Author Topic: Cornice getting too big  (Read 1226 times)

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Offline jcovey713

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Cornice getting too big
« on: September 27, 2013, 01:36:27 PM »
Hello Pizza Experts,

I am having some trouble with my NY Style pizza cornices. I am using a Blackstone oven, baking at 650 degs. The cornices are getting too big. (Sorry I don't have a photo) The crust flavor is there, everything is great...the crust is just puffing up too much at the edge. I am using an Ischia starter recipe that I found from Pete-zza. One thing that may have happened is that the dough over-fermented at room temperature. It got really puffy in the containers. Would that cause the cornice to puff up? When I turn out the dough, I am pressing down pretty close, if not all the way to the edge to make sure all excess gas is out. I also put my sauce pretty close to the edge, maybe I could do it even closer to the edge. Here is my procedure:

Dough Preferment (Day before baking)
- ½ cup (135 g) recently fed (2-3 hours after feeding) sourdough starter
- 85 g hi gluten flour
- 71 g 85-90 deg F water

:: Combine in a bowl and mix together to achieve a somewhat thick, dough-like consistency.
:: Lightly cover the bowl and set on countertop overnight

Day of Baking
- 100% high-gluten flour
- 63% water
- 1.75% salt
- 1% olive oil
- 20% dough preferment

:: By the next morning the dough preferment should almost triple in volume
:: Combine the salt and water and dissolve salt.
:: Gradually add the flour and preferment
:: Add the olive oil
:: Knead on KitchenAid mixer speed “Stir” for about 8 minutes
:: Shape into a round, smooth ball, oil it lightly and flatten it into a disk
:: Place in round, transparent straight sided container and cover loosely with a lid
:: Let rest at room temperature for 9-10 hours
:: About 30 mins before baking, reball dough and let rest.
:: Shape and stretch
:: Dock dough
:: Bake at 550+ deg F (650/690 on blackstone)
:: Bake time is about 4.5 mins

Thank you for any help. 


Offline chasenpse

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 02:40:49 PM »
I wish I had your problem, my pies usually don't get enough rise! Couple of questions - What hydration is your starter? How much % starter is used in the final dough? Can you give us your recipe in weights? 291G of preferment could be too much or too little depending on what you consider 100%.

edit - just saw the last part regarding your preferment. I'm no expert but I've been told 20% is a massive amount of starter, if I assume yours is at 100% after you add the 85G flour and 71G water you're at about 90% hydration. If your starter is as active as you say it is 10% should do your dough justice. TXCraig uses less than 2% and still gets great results, I'd say trust your starter and let it run its course.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 02:46:41 PM by chasenpse »
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 03:09:18 PM »
The easiest way to reduce it is to sauce farther out.

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2013, 03:16:10 PM »
I kind of like a puffy edge, but I know not everyone does.  A photo would be interesting and helpful here.  I guess I would just say flatten the edges even more. I guess you could even take a roller to them if they are bothering you. TScarborough's idea about saucing to the edge is a good one too.

Offline jcovey713

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 07:47:10 PM »
IngredientBaker's %Weight (grams)
Flour100.00%251.6
Water63.00%   158.5
Oil1.00%2.5
Salt1.75%4.4
Starter20.00%   50.3
Total185.75%467.39

2% bowl residue makes it about a 460 gram ball.

My starter is 100% hydration.

I agree that maybe going down to 10% starter may be a good thing to try. I will try to sauce out to the edge more as well. My sauce definitely gets a lot lighter at the edge.

Thanks for everyone's advice!

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 10:35:41 AM »
I gotta see this GIGANTIC cornice :o . Send pics, please!


Mark
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Offline Tannerwooden

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 10:41:16 AM »
There is a local pizza place here in Corvallis, OR called, "Cirello's." The pizza is pretty good. Not life changing or anything.

Anyway, using their dough hook, they tap down the cornice about 3/4 of the way through baking sometimes. I think that it depends on how much the dough has risen that day and when they are baking because I don't always see them do this.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:42:19 PM by Tannerwooden »

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 10:42:25 AM »
The easiest way to reduce it is to sauce farther out.

This is very good advice.  Your recipe looks fine just sauce a little closer to the edge.

Offline jcovey713

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 10:50:15 AM »
So I made my pizza dough again using the same recipe and method as I described above. I did follow the advice to bring the sauce out farther to the edge. It didn't seem to work. I still got a rather big cornice. The one good thing is that the crust is so tasty. Could it be that my sauce consistency is too thin? Maybe I do need to decrease my starter amount. Thanks for any advice.

Offline JD

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 11:01:11 AM »
I wouldn't reduce the starter. You're basically taking a properly fermented dough, and forcing it to be under fermented.

Even with all your attempts to reduce a puffy cornice by docking/saucing/etc etc, your picture shows you make a very thick pizza. If you stretch it out much thinner and then apply all your puffy-reducing-treatments, you will probably have better luck.




Josh


Online mitchjg

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 11:27:53 AM »
IngredientBaker's %Weight (grams)
Flour100.00%251.6
Water63.00%   158.5
Oil1.00%2.5
Salt1.75%4.4
Starter20.00%   50.3
Total185.75%467.39

2% bowl residue makes it about a 460 gram ball.

My starter is 100% hydration.

I agree that maybe going down to 10% starter may be a good thing to try. I will try to sauce out to the edge more as well. My sauce definitely gets a lot lighter at the edge.

Thanks for everyone's advice!

Could you provide the link to the original recipe (from Peter) you followed?

Offline jcovey713

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Offline chasenpse

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Re: Cornice getting too big
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2013, 12:10:50 PM »
I'm a little confused here, are you talking about reducing the rise in your cornicione or trying to make your toppings closer to the edge of your pie? If it's the latter maybe the issue is how you're forming your skins. Using your fingertips, press down near the middle of your dough and start working your way towards the edge while rotating it slightly to start forming your skin and cornicionne. Take a look here -

http://pizza.about.com/od/PizzaTechniques/ss/How-To-Hand-stretch-Pizza-Dough_3.htm

I believe using this technique will give you a thinner crust pizza without sacrificing the cornicione, you can get pretty close to the edge of your dough and still have a nice edge.

Edit: Here's a post from Scott123 that includes a video of what I'm trying to explain, I recommend watching how Tony forms his skin - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27591.msg279395.html#msg279395 Lastly, definitely don't use a pin. You'll squish out any co2 and destroy the structure that your little yeastlings worked so hard to create!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 12:30:52 PM by chasenpse »
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