Author Topic: Prepped Skin Storage  (Read 1856 times)

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Offline wsonner

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Prepped Skin Storage
« on: September 07, 2013, 07:57:26 PM »
I'm starting to pick up in sales volume and I'm going to need to start prepping skins ahead of time to keep up.  I'm looking for ideas on how to store them so that they are fresh and not stiff or dried out when I need them.  My crusts are a sheeted, laminated cracker/American style.  Any ideas?

Wes


Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 11:54:59 PM »
The problem is your desire style. The shins need to go from the sheeter, to the toppings  to the oven asap to remain a cracker crust.
If you per baked the crust you will get a slightly different product but may be exceptable?
Lloyds pans make a stacking pan that skins can be stored in. In your case dock very well before you top than bake asap. again you will have a slightly different product but again it may be ok?

Sonny

Offline fazzari

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 01:51:03 AM »
I'm starting to pick up in sales volume and I'm going to need to start prepping skins ahead of time to keep up.  I'm looking for ideas on how to store them so that they are fresh and not stiff or dried out when I need them.  My crusts are a sheeted, laminated cracker/American style.  Any ideas?

Sheet them, cut them out, stack them between sheets of parchment or even wax paper, and refrigerate.  You should be able to take them straight from refrigeration to makeup peel to oven.

John

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 03:27:27 PM »
I have tried what you just suggested and the continued yeast activity has taken 1/8 skins to near a 1/4 inch in a day? that is why I said dock well but that is not the same as a sheeter. I also tried a rolling pin to flatten but was changing the size also,  docking does not change the size. also in the pan you can de gas some with the tips of your fingers. The pan restricts size change but I am alway learning so how do you stop the continued proofing? or de gas like a sheeter?

I have a dough press. They are a mixed blessing but in high demand they can make a thin skin quick,  top it get it to the oven, cook at high temperature direct on the deck. it is not the same as a sheeter but may be acceptable?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 03:36:02 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 03:54:10 PM »
Sonny, your problem is that you used WAY too much yeast, at least if you were trying to make the same kind of pizza wsonner is talking about. Also, based on your other posts, I'm guessing your dough has a 20-30% higher hydration figure than wsonner's dough.

Fazzari's answer is really all that needed to be said.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 04:02:29 PM »
Wes,

You might also check this out for some ideas:

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=595&p=2775&hilit=p2275

Peter

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 04:19:16 PM »
This is a idea I had to meet peek demands. I was very impressed with my tests. but I have not decided what route it depends on the location I find to rent.
I had a machine shop make a 14.5" aluminum plate 1/4 thick.

I pressed out a 16" thin shin in the dough press. I cooked on parchment paper with plate centered.  It made a beautiful par baked crust in about 5 minutes with very nice handle and a very nice thin skin. 

You could spread your work load though the day with just one employee yet when it came time for the peak a lot of pizzas could be baked quick.
Just one of the many things I have tried but very impressed with the results. I think it would save time.
I have par bake without the plate that works also but the ones with the plate was great.

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 04:33:56 PM »
Ryan
Even though I have been at 80% for testing most of my bakes have been at 60% hydration. Is that to high?  because if you say yes I will spend time testing at lower hydration. The problem I notice with my few attempts at 55% and below is I think taste suffers but maybe just my lack of experience?
Ater I joint this forum I changed my % IDY to about .3%. Is that to high? yes I do have the problem of continuing to proof
Sonny

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 04:41:31 PM »
wsonner;

If you are going after the cracker and laminating then you are probably keeping it as thin as possible (considering the weight of the toppings in balance).  By sheeting and moving to the fridge you need low yeast percentages to help control rise. You will get rise after sheeting making that nice thin cracker a little thicker than you may want. After all the whole idea of laminating is to create distinctive layers of “crispyness” – rise will ruin those distinctive layers to some degree.  You have some choices: Par bake to kill the yeast or reduce yeast to reduce rise.  You will have to experiment with the percentages; I found success with percentages at .10 to .15 (IDY) which keeps my crackers thin @ 34-36 degrees for several hours.  My sweet spot is .375 for most others but the cracker at that percentage is too much rise – but the flavor is better…..The other situation you may encounter is the cracker is supposed to be dry where the fridge does add some moisture so again you will need to experiment.

If you are not going after the thinness of the cracker you have less of an issue with rise, reducing yeast will still help keep your thickness in line.

In either case, you can put the skins on sheet trays, insert into a sheet pan rack and roll into the fridge – cover with a rack cover and pull out a sheet at a time when ready. 

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 06:26:38 PM »
Ryan
Even though I have been at 80% for testing most of my bakes have been at 60% hydration. Is that to high?  because if you say yes I will spend time testing at lower hydration. The problem I notice with my few attempts at 55% and below is I think taste suffers but maybe just my lack of experience?
Ater I joint this forum I changed my % IDY to about .3%. Is that to high? yes I do have the problem of continuing to proof
Sonny

Yeah, I'd say 60% hydration is higher than what could be considered cracker crust. You might be able to make something crackery out of dough that soft, but I think it would take a lot of creativity and a lot more bench flour.

The pics below are of a pizza made of dough that was 43% hydration + 5% shortening. I'd say this pizza fits very well into the cracker style category, but if I raised the hydration (or effective hydration) much more than a few percent, it would probably become something other than cracker crust. I'd say most people consider cracker crust dough to be even lower hydration than what I used for this pizza. If you drop my hydration figure by about 3-4%, then you're basically making Shakey's dough. It seems to me that a lot of the cracker style doughs here on the forum go as low as nearly 35% hydration. (I'm not sure what the fat/oil percentages are with those pizzas, though.)

