Author Topic: cooking on lloyds pans  (Read 1375 times)

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Offline sonny.eymann

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cooking on lloyds pans
« on: September 15, 2013, 05:54:14 PM »
I have bought a variety of lloyds pans.  deep dish with lids.  regular pans, regular pans with round holes and the new hex disk.

First,  my oven is a counter top deck oven by Nemco with 2 decks, so I can cook 2 pizzas up to 19". One problem is I have no control over the heat from the top to change the cooking profile other than put a lid or cover over the pizza.

My oven cooks direct on the deck in 10 minutes at 500F. I am getting a good cook profile. nice bottom color and I would like a little more browning of the cheese but good bake.

The problem that I have and the reason I wanted to try the lloyds pans. I do not like to form pizza in flour or cornmeal. It is messy and I don't like the flour or cornmeal that is left on the pizza and left in the oven. The procedure does work well with lower hydration pizza but when the hydration goes above 62% it gets more difficult to deliver the pizza without using excess bench flour. that effects the product in a way I don't like. I know others will not agree with me.

I have cooked on parchment paper in my oven it is a good combination with my oven but I would like the lloyds pans to work but I am having problems.

The good of the pans is the nonstick really does work.
the problem is that it takes  14 to 15 minutes at 500F to cook. I am only getting a light brown on the bottom and over cooking the top. I personally like the very brown and caramelized top but not all agree. the pan with holes is a little better and the hex disk are a touch of more improvement. What does work in my oven is removing the pan at 10 min and finishing direct on the deck in 2 or 2.5 minutes more.
I am not so worried about today but I am thinking ahead to opening a pizzeria.
I would like the option of cooking in the pan. any suggestion?
Baker Pride makes a electric oven with control of top and bottom heat. Does any one have experience?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 08:04:07 PM by sonny.eymann »


Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2013, 08:25:01 PM »
I like also making sicilian style pizzas at 70% to 80% hydration. Those pizza are working very well in the deep dish lloyd pans. Normally it is necessary to put a lot of oil in the bottom to keep the high hydration dough from sticking but with the nonstick working very well on the lloyds pans it is only necessary to make a light wipe of oil on the bottom. I am cooking at 500F for 15 minutes lid off  then 10 more minutes with the lid on. I am getting a very nice golden brown bottom with very nice  caramelized finish at the sides and beautiful color on the top and cheese.
It is a very good product

Offline mbrulato

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 09:38:30 PM »
Thanks.  That's great to know, Sonny.  I just ordered a Sicilian pan with lid last week from Lloyd's and it should be delivered on Tuesday. I had a steel one but didn't love it.  I am looking forward to using it  ;)

Mary Ann
Mary Ann

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 10:20:05 PM »
Mary Ann
I have cooked with the the lid on at the start than removed lid and
I have also cooked as i stated above. I think this is a better to leave the lid off as long as possible to let the moisture escape
FYI

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 08:56:20 AM »
Sonny;
The bake issues that you are presently having are a result of your oven not having any top heat control. When you go commercial you can opt for an oven with both top and bottom heat control to address those problems. Covering the top of the pizza with a piece of foil is a common way to balance the bake of a deep-dish pizza in a home oven or any oven that does not have top and bottom heat control. One neat trick that I've seen used with ovens like yours is to bake the pizza on the deck with a piece of foil covering the top of the pizza until you have the bottom color you are looking for, then place an inverted pan into the oven and place the pizza on top of the inverted pan without the foil covering. This insulates the bottom from the heat of the deck while moving the top of the pizza closer to the top of the oven where you will get better/faster color development to the top of the pizza. This is similar to what many people do in their home ovens where they bake the pizza on a lower rack position to get the bottom crust color/bake and then move it to a higher rack position to get the top color and finish baking.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline wsonner

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 09:53:28 AM »
Sonny,

I have the same oven and a similar crust.  I have worked on this quite a bit and my current procedure is to reduce the oven temp to about 475 and cook on a screen until the last 2 minutes or so and then use a peel to remove the pizza from the screen and finish baking directly on the stone.  This lets the top bake well without crisping up the crust too soon.

Wes

Offline wsonner

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 09:58:26 AM »
By the way, I just use regular old screens. My baking time is about 9 min for a 16" pie. 

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 02:27:40 PM »
Thanks Tom.
 I am going to the LV baking show in Oct. hope to see what I need.

Wes.
Do you have the 120volt or the 240volt oven? I wished I had the 240volt.
I have used ss screens in the past but not tried in the oven.
The lloyds pans I like the best is my deep dish with a lid and the pan with holes photo below. I like this pan with holes because I am forming in a dough press with out any die for handle and this pan cause extra spring at the handle. I cook on the pan 10 minutes and 2 more direct on the deck at 500f. that works
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 02:32:43 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline wsonner

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 02:34:12 PM »
Mine is the 240v. 

