Author Topic: 123 Pizza  (Read 13644 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1386
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2013, 08:48:04 PM »
Aww.  Thank you, Norma.  They were very good :)
Mary Ann


Online Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7229
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2013, 08:52:22 PM »
Scott, no rest after preheating.   The spacers even out the heat distribution.  Just fire it upto temps then lower flame and load.

Offline Serpentelli

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1171
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
    • Bat Man vs. The Penguin
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2013, 12:44:40 AM »
The metal tray underneath the stone on the 2stone is a parabola. Willard is a genius.

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2013, 02:39:46 PM »
I can't find Spring King flour (13.2% protein) to try Scott's NY pizza formula but I do have KASL (14.2%) and KABF (12.7%) and calculate that a blend of 1/3 KASL and 2/3 KABF will give me 13.2% protein. If anyone sees that I've figured this wrong please let me know. If you don't use it, you lose it and my algebra skills haven't been called on for awhile.
It's non-bromated flour, I know, but I've got to work with what I have.  :'(  Ok, here's a few questions for you pizza historians. Were they using bromated flour for NY pies in the old days? Or did they switch later on?
And finally, is it impossible to make a really good NY pizza w/o bromated flour?
It's time to take a break from Chi-town thin and move to NY style and the BS seems to be the right tool for the job.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23568
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2013, 02:58:56 PM »
Jay,

I ran your KASL/KABF scenario through the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ and your ratio is correct.

As for the use of bromated flour in olden times in NYC, according to this post by Evelyne Slomon it appears that such use was quite common, going back to the Depression: Reply 298 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg37081/topicseen.html#msg37081

Peter

Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2013, 03:20:14 PM »
Jay,

I ran your KASL/KABF scenario through the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ and your ratio is correct.

As for the use of bromated flour in olden times in NYC, according to this post by Evelyne Slomon it appears that such use was quite common, going back to the Depression: Reply 298 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg37081/topicseen.html#msg37081

Peter
Peter,
Thanks for checking my math. That Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator is a great tool, thanks for pointing that out.
And now I've got another thread to catch up on.  ;D

Jay

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2013, 10:54:03 AM »
Hmmm... I was a little wary of using the BS for NY, but that looks pretty darn good.  No excess char on the outer rim at all (something I was concerned about).  How much flame did you have?
Don't be wary...cook somethin on that sob man!  8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline wheelman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 849
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2013, 10:08:23 AM »
I've been playing around with the 123 recipe.  my dough last night was about 52 hours in balls in the refrigerator.  it wasn't really bubbly as I would expect and perhaps had not risen completely double.  I took it out a little late and put in in my dough box at about 85 for an hour.  the dough stretched to about 15".  I cooked the sauce a little with some onion, garlic and dry oregano.  used 50-50 grande mozz / provolone.  cooked in my oven on stone in high rack position for about 6-1/2 min.  the last min broiler was on.  it took longer to cook than pizzas in the past have with the same setup. 
I have another couple of doughs that i'm going to try tonight.  I hope to get some advice before then please!  I thought the dough was bready and lacked salt making for a not so great crust.  the sauce seemed sweet, maybe because of the onion?  I think i'll skip the pepperoni this time. 
any hints for better NY style?
thanks
bill

Offline slybarman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1060
  • Location: Maryland
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2013, 11:04:52 AM »
Scott:

Can you post or PM a link to the other (more difficult) recipe? Thanks.


Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2013, 01:33:29 PM »
Scott:
Can you post or PM a link to the other (more difficult) recipe? Thanks. 

I'm not sure it really is so much more difficult, but here it is:

The thread:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

The recipe (on the dough generator site):   http://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/recipe.php?recipe_id=23

Offline slybarman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1060
  • Location: Maryland
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2013, 02:28:19 PM »
Thank you.

Offline lennyk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 134
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2013, 08:14:23 PM »
Just did up 6 400g balls in the fridge now.
 0.5% is a little higher than i am accustomed to for 2 day cold rise but i guess i will see.

I usd cold water though just to ge safe.

Offline NickM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2013, 01:41:16 PM »
Made a couple of 15" 123pizzas over the weekend and they were my best to date.  I switched from KAAP to KABF and that made a huge difference.  I cut an 18" half inch steel plate at work (I work at a ship maintenance center) the other day so my next batch will be 17" pizzas (the dough balls are fermenting in he fridge right now).  I was wanting to upgrade to an even better flour.  Do you know where I can get my hands on King Spring (bleached bromated 13.2% protein).  Do most of you guys buy online or locally?  Anyways, thanks everyone for all of your help with perfecting my NY Style pizza.
-Nick

scott123

  • Guest
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2013, 04:45:40 PM »
Nick, as a restaurant owner, one of your most important responsibilities will be locating vendors and establishing relationships with those vendors.  Wholesale food is a massive business.  Just about everywhere you go in the U.S., you will find a considerable number of companies delivering food.  It's just a matter of tracking down the companies in your particular area.  You'll most likely have at least one of the national distributors (sysco, us foods, dawn, etc.) but you'll probably want to find regional companies as well.  You can't run a restaurant without these relationships.

