Author Topic: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza  (Read 2577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline breadstoneovens

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 523
  • Location: Dallas, TX
    • Bread Stone Ovens
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 10:25:18 PM »
I may be jumping in a little late but here is my feedback.

As far as wall or dome materials there is a difference. I didn't want to believe it at first but now I experienced it for my self.
The refractory bricks make  a pretty big difference compare to the refractory concrete. FGM was able to compare side by side and found the bricked dome is 20 to 25% more efficient than a concrete dome. I am talking fire bricks made for a wood fired oven not the cheap fire bricks used for a fireplace.
Over all for the same walls thickness with a bricked dome, the oven heats-up faster, the natural convection is more efficient and the oven stays hot just as long.

I have had many costumers, mostly commercial user, who reported the same thing. They got to try different types / brands of ovens and after trying an FGM with the bricked dome they were sold. Some of them are now repeat costumers as they expended their business.
At this point most of my costumers take a bricked dome for the superior performance.

It is possible to cook a Neapolitan pizza in a small oven like the 700, some members can witness of that, but it takes more practice. The pizza being so close to the fire it is not very forgiving.
Ideally, I agree with Craig a 950 size oven is perfect, but I would say being able to cook with an 800 is already pretty good.

When you look at an oven, I strongly recommend to do serious research and ensure the oven you will be getting includes more than just an oven floor, dome and a sheet metal door. You will certainly start with pizza but I can guaranty anyone who buys an oven they will want to bake bread, smoke, grill, do rotisserie and much more. Just make sure it offers all of that.
Also it needs to be reputable company with BBB accreditation and so on.

The concern over, what do I do if I move is very legitimate. Having recently relocated my self, I certainly wish I could have taken my oven with me.
With the help of some costumers and forum members (they will recognize them self) I have developed a mobile cart option like the one attached. Not only you can move it around on a patio, but you can take with you no problem. Here is a picture of the last one I have put together for a client in Florida and he knows he will be moving with it.
There is also, to another costumer's request, a metal finish dome in the works. Picture of the prototype attached, just sent it to be powder coated.

I am happy to hear more suggestion on what people would like to see as it helps me offering a better product.

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.


Offline Pizzaiolo7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Location: Il mondo
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 10:44:40 PM »

It is possible to cook a Neapolitan pizza in a small oven like the 700, some members can witness of that, but it takes more practice. The pizza being so close to the fire it is not very forgiving.
Ideally, I agree with Craig a 950 size oven is perfect, but I would say being able to cook with an 800 is already pretty good.


Antoine,

Thank you for the thoughtful response!

Pardon my naivety, but can you explain as to what a "700" oven is compared to a "950"?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 11:10:38 PM by Pizzaiolo7 »

Offline breadstoneovens

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 523
  • Location: Dallas, TX
    • Bread Stone Ovens
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 11:14:15 PM »
Pardon my naivety, but can you extrapolate as to what a "700" oven is compared to a "950"?

Not naivety just strange European measurements  :-D

The 700 is a 700 millimeters or 70 centimeters of inner diameter oven or right about 27"1/2 of cooking floor inner diameter. The next size up is the 800 or 32"1/2.
Finely the 950 and most popular is a 37"1/2 inner diameter oven.
All those ovens have a 2" refractory concrete floor with 1"1/4 thick hand made refractory brick tiles that you cook on. Then you have the option of the concrete dome which is a casted refractory concrete referred as "C" or a bricked dome referred as "B". Bricked dome is made of 1"1/4 thick refractory bricks with a casted refractory concrete in the back to keep everything together.
The dome bricks have a special V grove in the back to anchor them in the concrete so they can't fall off.
The concrete is a refractory concrete reinforced with metal fibers in it. Just like a concrete slab that requires rebar reinforcement to prevent cracking and deteriorating over time, a refractory concrete should be reinforced.
The dome thickness is 3"1/4 minimum and much more in some areas.
The ovens have the same low dome at 9"1/2 tall but can be raised 3" which brings it to 12"1/2.

All the ovens you see on my website have 2 doors, insulated door and hinge mounted cast iron door, dome thermometer, damper, top and bottom insulation.