I don't think your IDY percentage seems high at all. In fact, it seems pretty low to me. But yeast does its job much faster in 60% hydration dough than it does in 40% hydration dough. If I had used 0.3% IDY to make the pizza in these pics, I would've had to wait a very long time for the dough to be ready to use. I used 1.15% IDY, and I think I probably should have used more. (I've always used ADY until very recently, so I'm still trying to get the IDY conversion worked out. Also, I'm not sure if this jar of IDY is in peak condition.)


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 06:31:53 PM »
The pics below are of a pizza made of dough that was 43% hydration + 5% shortening.

Actually I think this one was 4% shortening.

Offline wsonner

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 06:51:37 PM »
Thanks everyone. I'll make some trials.

Wes

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 07:08:38 PM »
You have some choices: Par bake to kill the yeast or reduce yeast to reduce rise.

Parbaking is very impractical in a pizzeria setting. Besides, I think it's pretty clear that Wes was not asking for help reinventing the wheel. He already has a system. He just needed to adapt it to growing demand, and fazzari told him everything he needs to know in two sentences.

You will have to experiment with the percentages; I found success with percentages at .10 to .15 (IDY) which keeps my crackers thin @ 34-36 degrees for several hours.  My sweet spot is .375 for most others but the cracker at that percentage is too much rise – but the flavor is better.

Sounds like you're talking about something that's not true cracker style dough. True (stiff) cracker style dough requires much more yeast than just about any other kind of dough. I used to think it required a small amount of yeast, too, because I knew Pizza Hut T&C dough does not noticeably rise from open to close (in the early 90s, when they still made dough on-site). But I was wrong. Pizza Hut thin dough didn't rise much because the dough is hard as a rock. There's a ton of yeast in it. There has to be, because stiff dough without a ton of yeast essentially never ferments.

If you are not going after the thinness of the cracker you have less of an issue with rise, reducing yeast will still help keep your thickness in line.

...if your dough is not a stiff cracker style dough.

In either case, you can put the skins on sheet trays, insert into a sheet pan rack and roll into the fridge – cover with a rack cover and pull out a sheet at a time when ready.

Agreed.

Do you mind telling us the hydration and fat percentage of your dough, Wes? (Just in case I was wrong about everything I've said here.)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 07:27:19 PM »
Ryan,

I believe Wes' dough formulation is the one for his Round Table clone at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27274.msg276178.html#msg276178

Peter

Offline fazzari

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 07:37:28 PM »
Wes
I'm sorry I don't know the whole process that you use...but I'm assuming you are sheeting an already fermented dough (maybe a day?).  You can work on lowering hydration for sure, but another trick is to simply put your sheeted skins in the freezer to "really" cool them off...shouldn't take to long and it works marvelously

John

Offline wsonner

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 07:51:26 PM »
Sorry, I should have put this in the original post:

Here is my Dough recipe and processing:
 
           Formula   Recipe (grams) 1 ball
     
Dough     
Flour           100.00%       410
Water           48.00%       197
Salt                1.75%          7
Crisco             1.50%          6
Sugar             1.00%          4
NF Dry Milk      1.00%          4
ADY                 0.50%          2
Total                               630


They come out of the mixer and immediately into the fridge at 38 degrees for a minimum of 24 hours. Then I pull them out 3 hours before sheeting.  I am open to adjusting that process to achieve the end goal of being able to pre-sheet, if that's really possible.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 07:55:55 PM by wsonner »

Offline wsonner

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2013, 07:53:42 PM »
By the way, a true thin cracker crust is not really my goal.  The Round Table crust I've been trying to emulate has been described as more of a hybrid cracker/American crust.  But I'm only repeating what I've heard. I'm still just learning in so many ways.

Wes

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2013, 08:11:38 PM »
Sorry if I've seemed argumentative and ultra intense, guys. I don't mean to come off that way.

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2013, 08:14:13 PM »
Ryan
Thank you for the post and photos. I learn something. That is why I came. I will read more and try much lower hydration
Sonny

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Prepped Skin Storage
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2013, 09:24:28 PM »
Parbaking is very impractical in a pizzeria setting. Besides, I think it's pretty clear that Wes was not asking for help reinventing the wheel. He already has a system. He just needed to adapt it to growing demand, and fazzari told him everything he needs to know in two sentences.

Actually it's not impractical and thank you for letting me know what is and is not clear ( in your mind )

Sounds like you're talking about something that's not true cracker style dough. True (stiff) cracker style dough requires much more yeast than just about any other kind of dough. I used to think it required a small amount of yeast, too, because I knew Pizza Hut T&C dough does not noticeably rise from open to close (in the early 90s, when they still made dough on-site). But I was wrong. Pizza Hut thin dough didn't rise much because the dough is hard as a rock. There's a ton of yeast in it. There has to be, because stiff dough without a ton of
yeast essentially never ferments.

Actually, yeast plays a major role in dough management, which is what he was discussing.  Crackers do not require tons of yeast, and Pizza Hut does not make a cracker. 

...if your dough is not a stiff cracker style dough.

This is what I said


Agreed.

Do you mind telling us the hydration and fat percentage of your dough, Wes? (Just in case I was wrong about everything I've said here.)