Author Topic: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago  (Read 5859 times)

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Offline JD

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2013, 03:19:28 PM »
Walter,

The answer to that question depends on the room temperature and the friction factor of Josh's mixer when he uses the method described at Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24265.msg262525.html#msg262525. For example, if his flour is at a room temperature of 70 degrees F and the friction factor of Josh's mixer making the dough the way he describes in Reply 22 referenced above is 20 degrees F (a guess on my part), and he uses water at 95 degrees F, then the finished dough temperature would be 85 degrees F. It's also possible in Josh's case that his room temperature is always lower than the temperature of the dough as it is being made. With two 10-minute rest periods, the warmer dough will give up heat to its surroundings during those rest periods and end up with a lower final temperature at the time that it is refrigerated.

Since Josh lives in Mississippi, it would be interesting to know his room temperature this time of year. I suspect that he has not conducted tests to determine the friction factor of his mixer using the method described in Reply 22.

Peter

Unsurprisingly, this is very accurate. My water temperature is 95* yes, but my flour/oil/salt/sugar is room temperature, which around this time is about 75*.

I happened to take a few temperature readings while doing my mixing method because I was curious if the high speed would over-heat the dough. Surprisingly at 62% hydration, I noticed little to no increase of temperature after a 30s high speed mix.

Once I mixed the flour with the water, it instantly lowered to 86*-88*, and you are correct the 10 minute rests bring the temperature down even further.


Offline waltertore

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2013, 03:40:50 PM »
 I wasn't up on all the facts.  I thought he mixed it straight through for a normal 8-10 minute period and came out with a cooler temp than starting.  I figured his other ingredients and room temp  must have been sub 0 :)  I never do rests with my pizza dough but do with my french bread dough.  Walter
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Online norma427

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2013, 05:27:07 PM »
Norma,

As you might recall, I had a fair amount of experience with the spotting phenomenon in the course of the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg33251.html#msg33251. In the course of that thread, I was trying to make doughs that would last for many days. I wasn't expecting to see spots in the doughs but once I started to observe them, that got my attention and I proceeded to conduct a wide variety of experiments to see if I could determine the cause or causes of the phenomenon. You can read a summary of those experiments at Reply 78 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg41385.html#msg41385. As you can see from that post, I largely blamed the flour for the spotting, specifically, the high-gluten flour that I was using. Also, I saw that the spotting tended to appear after several days of cold fermentation although in one case I saw the spots after 2-3 days.

More recently, Walter (waltertore), in a post earlier in this thread, at Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27729.msg280731/topicseen.html#msg280731, made the observation that got my attention that "long fermentations that started with cold water make for a more spotty dough". That was not something I had considered or tested before as a possible cause of spotting even though the doughs that I was making did make use of cold water. That was by design. I used the cold water to achieve low finished dough temperatures, along with the late addition of IDY, the use of metal storage containers, and short dough preparation times (usually about 10-12 minutes) with gentle kneading to keep the heat of friction down, all in order to extend the useful lives of the doughs to many days. It's possible that the spotting I observed at the time of my tests had something to do with the water temperature, not the type of flour.

As you know, spotting of the dough is harmless, whatever its causes. But, like you, I like to understand the causes, if only to tie up loose ends or to satisfy my curiosity.

Peter

Peter,

I do recall you had a fair amount of experience with the spotting phenomenon in the course of the thread you referenced.  I didn't recall that you saw some spots after 2-3 days.  I didn't know high gluten flours seem to be more responsible for the spotting phenomenon.  I guess I did not read your post enough the first time.   

Water's post about using really cold water (maybe with ice) is interesting in how that might cause spotty dough balls.

I always like to learn about what causes spotty doughs, although I know they are harmless.

Norma

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2013, 07:15:32 PM »
These were two of the spotty doughs Steve brought to market yesterday.  They also were from about a week ago.  We did not have time to try out the third one and only used these two dough balls at the end of the day.  The dough balls were taken out of Steve's fridge at home in the morning and left out at fairly high temperatures at market yesterday until they were used to make pizzas.  I forgot to take a photo of how much they fermented, but the dough balls reached the plastic lids until they were used to make pizzas.  The first one was only for a 10 pizza and that rim crust and bottom crust didn't brown a lot.  The second spotty dough ball was for a 15 pizza and it did have a little rim crust browning, some bottom crust coloring and some rim rise.  I don't know why both of them did not act the same.  I think it shows though that these dough balls fermented more until the point that the final pizzas did not have the same rim crust browning and bottom crust browning as last week. 

The first pizza had some drunken dried cherries that were put in Blackberry brandy I think.  I kept eating the drunken dried cherries.  They sure were tasty.  ;D

We used a older fresh mozzarella ball for the first pizza and really it did not melt well on that pizza.

The photos of the spotty dough balls were after Steve broke some of the bubbles.  Steve is a master in opening doughs that have become so fermented.

Norma

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2013, 07:17:46 PM »
Norma

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 09:19:53 PM »
Steve brought a dough ball over to market that he made two weeks ago.  So this dough ball also was a spotty dough ball.  The dough ball was grayer than my photos show.  I took the dough ball outside to try and get a better photo but that did not work out too well.  The dough ball was left out at room temperature until Steve made the pizza. 

What I was surprised at was the rim crust still browned well even though no sugar was added to Steve's  dough.  My photos really don't show how much the rim crust browned.  The rim even had good oven spring.  The 10 pizza tasted very good with an especially good taste in the crust.  I ate two slices and Steve also ate two slices.  The spotty dough ball opened well.

This was the same formulation Steve used in the other spotty doughs. 

I always find spotty dough balls interesting.    8)

Norma

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2013, 09:21:38 PM »
Norma

Offline JD

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2013, 10:35:07 AM »
Hi Norma,

I made my usual NY dough this weekend and noticed a spotty dough. It was not as obvious as before, but it was there.

Hopefully you can figure out the cause someday

Online norma427

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2013, 06:27:46 PM »
Hi Norma,

I made my usual NY dough this weekend and noticed a spotty dough. It was not as obvious as before, but it was there.

Hopefully you can figure out the cause someday

JD,

Thanks for telling me about your NY style spotty dough.  I have some tomato pie dough balls that had some spotting and they were on a one day cold ferment.  I know I will never figure out what exactly makes that spotting.   :-D

Norma


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2013, 07:01:39 PM »
Thanks for telling me about your NY style spotty dough.  I have some tomato pie dough balls that had some spotting and they were on a one day cold ferment.  I know I will never figure out what exactly makes that spotting.   :-D
Norma and others,

The good news is that the spotting is harmless and does not affect the performance of the dough. But that doesn't mean that I will stop trying to find out what causes the spotting.

Peter

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Re: Spotty Dough from a Week Ago
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2013, 07:07:47 PM »

The good news is that the spotting is harmless and does not affect the performance of the dough. But that doesn't mean that I will stop trying to find out what causes the spotting.

Peter

Peter,

I do know spotting is harmless and does not affect the performance of the dough.  You can keep trying to find out what causes that spotting but after I saw that spotting on a one day cold fermented dough ball I think I have given up on trying to find out why that happened.

Norma