So from a 700 to a 950 different cooking floor sizes but same quality.

Some manufacturer may go as small as a 500 size oven, 20", but it is way too small to do anything but burn some wood.

Hope this answers your question.

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline jhrcdn

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Canada
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2013, 12:31:55 PM »
Antoine--just to confirm... is the Neapolitan Pizza oven on your Breadstone site the same as the FGM 700?

Thanks in advance!

Jamie

Offline breadstoneovens

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 523
  • Location: Dallas, TX
    • Bread Stone Ovens
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2013, 01:03:05 PM »
Antoine--just to confirm... is the Neapolitan Pizza oven on your Breadstone site the same as the FGM 700?

Hi Jamie,

The Neapolitan is a "700" size oven with a 27"1/2 inner diameter. FGM calls it the 700 A.
It is more a pizza oven, fast heat-up, due to the 2"1/4 floor and dome thickness rather than the regular 3"1/4 material thickness on the 700 B-C ovens.
You can make your first pizza after about 30 minutes of firing and about 1,5 hours to heat-up to the core.
It is entirely made of refractory concrete, no brick floor tiles, but it is an option should you want it.
 
If you chose the Extended package, it comes with the sames features, 2 doors, damper, thermometer and so on.

Let me know if you need more details or pictures.

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline Pizzaiolo7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Location: Il mondo
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2013, 11:18:33 PM »

The concern over, what do I do if I move is very legitimate. Having recently relocated my self, I certainly wish I could have taken my oven with me.
With the help of some costumers and forum members (they will recognize them self) I have developed a mobile cart option like the one attached. Not only you can move it around on a patio, but you can take with you no problem. Here is a picture of the last one I have put together for a client in Florida and he knows he will be moving with it.

Antoine

Antoine,

How did you construct your mobile cart? I am definitely interested in this option. Over the past couple of days, I have taken measurements of the potential area for the oven and it looks like an 800 will work, with a 950 likely out of the picture.

With the 950, I wouldn't be able to appropriately maneuver the into my backyard area and it would be extremely difficult to store the oven under an existing overhang. From what I have read on this blog (and what you have said), it seems like an 800 is capable of pumping out some great pizzas. But it will obviously take patience and time.

However, my concern is that I would be compromising heat balance for size/convenience. Being new to WFOs, I would like to make the most informed decision before shelling over the $$$.

Offline breadstoneovens

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 523
  • Location: Dallas, TX
    • Bread Stone Ovens
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2013, 10:32:27 AM »
Good morning Pizzaiolo7,

The base frame with the gussets is 36" square. Then on top of the frame you have the oven base which is as follow:
- 950 size it is 50" deep (+ 5" for the damper handle) by 55" wide.
- 800 size it is 45" deep (+ 5" for the damper handle) by 50" wide.

In ideal conditions ( space money, budget, ... ) a 950 is the way to go. However I have cooked for years in a 700 at home due to space / money restrictions and loved it.
I have also cooked commercially for 2 years in an 800 and was able to cook 2 pizza at a time with grate results.

I would certainly say that the heat is well balanced with the 800, the pizza would just be a little closer to the fire , 5", than with a 950.
There are some members on this forum with an 800 and I think they are very happy with it and cooked some nice pizza, even for beginners.

Also, it is a plus to put the oven under a covered area, but not a requirement as once finished, it is weather proof.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline jhrcdn

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Canada
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Thoughts on a WFO for Neapolitan Pizza
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2013, 11:05:56 AM »
Hi Jamie,

The Neapolitan is a "700" size oven with a 27"1/2 inner diameter. FGM calls it the 700 A.
It is more a pizza oven, fast heat-up, due to the 2"1/4 floor and dome thickness rather than the regular 3"1/4 material thickness on the 700 B-C ovens.
You can make your first pizza after about 30 minutes of firing and about 1,5 hours to heat-up to the core.
It is entirely made of refractory concrete, no brick floor tiles, but it is an option should you want it.
 
If you chose the Extended package, it comes with the sames features, 2 doors, damper, thermometer and so on.

Let me know if you need more details or pictures.

Antoine

Thanks Antoine! I appreciate your response and will send you a PM! I'd love some more details.