Author Topic: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea  (Read 1817 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« on: September 07, 2013, 07:18:38 AM »
Hey guys,

As much as I love pizza, my real love is grilling.  I've grilled pizzas directly on the grill grate, which provides a nice pizza, but in my opinion it is no where near as good as a pizza stone pizza.  My goal was to get my high quality indoor oven pizza stone method (the typical 550 preheat with a broiler finish) to also work on a standard Weber charcoal kettle.  I got a pizza stone from Red Sky Grilling and the first few times I used it I failed miserably.  The stone was hotter than the dome temperature, which burnt the bottom of the pizza and left unmelted cheese and raw dough on top.  I'm aware that this doesn't happen on Green Eggs and other grills that have that ceramic heat retention ability.   This issue might also not happen if you have a real small pizza stone.  The problem I was having was that not enough heat was coming up around the stone to heat the dome of the grill.  This problem is common when you only place coals directly under the stone, or when you have a HUGE pizza stone.

Anyway, I think my solution is unique and I wanted to post it here, in case anyone else was having this problem as well.   

My solution is to put a fully charcoal basket on top of the grill grate, next to the pizza stone.  A little bit of charcoal under the pizza stone is enough to get the stone hot enough for a great pizza, and the charcoal basket sitting on top of the grate is enough to heat the top of the pizza.   This is similar to a brick oven pizza where the flame source is sitting next to the pizza pie.

It worked perfectly.

More exact details are posted over at my Grilling Blog:  http://grilling24x7.com/stone.shtml.

Let me know if anyone has any questions or ideas.

John




Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 07:19:47 AM »
Did a plain cheese pie too. 

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven .com
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 08:19:16 AM »
That looks good. How long was your bake time?
Bert,

Offline sonny.eymann

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: Panama City, Panama
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 06:43:11 PM »
It sounds as if you have a solution.

I have cooked for long time on a webber gas grill and the green egg. The gas grill is better because you can control the temperature.  The green egg is more difficult to arrive at the same results consistently. here is how I do and a place to start if you have not did before.

If the smoky flavor is desired?  Then put wood chips in aluminum foil on the gas heat deflector and as the stone is preheat, the chips will smoke. Heat the stone to about 500F that is about  the medium setting on my grill.
The challenge is finishing the top before the bottom burns. The higher temperature you attempt to cook at, the less margin for error. also you can stack the odds better toward success by cooking on parchment paper.

 load the pizza, close the lid. you can not look. that is why you must be very consistent in your procedure. When you look the cook of top is over. When you open to look you lose the top heat and it take several minutes to return and the bottom over cooks.

My grill will cook very nicely in 9 minutes. You will have to experiment to find what works on your grill. again do not look, be consistent and use a timer.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 06:46:56 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 08:33:04 PM »
That looks good. How long was your bake time?

This is a good question.  I was focused more on rotating the pizza and keeping it evenly browned.  I'm guessing in the 5-10 min range.  I don't remember.  Shame on me!

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven .com
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 08:56:40 PM »
I agree with sonny, gas so much easier. I have experimenting with charcoal using MPO.  So far, I have not reached a consistent results. It looks promising. just need to figure out the amout of charcoal to use and how to arrange it under the MPO (in my case). Today,  I tried charcoal and wood combination, the temp were really high, beyond control. next week, I will try just charcoal.

To get higher bottom temp, try doubling the amount of charcoal you are using.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 08:58:12 PM by MightyPizzaOven »
Bert,

Offline sonny.eymann

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: Panama City, Panama
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 11:11:46 PM »
John
I do not mean to be disrespectful but looking at your photos the cooking profile of what you did is is way off. you can see the crust near the deck is well browned yet your cheese is no more than just melted.  You need much more top heat. the only way to do that on a grill is to leave the lid on until you think it is done. When you look by taking the lid off on this cook you are finished with the top. if it is not correct. adjust the time next cook.
You can reduce the bottom heat by using a pan or parchment paper or in this case a silicon cooking liner slows the heat  to the bottom of the crust and gives more time to cook the top.

I attached a photo of a correct cooking profile.
Again it is very difficult to do on a charcoal grill, consistently. build a dome over your grill?

Sonny

Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 07:37:51 AM »
John
I do not mean to be disrespectful but looking at your photos the cooking profile of what you did is is way off. you can see the crust near the deck is well browned yet your cheese is no more than just melted.  You need much more top heat. the only way to do that on a grill is to leave the lid on until you think it is done. When you look by taking the lid off on this cook you are finished with the top. if it is not correct. adjust the time next cook.
You can reduce the bottom heat by using a pan or parchment paper or in this case a silicon cooking liner slows the heat  to the bottom of the crust and gives more time to cook the top.