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 09:25:43 PM »
The pizza below was cook for 9 minutes at 500F in the lloyds Pan. Then cooked direct on the deck for 2 minutes


Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2013, 04:16:24 PM »
I have cooked 7 times in the lloyds deep dish pans. mostly sicilian style but 2 deep dish also. The nonstick works very well and very little oil is necessary as compared to a steel pan.  I have did hydrations from 60 to 80% all work great.

 The bake without excessive oil gives the bottom a very nice even brown color and texture without being oily and just fried. The lid gives the option of controlling the top heat.

Bake time at 500F for Sicilian are 22 to 25 minutes
Deep dish at 500F are 30 to 35 minutes  but There is a better cook window for deep dish at 450F but time is about 40 minutes. not good for a commercial application. I need to try par baking again


Offline mbrulato

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 04:23:33 PM »
Thanks for the timely information, Sonny.  My Sicilian pan and lid came in the mail today.  I'll make dough tonight and make for lunch tomorrow.  Do you parbake with sauce before you add the cheese?  If so, how much time for each?  Or do you use the lid and take off to let cheese melt/brown?

Thanks,
Mary Ann
Mary Ann

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2013, 06:28:51 PM »
No par baking. that is the reason the cooking times are long.
Sicilian style loaded normal. sauce, cheese and toppings.
Deep dish loaded, deep dish style. cheese toppings then sauce
My pans are 14 " and dough ball size 18 oz 
each bake different 60 to 80 % hydration.

Sonny
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 06:31:09 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline mbrulato

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2013, 06:47:21 PM »
My Sicilian recipe is 80% and my pan is 14" also.  I'll try 500 at 25 minutes and see what happens  :-D
Mary Ann

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2013, 07:10:21 PM »
I made a deep dish pizza tonight at 80% hydration in the lloyds bake 30 minutes at 450F  lid off then  8 more minutes lid on.
Pizza was very good. photo of the bottom looks lighter than reality. also next time I think I should put the lid on 5 minutes sooner
Sonny

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2013, 02:34:27 PM »
Bake today

This was a 14" pizza.  16.5 oz dough ball, 65% hydration cooked in a 14" deep dish pan but no lid was used.

Baked at 475 in the pan for 10 minutes. then direct on the deck for 3 minutes.

Pizza was form by hand direct in the pan light oiled. one thing the deep dish pan does well is to define a very round pizza

Very good pizza

Sonny

Online norma427

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2013, 03:39:14 PM »
Sonny,

That is a very nice tasty looking pizza.  8)

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2013, 09:13:25 PM »
I thought about starting a new topic but it is very related to this subject.

The reason for the lloyds pans in the first place was i don't like using flour or cornmeal to launch the pizza into the oven But My oven cooks a pizza direct on the deck with good balance top and bottom color in 10 minutes at 500F.

In the lloyds pans I need to remove the pizza from the pan in 9 to 10 minutes and direct on the deck 2 to 3 minutes.

Today I replace my half inch deck stone with new Fibrament 3/4" stones and changed the cook profile of my oven. the new stones are giving bottom color much quicker

I baked tonight 9 minutes in the lloyds pans and 2.5 minutes on the deck at 500F. Tomorrow I will leave on the lloyds pan the whole time and as the photos show much more heat to the bottom.

Moral of the story. I am sure that the quality of the fibrament stone is a much better  but changing to one may change the cook profile of your oven

« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 09:15:44 PM by sonny.eymann »

Offline mbrulato

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 01:06:11 PM »
I finally used my Lloyd's pan today and all I can say is, wow!  I may never order another Sicilian from a pizzeria again!!!  It was hands down the best I've ever made.  The crust was nice and brown using a minimal amount of EVOO in the pan.  It was crunchy yet it had a nice, airy crumb.  I baked it at 500 convection for 15 minutes and then baked it for another 10 minutes after adding the cheese.  I wish I knew about Lloyd's pans before I got my first Sicilian pan.

Mary Ann

Offline sonny.eymann

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Re: cooking on lloyds pans
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 08:18:57 PM »
I have completed 25 bakes in the lloyds pans.

some conclusions

The nonstick is great.
I like the deep dish pans with lids the best. by using a combination of bake in the pan and using the lid a little or lot changes the bake profile without having control of the top and bottom heat.
Just because I am using deep dish pans don't necessary mean you have to cook a deep dish pizza. I can stretch a thin crust as well and cook in the deep dish but  with thin crusts I end up taking the pizza out of the pan and finishing on the deck. that put a little more crisp to the bottom.
The negative to cooking in any pan is it adds  as much as 50% more cooking time.  Also it is a challenge to get thin crusts because of the extra time for the dough spring.

The bake tonight was total in the pan
recipe
10 oz flour    100%
5.8 oz water  58%
2% salt
2% sugar
dough wt was 16oz ball in a 14"pan
Baked at 500f
10 minutes lid off and 8 more minutes lid on
good pizza
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 08:20:58 PM by sonny.eymann »