And the sooner you find these companies and start developing the relationships, the better.  How do you find these companies?  Here's some methods that might prove to be fruitful.

1. Yellowpages/Superpages (look under food wholesale)
2. Call bakeries and see who they're sourcing their ingredients from.
3. Look for food trucks making deliveries- these trucks are making deliveries all the time, and will have their phone number on the side.
4. Call flour reps and ask them which distributors sell their product in your area

Spring King is put out by Progressive Baker/Cargill. According to their website, they don't distribute to the southeast.  Full Strength is just as good, though, and is put out General Mills.  Here is the contact information for their North Florida sales rep:

http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/find-sales-representative

Make sure they know that you're looking for bleached bromated full strength. Also, talk to him about either obtaining a sample or helping you track down a distributor that sells in small quantities. This kind of business to business liaising is what these reps do.

There's also a restaurant depot in Jacksonville

3389 Powers Avenue Jacksonville,  FL  32207
Phone: 904-733-1005

To join RD, you'll need either a tax id or know someone who has a tax id (it can be an id for any type of business). Getting a federal tax id is pretty easy, and, as far as I can tell, free. Since you're going to need one for your business anyway, you might as well get one.

MY local RD has full strength, but inventory varies from location to location.

Oh, and, nice pizza  :)  I can see a solid improvement.

Offline lennyk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 134
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2013, 07:35:29 PM »
made a second batch and I like it.
Last batch went as far as 4 days.
Chopped brisket ends coated with a little bbq sauce.

I like this dough in the 2:45-3min range just where overall it is browned/toasted but not in dry/hard territory yet.

Offline NickM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2013, 01:02:20 PM »
I finally got ahold of some commercial flour from a restaurant depot.  They didn't have Spring King or Full Strength so I bought All Trumps and mixed 67% AT with 33% KAAP.  The first attempt I tried a 62% hydration and dough was way too sticky and almost impossible to stretch and work with.  I might have mixed too long.  The second attempt I adjusted to a 56% hydration and a lot shorter mix time.  This dough was very easy to stretch and work with (after 48 hour cold ferment).  My biggest problem is that I need a larger peel to launch an 18" pizza.  I baked for 6 minutes which may have been too long because the bottom and sides were a little too charred.  I used 7/11 sauce with a little salt and sugar.  I added dried oregano and dried basil because I ran out of the fresh stuff (I know not to use dried basil but that was all I had).  I feel I am really making improvements but still have a long way to go.  Here's the latest results.

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1386
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2013, 01:16:30 PM »
I would eat it!  Good job, Nick.
Mary Ann


Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3854
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2013, 02:08:28 PM »
Looks Great!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2013, 08:06:11 PM »
Very nice....not even close to "too much char" from my view. Good work!  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline NickM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 123 Pizza
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2014, 06:11:52 PM »
Getting better thanks to your recipe Scott.  My stretching is getting better and the pizza is getting a lot thinner, more and more true NY style.  I am also down to a 4 minute bake time at 525 degrees on half inch steel.  I am getting tons of positive feedback from the guinea pigs at work that I bake for a couple of times a week.  I am also getting great results for garlic knots using 1 ounce balls rolled into roughly six inch strips and tied together baked on a cookie sheet right over the steel for about eight minutes (until golden brown)...then drizzle with melted butter and sprinkled with garlic powder!
I know this is a little off topic but I wanted advice about taking this adventure to the next level from you NY style experts.  I eventually want to start my own shop but I am in the Navy for one more year and want to gain experience selling my pizzas on a commercial level.  I want to start with a mobile oven trailer (not a full blown food truck but just a trailer with oven mounted).  I noticed a lot of WFO trailers on the market but I know most true NY style pizzas are produced on gas deck ovens.  Can I get advice on mobile ovens specifically for NY style pizza?  Is WFO the way to go and just crank down the heat or are there mobile options for deck or any other types?  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks! And here are the latest results:
The pizza was three meat (pepperoni, spicy Italian sausage, and bacon)
The garlic knots were terrific.


 

pizzapan