I attached a photo of a correct cooking profile.
Again it is very difficult to do on a charcoal grill, consistently. build a dome over your grill?

Sonny

Sonny,
No problem at all.  This is why I posted.  I want feedback and ideas!

I think what needs to actually happen is to have much less charcoal underneath of the stone and much more coal sitting in the charcoal basket.

When I open the dome you are correct in that most of the heat leaves.  However, since there is a really hot basket of charcoal sitting right up top of the grate.  This replenishes the dome temperature almost immediately.  I saw that with the thermometer.  So if I can just jack up the heat on the grate, and lessen the stone a bit more I think Ill be even better.

The reason I was excited with the above results is because it was SO BAD when I did it according to the standard method.  The stone I have is HUGE and doesn't allow much heat to escape from underneath of it.  I literally had 650 degree stone and 300 dome.  Now that is a way off cooking profile.  Adding the coal to the grate switches that temperature profile completely. 


I think that this is the key for charcoal pizza stones:  haves less coal underneath of the stone and have more coal in the areas around the stone (or in this case, on top of the grate).  Trial and error for sure!


Thanks guys!

John

Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 07:44:21 AM »
I agree with sonny, gas so much easier. I have experimenting with charcoal using MPO.  So far, I have not reached a consistent results. It looks promising. just need to figure out the amout of charcoal to use and how to arrange it under the MPO (in my case). Today,  I tried charcoal and wood combination, the temp were really high, beyond control. next week, I will try just charcoal.

To get higher bottom temp, try doubling the amount of charcoal you are using.

Your photo shows ALOT of coal.  That looks like ideal steak cooking temps.   If you are cooking pizza directly on the grate, I'd cut that down a lot.  If you are putting a stone on there I'd really stack the coal all around the bottom perimeter of the grill so that heat comes up and over.   Just my $0.02.

John

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven .com
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 08:55:32 AM »
Gun temp showed 428 deg f, that is why I recommended more coal.

I am trying to achieve neo bake temperature over 800 f, which makes it harder to balance. Ther is not enough room to use c shape under MPO.  Trying different approaches.

Bert,


Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven .com
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 09:03:32 AM »
It was lots of coal, stone temp was over 900, I will try 2/3 next time.
Bert,

Offline sonny.eymann

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: Panama City, Panama
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 02:54:03 PM »
John
I think you have an almost impossible task. If if you succeed once it will be hard to reproduce reliably.

Wood ovens cook over a wide range of temperatures. They are able to do that because they have a dome that traps heat. There are many home built wood ovens with uninsulated domes and even they do not usually pro form very well.

You need a insulated dome or do not open the lid to look.  sorry :-D

If you continue trying?  reduce the size of the stone to help the heat to the dome.  cut a horizon slit in the lid? so you can see and rotate the pizza without removing the lid.

Good luck

Offline sonny.eymann

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: Panama City, Panama
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 03:07:19 PM »
John

Another suggestion try cooking in a steel pan or a cast iron skillet that would reduce the bottom heat because of mass and lower thermal conductive

Sonny

Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 06:00:01 PM »
It was lots of coal, stone temp was over 900, I will try 2/3 next time.

Bert,
I just clicked your link!  Pretty cool gizmo you have there!

John

Offline Grilling24x7

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
    • Grilling 24x7
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 06:01:40 PM »
John
I think you have an almost impossible task. If if you succeed once it will be hard to reproduce reliably.

Wood ovens cook over a wide range of temperatures. They are able to do that because they have a dome that traps heat. There are many home built wood ovens with uninsulated domes and even they do not usually pro form very well.

You need a insulated dome or do not open the lid to look.  sorry :-D

If you continue trying?  reduce the size of the stone to help the heat to the dome.  cut a horizon slit in the lid? so you can see and rotate the pizza without removing the lid.

Good luck

For sure, a smaller stone would certainly help.   I'll keep you guys posted.  I'm certain I can pull this off b/c I know I can add much more coal up top.  Now will I get a 900 degree stone and a 900 degree dome?  No way.  But I'm sure I can get a 450 stone and a 500-600 dome, which should be just enough.

Thanks for all the thought!

John

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven .com
Re: Using a Pizza Stone on a Charcoal Grill - New idea
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 07:39:44 PM »
Bert,
I just clicked your link!  Pretty cool gizmo you have there!

John

Thanks John. 
Bert,