.1%)
1.3% Ischia Culture (fully active) NO FRESH YEAST, IDY, or ADY!!! Trust your culture. The hydration and flour you use in your culture donít matter much at quantities this low.  Iím probably a little stiffer than 100%, but I doubt it is significant.
So I get that I need 2.86 lbs of flour in this case.
How do I use the rest of the numbers here to reflect cups of water for instance? teaspoons of salt, culture ect.
What does 62.5 per cent of water....since i have the flour in lbs, Im assuming water isn't measured in pounds but cups?
how many teaspoons for 3.0 per cent salt, 1.3 per cent ischia culture..and what is Ischia Culture. Is that the same as bread yeast ? or active yeast.
Once I understand how to convert these percentages properly into cups,teaspoons ect. I'll try experimenting. Also when looking at the pics of his finished dough he uses before making the crust. It looks extremely silky smooth. i have never gotten dough to look like this before. I am assuming if I can get the consistency of this dough like he shows in the pics, I'll be able to get the char and texture I'm looking for.  I will also try what many have said about bringing the blackstone up to 700 degrees and then turning the flame down until the crust starts charring like i'd like then back up to finish the top. .  Thank you in advance for not making fun of a newbie and being patient with my questions. Hopefully the explanations will help everyone here who is struggling with interpretations themselves.
Here is the original posting that shows how txcraig makes his excellent dough, which I'm trying to use as my role model, lol
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.msg202047.html#msg202047
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 11:47:24 AM by abacus »

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2014, 12:13:40 PM »
All measurements are by weight, unless explicitly stated otherwise (small amounts of yeast in fractions of a tsp, etc). It's much easier to keep it metric; any digital scale should have it as an option.

Offline moose13

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2014, 12:42:50 PM »
Ok this is the same recipe i used last. You MUST use weight, so you will need a scale. Period. Like i said before a cup of flour is not a cup of flour. A cup of water is always a cup as you cannot compress water. So you can see how your dry vs. water measurements will easily get screwed up.
Start with the Lehmann dough calculator http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html and put in your dough ball weight you would like to use. In my example here i used 300g. Once you tell it how many dough balls and weight you will simply plug in the percentages of the other ingredients. It will come up with all the weights for you.

Flour (100%):    539.57 g  |  19.03 oz | 1.19 lbs
Water (62.5%):    337.23 g  |  11.9 oz | 0.74 lbs
IDY (1.3%):    7.01 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.33 tsp | 0.78 tbsp
Salt (3%):    16.19 g | 0.57 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.9 tsp | 0.97 tbsp
Total (166.8%):   900 g | 31.75 oz | 1.98 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs

My digital scale is in grams and ounces. I use grams as i can get a more accurate measurement. Just try the calculator once with 325g dough balls and 2 of them. It will make sense once you try it.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 12:46:52 PM by moose13 »

Offline abacus

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2014, 02:18:14 PM »
Moose thanks, so it always goes by weight. You wrote
IDY (1.3%):    7.01 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.33 tsp | 0.78 tbsp
Salt (3%):    16.19 g | 0.57 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.9 tsp | 0.97 tbsp
Total (166.8%):   900 g | 31.75 oz | 1.98 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs Shouldnt the IDY be  a little over a teaspoon if salt is 3 per cent the idy is approx 1/3 that???? Not 2.33 teaspoons. Just asking

Offline deb415611

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2014, 02:27:32 PM »
Moose thanks, so it always goes by weight. You wrote
IDY (1.3%):    7.01 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.33 tsp | 0.78 tbsp
Salt (3%):    16.19 g | 0.57 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.9 tsp | 0.97 tbsp
Total (166.8%):   900 g | 31.75 oz | 1.98 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs Shouldnt the IDY be  a little over a teaspoon if salt is 3 per cent the idy is approx 1/3 that???? Not 2.33 teaspoons. Just asking

yeast and salt do not have the same weight so it wouldn't be 1 for 1 for teaspoons

Offline abacus

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2014, 06:01:16 PM »
If we are going by percent, i assume its a percent of the whole?. This is way too confusing. Even the oz listed the salt is twice the yeast. Guess ill have to find receipes that are more logical to me

Offline jsaras

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2014, 06:27:49 PM »
From the glossary:

"BAKER'S PERCENTS (OR PERCENTAGES): A mathematical tool and "language" used by bakers to analyze recipes and to scale or re-size recipes up or down in quantity. It is a weight-based system in which the percentage of each ingredient is stated in relation to the weight of the flour, which always has a baker's percent of 100%. In the context of pizza dough production, baker's percents can be used to determine the quantities of ingredients required to make any dough batch size or number of pizzas of any given size and crust thickness."
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Offline vtsteve

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2014, 11:52:43 PM »
Well, 3% *is* about twice as much as 1.3%... rounding off a little, 3% of the flour weight (540g) is 16.2g

The 'oz' is 1/16 of a pound, not a pint (weight vs. fluid oz.) - and it's also about double, but the round-off is worse.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 09:55:11 AM by vtsteve »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Cant seem to get the Crispy crust from Blackstone oven not sure why?
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2014, 11:57:27 PM »
If we are going by percent, i assume its a percent of the whole?. This is way too confusing. Even the oz listed the salt is twice the yeast. Guess ill have to find receipes that are more logical to me
Who the hell is `oz` man?
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